I have been considering beginning the Pathfinder Kingmaker Adventure Path after a four year long hiatus on these boards. It appears the first book is free on Roll 20, and let us face it, 95% of PbP APs don't even make it to the second book.
Here is a link to one of my old APs I ran so you can see my previous style. Even with carefully selected players it only lasted six months, so attrition is real even among the best and most committed. Six month AP to level 3
I am very familiar with Pathfinder 1E, and after going through the Pathfinder 2E playtest I was not blown away. But, 1E to 2E PF is much better than the move from D&D 3.5 to 4th edition. I am more disappointed that I own many APs set in Pathfinder 1E that are now in a legacy game system, but enough ranting.....
Let me know if you are interested in playing the Kingmaker AP, can post once per weekday at the minimum, and have or can get a Roll 20 account. I would be encouraged if you can link a PbP game of long duration on these forums, and I do like to reward game masters who have held a long game together on these forums by giving them priority to play as I know how hard it is to keep a PbP game together long term.
So, those interested in possibly joining me in the Sandbox known as Kingmaker, please let me know your interest level and if you would prefer 1E or 2E pathfinder. This would involve a commitment to post once per weekday, probably do combats on Roll 20, and put up with an old school DM. If anyone is looking for a committed player for any Pathfinder APs, look no farther, the fun to work ratio as a player is higher for me, but only because the denominator of that ratio is so much lower!!
If we somehow move to the second book, I have no problems springing for the $100 on Roll 20. I don't think any players would have to pay (if you know the definitive answer to this, feel free to chime in).
Kingmaker still generates plenty of interest. You won't have a problem from that angle.
I prefer 1st Ed.
The players do not have to also purchase the libraries in Roll20, only the GM. Just like a paid GM account brings benefits to everyone at the Roll20 table whether any of the players have paid accounts or not. I'm not convinced those benefits are major benefits.
Kingmaker tends to call to some builds consistently (Aldori dueling sword use is very common, for instance), so you may want to consider discussing that in your character generation specifics.
I've always been curious how to make Kingmaker (in particular) work with the Nation-Building "mini-game" part of it. It seems to me that most parties would struggle with this in real life, let alone Play by Post. How do you intend to make this work?
Assuming a good method for handling that, I'd be interested in putting together a PC potentially. Kingmaker is one of the only APs I haven't played at all...
The odds are against Book 2. I have been told I take way too many new players, but Painlord has convinced me it is a good idea to go with one or two new players. You can’t get a posting history if someone doesn’t take a chance on you at the beginning.
But kingdom development is a problem we hope to address in the elusive book 2!
Also returning after a ridiculously long hiatus, some 3 years or so.
I’ve never played or run 2E, but I was a 1st edition superscriber once upon a time, and only failed to get the last year of 1st’s books due to hard financial times.
I have no preference per se, but I am most familiar with 1st obviously. I only own 2nd Core and Bestiary, so I at least can build a basic character and look up rules, ha!
Of my PbP forays, here are a couple of my favorite runs:
- Suicide Squad Golarion style My character is Atma Leere
- Serpent’s Skull I was Adara
I’ll be honest and say I’ve both run and played Kingmaker, but it’s never played the same and most times the GMs (including me) changed and swapped encounters and enemies all the time in that AP, so I make zero assumptions and very pointedly eschew all meta gaming. I’m huge into roleplaying my character even to my own detriment if the scene calls for it. I also have a tendency to make long posts which I’m sure you’ll see if you check out those threads.
I hope what you’re hearing from everyone helps you make the decision that will get you excited and choose what interests you most.
Thanks for the input pinvendor.
Sorry Adara succumbed to the loss of momentum curse and game cancellation. I wonder if a rerecruit would have worked there. I haven’t tried and feel if you aren’t in chapter 2 of an AP it is just best to start over with a completely new start.
I am always curious when players stop posting and the GM cancels the game or a player makes the I am withdrawing announcement if they know the consequences. I also wonder if players realize an AP is a multi year commitment when they apply. The social contract in a PbP game seems much less binding than for tabletop.
If we move to recruitment you are in pinvendor. The Adara run suffices as a good example of honoring a PbP social contract.
The social contract in a PbP game is no less binding than it is for a tabletop.
After school, how many tabeltop groups keep playing for 3 years? With nobody leaving? How many make it a year?
The issue is not the intent or dedication. The issue is that given a long enough timeline life will ALWAYS interfere.
The issue is not whether or not the players are dedicated to the game, the issue is that dedication to a purely leisure activity will be over-ridden by obligations. The longer the timeline, the more obligations that will show up and demand attention. That's just life.
Now, are there players who choose to back out for other reasons? Absolutely. Here on the boards I was in one game where the entire rest of the table jumped on me for trying to educate another of the players. Turns out they all know each other in the physical world and were trying to expand the one individual's experience with other people. For a week they were going off about how I wasn't nice enough to her (I treated her like a peer, not like a child, which is what they seemed to expect.) until I told them that they had made it clear a week earlier they didn't want me at the table . . .. Every time you go to form a new group, risks of that kind of miscommunication exist, along with the risks that the play styles won't be compatible. The guy playing a Paladin who got angry when the GM took his Paladinhood for slaughtering unarmed and non-combatant goblin children fleeing a fire he had helped set is a perfect example of incompatible playstyles.
Those are all good points hustonj, I guess I always thought a 15 minute commitment to post daily was less onerous than a single long weekend gaming session our tabletop groups typically prefer. obviously as you experienced, in person commitments are stronger than virtual ones.
Nevertheless, the format will definitely be Pathfinder 1E. I am probably going to run a short prequel to get the group to level 2 performing a service for House Lebeda in Brevoy. The reward will be the charter to settle a new kingdom, and my thoughts are a level 2 start in Kingmaker is not a bad idea. That will allow the group to get to know each other and do what in my engineering world we call reliability/growth testing. Most hardware and software fail in the first few cycles and new designs are run in heated shock vibration chamber to weed out infant mortality failures.
After our short sprint to second level we can consider if we want to continue or recruit the necessary characters to continue. I am a large fan of player input, so would appreciate if this seems like a good idea. I would like to do anything possible to break the chain of AP starts that never make it to Book 2.
Thing is, for most PbP players, there isn't ONE game. So it isn't a 15 minute tag. It is 2 or 3 or 7 15 minute tags.
You can't think of the game as an island existing outside of anything else. It is part of a larger system, a larger set of activities each person is involved in, that may or may not overlap in other ways.
As for your idea about how to get started? Shouldn't hurt. Good opportunity to get a feel for how people mesh. Can't see that it should be a significant impact to the overall advancement. Especially not if you choose milestone advancement instead of tracking XP.
Hey, GM Tribute, welcome back! We crossed paths in 'Brvheart's' Rappan Athuk game. I'd be interested in Kingmaker using PF 1 rules; once a day posting and the Roll 20 is not an issue.
Waves at "hustonj"
Thing is, for most PbP players, there isn't ONE game. So it isn't a 15 minute tag. It is 2 or 3 or 7 15 minute tags.
Curious conversation, I feel like I'm coming in in the middle of it so I will resist the urge to comment :)
Doing a short prequel is really a good idea, let's folks get to know each others playing style a little. If you decide to run it, will you make this the recruitment thread or start a new one?
I'm interested in the 2e version. I can post more than once a day, if need be.
I actually own the entirety of the new version of 2E Kingmaker on Roll20, so no extra money from anyone else would need to be spent on it. (I bought it to use with a personal friend group via the 5e conversion, but interpersonal issues over the holidays have...uh...splintered said friend group, hopefully temporarily, so it's sitting there totally unused for the moment. >_<)
EDIT: Oh, I just read you've settled on doing the 1E version. I've no interested in learning the older edition, so I guess I'll wish you guys luck with it. Darn.
I've done lots of Play-by-Post, mostly on the Giant in the Playgrounds and MythWeavers forums, and certainly agree that the social-commitment is of utmost importance. The folks I usually play with actually consider it first before any submissions are even considered - new players aren't automatically out, but their presence has to be part of planning...
If selections begin and our history matters, I will share links to my profiles on those sites to establish my "pedigree." Until then, I strongly agree with discussions of that sort - the more people who understand this the more we have good gaming experiences with PbP.
PF1e sounds great to me and I would totally consider submitting a PC to join...will have to decide what sort of character to build...
Hey Robert Henry, good to see you again!!
And you need not submit anything, we did go down the well together and held it together as much as we could!!
30K posts on the boards pretty much speaks for itself. Same for hustonj--the SKulls and Shackles run for Terry. I would be honored to have you both in any game of mine.
I would hope to get four veteran players and bring along two newer players it to give them a chance. I have found newer players have a 60% chance of lasting a month. And that would be OK.
So, pinvendor hustonj and Robert Henry have shown interest and commitment to other games. When I do a recruitment they currently have priority.
And another drawback to 2E Pathfinder is it is less likely to draw people with a good posting history, so the 1E decision is final.
Thank you, GM Tribute, I appreciate the acknowledgment.
To add my own two cents to the sub-conversation going on, one challenge can also arise from staying true to your character. I’ve run into moments where I personally struggled to roleplay due to the scene. Perhaps due to a previous post announcing my character’s disinterest in the current situation or a decision not to get involved in other characters’ roleplay which hasn’t ended yet.
In a sense, I’ve already said all I need to say while I’m waiting for the scene to change. Certainly not a main driver for a game coming to an end, I’m not saying that. But definitely something that has caused my posting to slow down on occasion. Not having anything to add to the scene in a meaningful way seems to stall me once in a while. On the other hand, if posts are flying and the game is moving at a brisk pace, very usually not a problem to find something to contribute.
Heh, if this is going by recommendations, I've played with both Robert Henry and HustonJ in a couple of campaigns, and I think they'll both give me a reasonably good reference wrt to commitment.
One Post a day is not a problem for me, but I have a question about "do combats on Roll 20"; do you want us all to sign in together for a fight and do it as a live chat, or will we just be using Roll20 as a map-server and will do it post by post here?
Kingmaker was before I got the APs, I would only link to maps on Roll 20 for combat and use Roll20 as a combat aide. I may just see if I can turn them into images and move them over. Now that we decided on 1E, the connection to Roll 20 is even more unnecessary. And I would run two groups if there is a strong interest.
Just seeing if my google docs account still works and links.
If so, will probably use google maps and forget about Roll20. Let me know if it opens, my google doc experience may be rusty.
Oleg’s is viable from my click.
The benefit to using Roll20 for me was the ease of updating locations and what not. If your Google doc is a static image, we would have to rely on you to update positioning and terrain changes instead of using Roll20’s player controls which should also confirm distance allowed, etc.
I loved Roll20 when I was GMing and all my players could update their tokens on their own time when they posted