Phoenix Sorcerer / Oracle build


Silver Crusade

Hello valued brains trust.

A couple months ago I was reading a post about a healer type build using the Sorcerer Phoenix bloodline multiclassed with Oracle. I am interested in making a character similar to this but cannot really seem to make one I think is ... worthwhile.

The usual popular methods to increase fire damage were used coupled with feats to increase healing like Fey Foundling and Fast Healer.

I know in the post I read the build seemed quite effective, but I cannot seem to find the post I was reading. The oracle level/levels were to gain access to life link I think.

Anyway, has anyone built a character like this before? Was it fun to play?

I am thinking of skipping Oracle completely, half-orc for the +1/2 damage to fire spell favored class bonus and potentially orc bloodline crossblooded archetype.

Yeah I’ve given this kind of build some thought. The build I came up with was half-orc crossblooded sorcerer with with the Phoenix and Elemental(fire) bloodlines (the Elemental bloodline for the ability to change any spell that deals an elemental damage type to fire). I also went with variant multiclass wizard with the admixture school to gain a familiar and add half your class level damage to evocation spells. The half-orc favored class bonus to add half level to damage as well. Trade your first level bloodline power in for the Blood Havoc bloodline mutation to get +1 damage per die to damage. With this build you can cast ray of frost with fire damage and deal 20+ damage by level 20 or half that in healing (free healing yay). I also took the magical lineage trait to reduce the cost of metamagic by one for Burning Hands and took Intensified Spell to increase Burning Hands to a max of 10d4 damage. With all your bonuses to fire you can basically use burning hands as a very localized Channel Positive Energy. At later levels when you get a decent fort save you can take the Flumefire Rage feat to get another +1 damage per die to your fire spells. This kind of build is great as an in-combat or out of combat healer that can also deal quite a lot of fire damage to enemies as well. You won’t get a lot of the typical healer type spells but if you want to be able to recover a lot of HP or dish out some hurt this kind of build works pretty well.

Use the solar bloodline instead of the orc. It gives you the same damage bonus, but friend of fire gives you fire resistance and adds 1 per die to healing effects that you are the target. If you also have Fey Foundling that would be 3 extra points per die.

I've toyed around with the concept quite a bit (You can see some of the specifics in this thread) except I used Arcanist but with a dip into sorcerer. If you want to use Oracle, it might just be easier to use the variant multi class options to pick up Oracle revelations so you don't hurt your spellcasting (though your feats will take a hit).

Silver Crusade

Thanks for your responses guys.

We are pretty much using the PFS rules for what is available for character creation so some of the stuff, like Blood Havoc and Flumefire rage, will not be available.

I have not used the variant multiclass rules yet, I may need to ask the GM if that is an option. It may be worth exploring.

I was toying around with the character over the weekend and with a dip into Oracle and the Crossblooded archetype it did not even have a 3rd level spell known by 7th level. I could use those 3rd level slots to cast lower level spells but it seems like it would be pretty damn boring to play. Especially if fighting enemies with fire resistance/immunities.

Everyone has their own preferences and expectations on what is 'boring' or not. Personally, I find the encounters with fire resistance/immunities more of a challenge to be overcome than a barrier to my enjoyment of play.

For example, if you are worried about resistances for the small fraction of time you'll be facing those specific monsters, look into getting a metamagic rod for elemental spell, or benthic spell, so that you can shift the elemental types and still do respectable damage. Or shift your focus for that one fight to something else. Purchase some scrolls to make use of during those times, or a wand that you can make use of (or invest in use magic device). It is always a good idea to invest in other places you can focus on, rather than hyper focus in one area in particular. You don't end up 'crippled' for a single fight because of it.

wherever theorycrafters go you have to consider in game practicality, GM palatability, and a dash of game sense & style. LoL, most of those went out the window with the build.

Life Oracles with sharing HPs is usually the way 'uber healers' go.

It's hard to have arcane offense and healing in the same meat-bag. Usually alchemist with a healing tumor is the path but it really focuses on just the PC and not other PCs. Another route is a wizard with a protector familiar (more bang less heal) which again is mostly about the PC and not the party.

Azothath wrote:
It's hard to have arcane offense and healing in the same meat-bag.

Phoenix Bloodline with Magic Trick: Fireball. Turn your ridiculous levels of aoe fire damage into ridiculous levels of aoe healing.

MargarineMeadow wrote:
Azothath wrote:
It's hard to have arcane offense and healing in the same meat-bag.
Phoenix Bloodline with Magic Trick: Fireball. Turn your ridiculous levels of aoe fire damage into ridiculous levels of aoe healing.

Phoenix bloodline

Bloodline Arcana: When casting any spell that deals fire damage, you can instead heal your targets. The spell deals no damage, and living creatures affected by the spell instead regain a number of hit points equal to half the fire damage the spell would normally deal.
and the save? Hopefully they don't have fire resistance or ER(energy resistance) fire.
Don't get me wrong, it's a very nice ability. It is half or quarter healing if they make a save.

Magic Trick (costs a feat)
9th level and a flask of alchemist's fire you can possibly heal for half and then burn people with fire who then want to make the save for only half healing(effectively one eighth) to avoid catching on fire and actually burning, interesting.
6th level you can cluster some fireballs and force a save for less healing.
I see there may be some irony to that term ridiculous.

on a more serious note - is this for a Home Game or PFS(Organized Play) as the latter is more generic & balanced and has a lot of restrictions.

Oracles are good but they need a careful choice of Revelation and avoid a bad Curse then they run off the Divine Clr/Orcl spell list which is more limited than the Arcane Sor/Wiz list. Life Oracles I've seen in play tended to be pure support types that hung out in the back as they didn't have many effective combat routines, mainly party buffers and HP batteries/adjusters. It is a very effective and focused party support role and you have to like that kind of role.

Sorcerers have good spell slots and run off the Arcane Sor/Wiz list. Sadly their class skills and most ability score arrays tend to limit skill ranks. They also pay more for spell slot storage and have more trouble with item activation due to the skill rank issue and relying on UMD. They have better weapon choices than a Wizard but suffer the same low BAB, martial builds need most of their class level in a martial class.
Several strong bloodlines; Arcane & Sage, Draconic & Chromatic/Esoteric, Fey & Sylvan, Phoenix, Psychic. I'd avoid Crossblooded.
Strong archetypes: Razmiran Priest, Tattooed Sorcerer.
Being a sorcerer is easier than running a wizard mainly as you don't have the brain strain of daily memorization and managing your spells which takes expertise on the spells themselves and their interactions. Your high Cha leads to good bumps on social skills so players focus here.

Multiclassing is questionable with full casters. It can be done to fill in the weaknesses of the classes but you drop a level or so in spell level access which IS a power hit.
Accessing another spell list usually involves multiclassing, possibly feats, or expensive magic items. As sorcerers have limited spells race access like Samsaran don't help much as you need a Ring to make it work.
IF you are seriously thinking about multiclassing I'd look at Mage-Killer build as it blends monk with wizard. Samsaran Mythic Past Lives with let you pick up healing from the Witch spell list and naturally use wands of Cure Light Wounds.
Personally just dipping into Oracle and picking up their curse isn't worth it. Being an Oracle and dipping into Paladin IS worth it or dipping into Sorcerer for their spell list for item activation may be worth it.

Class Guides on ZG
Items that can save you thread

Azothath wrote:
on a more serious note - ...

so a Home game with PFS rules as boundaries. (from above)

VMC is out then.

IF you decide to go Sor then it's bloodline & race, than a Familiar & Impv'd Familiar feat later. A Save boost is probably best at first. I favor Faerie Dragon & Soulbound doll as wand activation is a concern for helpers. I avoid Evil familiars as their ulterior motives may surface if you're dying.

A note on the Phoenix bloodline healing. When choosing to heal your allies I believe you are able to voluntarily fail the save for half so you wouldn’t have to be reduced to quarter damage as healing.

Trokarr wrote:
A note on the Phoenix bloodline healing. When choosing to heal your allies I believe you are able to voluntarily fail the save for half so you wouldn’t have to be reduced to quarter damage as healing.

Yes, usually creatures can voluntarily fail their save and GMs don't have a problem with that. The problem is knowing when to do that as usually it involves a Spellcraft check or the caster verbally informing observers in the area (which risks foes diving into the AoE). It's a bit too much metagaming to just say creatures "know". Sometimes the wording of an ability demands an attempt (and I believe it's poor wording) but RAW is what it is sometimes.

I believe the healing effect only applies to the instantaneous fire effect so any duration or follow up is just doing damage as usual. This is supported by the Org Play Campaign Clarifications (who likely got direction from product developers). Product developers & editors add their corrections in the Product Discussion thread.
IMO the process would be to determine the damage an affected creature will take after protections THEN convert that into healing. Fire is the most common protection and protective spells can't differentiate as it is a Fire effect. The wording supports that view but it is a bit clumsy as the sentence lead in if deleted makes it clearer and seemed to be an edit to change tense/case. It is more a topic for the Rules forum.

Lastly there's the statistics of it all. I didn't want to get into that as then I would be viewed as too critical. In general the game attempts to keep intsa-healing out of the hands of arcane casters (Witch is the exception) so I think it's a good ability added to PF1 far too late.

I was being humorous in my post as the case was rather overstated and I didn't want to come off as too critical as I was just poking some holes in a balloon. Conveying tone in text is a bit tricky. I totally understand the sparkly effect of some abilities and realize it means you need to re-read and review it before the winds of your enthusiasm blow your ship into troubled waters.

Overall the two sources (Heroes of G, Chronicles of Lgnd) are excellent PPC soft covers. I'd only wished they'd have come out 5-6 yrs earlier. As PPC GMs should exercise caution as the line is creative and is known to contain problematic RAW.

Knowing when to eat the fireball, rather than trying to dodge it, is as simple as the caster using a free action "Incoming!" (or insert your own phrase) to signal to the group. And you can avoid healing enemies through selective spell metamagic (a rod or feat), magic trick (fireball) scuplt spell, and a number of other ways.

To be clear, once the fire spell is converted into healing, it is no longer dealing Fire damage. It isn't dealing damage at all. Protection from energy won't apply. People like to argue over the order of operations, but those usually are settled in the player's favor. Player casts spell, the energy is converted into healing, and the spell is delivered.

As I mentioned before, I toyed around with the concept quite a bit before. What I failed to mention is that I do have a character that is built around healing in this manner in a mythic game (they are now 15th level and tier 7). The players in the game are also gestalt. This character is not, and is built with NPC elite ability scores. To date, their ability to heal, spread around temporary HP, and nuke the enemies has never been found wanting.

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