Risque Content and Pathfinder 3PPs


Community Use


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So, every now and then, a new Discourse pops up over Pathfinder becoming "kid-friendly". Some people like it, and some people don't. When these arguments start up, there's a very common defense used to counter those who don't like the change: "Calm down. There's always third-party content."

This, to me, always made sense. Sure, maybe there will be fewer "canon" adventurers featuring shopkeeper's daughters and the sort, but people who like their fantasy a little on the grittier or raunchier side can just buy from third-party publishers and still have a ton of fun.

However, I've recently noticed a clause that may be intended to tell us that this isn't something third parties are intended to provide.

Pathfinder's Second Edition Compatibility License wrote:
You must use your best efforts to preserve the high standard of our trademarks. You may not use this License for material that the general public would classify as 'adult content,' offensive, or inappropriate for minors.

So, with the disclaimer that I am running with my personal interpretation of this paragraph, which could be wrong, here are five points I want to express while I look for a clarification.

1. Family-Friendly Paizo is Not a Bad Thing
I think it's ultimately a good thing that a family can grab some dice, roll up some characters and have fun with a wonderful game like Pathfinder without having to worry. I think moving away from the more NSFW content was a good move for Paizo. Paizo content is too center-stage, and moreover, if Paizo writers don't want to write NSFW content, that's totally fair!

At the same time...

2. Risque TTRPG Content is Not Bad, Either
So, full disclosure--I've been writing erotica for a living for nearly a decade at this point. I have a lot of sex worker colleagues and friends. Risque content, whether it's openly XXX-rated or just a little inappropriate for kids to see, is a valid art form that requires skill and artistic integrity just like any other. It should not be looked down upon or degraded simply for focusing on expressions of passion and intimacy. Those things are part of the human experience just as much as grief and violence.

Some people enjoy featuring varying levels of NSFW content in their games. That's valid, and there's nothing wrong with it. If it's not for you, that's totally cool and also super valid! Nobody should ever feel pressured into engaging with adult-only content. But we that doesn't mean it's bad.

I have a lot of colleagues who've been driven off of platforms and into the shadows of obscure less safe websites, had their incomes sliced open and sometimes outright stolen, because--say it with me--Our Society Treats Sex Workers Badly. I'm a little anxious about working hard to design something, publishing it, and finding it taken down within a week because it reminded someone too much of rope play.

3. Of Course Safeguards Are Important
I want to get ahead of this one. Yes, obviously, anyone publishing NSFW gaming content should be mindful of who is going to see it. Warnings should be included, at bare minimum, and it should be made very clear that it's not for children. Content that outright endorses abuse should also obviously not be included, but that's already more-or-less covered by other facets of Pathfinder's license.

Also, while I did mention XXX ratings, that's not really what I'm talking about here. Consider this conversation to mainly be about R-rated and "heavily suggestive" content for now. Basically, anything you wouldn't want a kid to see.

4. Not All Media Has to be Kid-Friendly
NSFW content at all levels has the potential to spark important conversations, to get people thinking about important concepts, to help people discover things about themselves or express facets of their identity that society does not treat well (hi, ace bisexual trans girl here), or just to, you know, have fun. The idea that adult-only content should be suppressed nearly out of existence because a minor might hypothetically ignore multiple warnings and lie about their age to access it is... not healthy, but unfortunately not that uncommon.

As an asexual person, I often feel really weird discussing my sexuality. It's actually very difficult to explain the complex nuances of the ace spectrum without getting a little bit NSFW. That's part of why this issue is important to me.

5. This Isn't a Demand, and I Don't Know How Strictly the Rule is Enforced, Anyways
At this time, I don't know the legal situation Paizo would be in with allowing NSFW content. I also don't know how strict the policy is--does it only apply to outright pornography, or does it also extend to content that alludes to sex acts or kinks?

Obviously, succubi exist in PF2. Is that level of implication (offering rules for gaming groups to include "acts of passion" that may be nonconsensual) the hard limit? Or are succubi just grandfathered in, and third-party products would be held to a higher standard?

At this time, I just want to express my opinion about the issue, and provide a safe and healthy environment for people to air their thoughts about it as well. I'd like it to be known that I would consider a strict application of the rule to be an unnecessary restriction--one that's not healthy for artistic and personal expression. Again, if that's not how the rule is enforced, cool! I'm just looking for clarification.

If it is the case, and it can change, I personally believe it should. With as violent a game as Pathfinder is, it seems a little silly for some level of sexuality to not have an outlet. Third-party publishing is perfect for that--it's safely distanced from Paizo and requires more active effort to track down.

To anyone who wants to engage, please be civil and try to assume good faith of others. This is obviously a hot topic that could get dicey if we don't treat each other with respect and curiosity.


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Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry for how long this went. I got paranoid that this thread would start big arguments and wanted to cover my bases, only to realize that Community Use threads don't show up in the standard Flattened forum view anyways.

Having looked at the current rules out there, I'm not super worried. I just really would like the clarification. :)


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Actually, I'm looking at the subforum activity and as near as I can tell, this place doesn't seem to be actively maintained at all. That's really weird. I'm going to request to move this to PF2 General Discussion, loathe as I am to add another potential argument to that subforum right now.


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Kobold Catgirl wrote:

only to realize that Community Use threads don't show up in the standard Flattened forum view anyways.

Alexa how do I delete embarrassing evidence that I forgot how the hide subforum feature works

Dark Archive

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As the super prude, I actually completely agree with the opening post :'D

Like I find NSFW content extremely squicky especially in public, but I definitely think its something that has right and purpose to exist and that lack of SFW exploration of sexual content is just contributing to people making huger deal out of what is essentially rather mundane topic. Like being willing to take part in conversation involving the matter at all

(aka that is how you make people be prude and become debilitated about talking about sexual matters at all :'D )


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[Writes thesis about how sex was everywhere in the medieval and renaissance time periods Paizo models its world after and how it wasn't until the Victorian era several hundred years later that people became as prudish about sex which would be objectively harmful to do the same, especially in a world where there are several prominent sexual deities about opening up and acceptance for them to be pushed to the side, all of which probably could have been explained as a single sentence.]


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Absolutely! And heck, while I do think Pathfinder moving away from adult content was the right move, being a bit grittier and edgier than D&D was always kind of Pathfinder's thing. Golarion in particular is not meant to be a prudish world. The main elven goddess is literally the goddess of lust!

I'm all for removing/minimizing content that needlessly exploits the suffering of others, but, well, we're sort of talking about the exact opposite here. That sort of Golarion should at least always be available in third-party products.

Dark Archive

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Its also kinda hard to say what "adult content" means in this case. Like, is council of thieves now considered to contain NSFW adult content because it has mention of risque situations? Or does adult content in this case mean explicitly erotica and not just mentioning sexual situations?


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Yeah, like, does a "female-presenting nipple" trip the filter? How about a male-presenting nipple?


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

The "general public" part of the clause seems to imply that, in the event of a disagreement, the matter would have to go to the "reasonable person" standard. In other words, a jury.

Of course, there is the question of what general public jurisdiction they're referring to.

I don't see this ever being used to sanction "rescue the shopkeeper's daughter" or "time to go clean out the local slavers" content though. Or even refusing to publish a Clyde Caldwell cover.

I definitely can see it ensuring we'll never see a Lamentations of the Flame Princess adaptation for PF2e though. (Not that there was ever a chance in Hell of that)

There's also a lot that can be implied through summary that would not constitute adult content.

If I write in a splat

"...This person and the blacksmith are currently carrying on a torrid affair that they may be caught in the middle of at night."

That leaves a lot of discretion up to a GM as to what they want to describe, whereas if I put in a text block of...

"...walking up to the house, in an upstairs window you see the silhouette of two figures eclipsing candle-light, clearly in the middle of an intimate session in a bedroom, one atop the other, making the beast with two backs, etc....."

...that could be construed as marketing adult content, even if it's only a textual aid.


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Yeah, all this ambiguity is sort of the problem. "I know it when I see it" has never been a good standard.

Also, to be clear, I am directly referencing Shayliss, from Rise of the Runelords, with "the shopkeeper's daughter". I'm not actually familiar with Lamentations of the Flame Princess, so I don't want to comment that and risk saying something foolish.

Implications through summary are all well and good, it's fine if that's someone's preference, but "wink-wink, nudge-nudge" shouldn't be the only way to talk about adult subjects in Pathfinder. It's incredibly damaging, in fact, to censor anything more explicit when it's in publications already marked as adults-only. It suggests that even consenting adults should be ashamed to associate with sexuality, and that, by extension, sex work is something sex workers should be ashamed of and marginalized for.

Dark Archive

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I've never really commented on it since Shayliss' development in sandpoint campaign setting book seems to be popular, but it does kinda read as sex negative to me.

Either way, pretty much every pathfinder tales book i've read seems to include at least one character having kinky sex with another one <_< Does that mean that is not crossing line of "adult content"?


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You know, I don't necessarily disagree, but I kind of think whether or not it's sex-negative is beside the point. Sometimes content is messy and complicated. What reads as exploiting trauma to one reader reads as cathartic and honest to another. One person might read the Shayliss encounter as sex-negative, while another might read it as a darkly humorous acknowledgement of how women's sexuality is policed by the rest of the world, or whatever. I don't think we should try to police that sort of thing. Any rule we try to come up with to restrict "bad" content will inevitably catch good-faith content in the crossfire. It's not worth it.


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I haven't played 2e, never will, but apparently they are at least releasing Kingmaker again for 1e as well (correct me if I'm wrong) with the whole Owlcat changes. I know in the CRPG it's just never something that comes up because in the original KM it was one of those "only the GM will ever know this" lines, so it will be telling to see what happens to the Kressle intentionally rhyming "Their thought's turned from r- to escape." line.

On one hand, completely unnecessary line that probably was only meant to be page filler anyway, on the other, one that doesn't really offensively manifest to the players, and on yet another, one that when put into the greater context is imo more empowering than offensive for the use of the word alone (and again can be easily excised if an individual knows it would be a problem for a player). And even in later books, King Irovetti is characterized basically as a sometimes rapey sometimes not womanizer (who also boinks a snake lady he's supposedly married to), but the point is risque stuff abounds in his castle room descriptions. So if any of this stuff is removed, there's becomes at least a clear and hard line of what they don't want from previous editions, whether or not anyone can just write in or out things in their own games.


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Kobold Catgirl wrote:

Yeah, all this ambiguity is sort of the problem. "I know it when I see it" has never been a good standard.

Also, to be clear, I am directly referencing Shayliss, from Rise of the Runelords, with "the shopkeeper's daughter". I'm not actually familiar with Lamentations of the Flame Princess, so I don't want to comment that and risk saying something foolish.

Implications through summary are all well and good, it's fine if that's someone's preference, but "wink-wink, nudge-nudge" shouldn't be the only way to talk about adult subjects in Pathfinder. It's incredibly damaging, in fact, to censor anything more explicit when it's in publications already marked as adults-only. It suggests that even consenting adults should be ashamed to associate with sexuality, and that, by extension, sex work is something sex workers should be ashamed of and marginalized for.

I get that "I know it when I see it" has never been a good standard, but it's really absurdly hard to come up with better ones that don't both ban a huge amount of stuff they'd have no problem with and allow some they'd really want to block through on a technicality.

You can ban specific words, but one can describe sex scenes in explicit detail without using any words normally considered obscene.


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Okay, so genuinely, and I realize that this may be a hard sell for some people, what is the harm in that if it's in a properly-labeled publication? I could point you towards a lot of NSFW webcomics very obviously based on D&D that haven't hurt D&D's branding one bit. There is artistic value in adult content that deserves to be protected.


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Kobold Catgirl wrote:
Okay, so genuinely, and I realize that this may be a hard sell for some people, what is the harm in that if it's in a properly-labeled publication? I could point you towards a lot of NSFW webcomics very obviously based on D&D that haven't hurt D&D's branding one bit. There is artistic value in adult content that deserves to be protected.

And that's a fair argument as well.

Though the question of what needs to be restricted to "adult labelled" publications bring up the same problems of definition.

Also, my possibly poor understanding of the Compatibility License we're talking about here is that it's not just for "very obviously based on PF", but for material you can actually put the Pathfinder Logo on - "Compatible with PF2E!", which is a bit of a difference from those NSFW webcomics.


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When it comes to labels and content warnings and such, it really is a subjective matter, so I don't mind an arbitrary "know it when I see it" rule there. I only object to KYWISI when it's being used to actively prohibit content.

Like, I think it's good to expect someone to exert common sense and not try to market Hook Mountain Massacre as family-friendly, and I think it may even be fair to make it a firm rule that you have to include warnings for certain kinds of material in a publication. It won't be perfect, but the worst-case scenario for an overzealous labeller is fairly minor. But the second you get into the territory of outright banning certain kinds of content, that's a very different story.

And yeah, you're not wrong, there is a difference. That being said, I could bring up the Book of Erotic Fantasy or Book of Vile Darkness as being texts that were printed for D&D that were very much not for children. The latter was even directly under the D&D brand. Those might be better examples than YAFGC.

Dark Archive

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Tbf, I think in this case the NSFW ban clause is needed because of nature of pathfinder infinite.

Like, since pathfinder infinite allows official content being referred to in 3rd party, some authors might not be comfortable with characters they created being sold in store as part of erotic doujin ;P

Random anime references aside, that said 2e compatibility license goes beyond just pathfinder infinite as it bans system being associated with "adult content" while being unclear of what exactly counts and doesn't count without there really being clarification.


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CorvusMask wrote:

Tbf, I think in this case the NSFW ban clause is needed because of nature of pathfinder infinite.

Like, since pathfinder infinite allows official content being referred to in 3rd party, some authors might not be comfortable with characters they created being sold in store as part of erotic doujin ;P

This is a very strong point. I didn't consider it! It's harder to make rules to block that without blocking all NSFW material. Mind you, I still think we should, but I recognize that it's a bit of a challenge. Like, if you made a rule that said "Pathfinder official characters may not be involved in adult situations" or whatever, what does that mean if you feature NSFW content about a Calistrian priestess? Is Calistria "involved" in that?

That's probably the biggest challenge I can see in allowing NSFW content. I still think it's deeply important to find a way for NSFW content to coexist with everything else, though. And regardless, the ambiguity is still a problem, like you said.

Wayfinders

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It might be possible to make NSFW content compatible with Pathfinder, but I don't see Paizo ever allowing you to identify it as compatible and use their compatible logo on it. It will be interesting to see how ORC handles this.

If you want an RPG built around NSFW content, it would likely be best to build a new system and have it branded and marketed to only adults. I think it's as simple as Paizo wanting to protect their brand identity.

Wayfinders

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Kobold Catgirl wrote:
Okay, so genuinely, and I realize that this may be a hard sell for some people, what is the harm in that if it's in a properly-labeled publication? I could point you towards a lot of NSFW webcomics very obviously based on D&D that haven't hurt D&D's branding one bit. There is artistic value in adult content that deserves to be protected.

There's a huge difference between obviously based on X&X and saying it's based on X&X on the cover.

Think of it in reverse take an adult magazine and try to use the same name and logo to market a kid's game. No one wants that PR headache from angry parents.

Wayfinders

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Do I think there's a market for an NSFW content RPG? About as much as there's a market for Game of Thrones.


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We've seen adult content released for D&D before. I'm sure I'm not the only one who remembers Book of Vile Darkness's "For Mature Audiences Only", or Paizo's own "Book of Erotic Fantasy".


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Own them both, to the surprise of absolutely noone.


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Are they any good? I've wondered if I should pick them up.


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Kobold Catgirl wrote:
Are they any good? I've wondered if I should pick them up.

Book of vile darkness was...okay. ish. Lots of gross out stuff there for those who view evil as stuff to kinda freak people out. I remember being bored in some parts.

Book of erotic fantasy was a little better, with some interesting views on how alignments view sex, as well as various races/species, etc. But there was a very real attempt at turning sexual activities into prestige classes and that struck me as silly. A few outright dated ideas appeared in the work, and some of the art was a bit off.

Wayfinders

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Kobold Catgirl wrote:
We've seen adult content released for D&D before. I'm sure I'm not the only one who remembers Book of Vile Darkness's "For Mature Audiences Only", or Paizo's own "Book of Erotic Fantasy".

Found an old thread talking about this. If you scroll down, someone posted that other company's response.


Did the Book of Erotic Fantasy really get refused a D&D compatibility license?
.

Will ORC let people publish things like this, only time will tell, but even if it does I suspect most companies won't want their protect identity attached to it. The book of Erotic Fantasy and Book of Vile Darkness cover very different subject matters, which is why one was refused the brand D&D compatibility license.


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ORC won't be limited at all, which is actually very hopeful for me. It would really be nice to get a clarification for the sake of Pathfinder Infinite, though. I'm not really talking about writing porn or whatever; this thread is mainly about getting clarity on, say, R-rated content.

Wayfinders

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I wish there was active support for Infinite programs in the Paizo forums where people could ask questions. Seems like most of the support is done through Drive-through RPG. This video talks about where to go for that. I wish they had linked to them in the comments.

Gen Con 2022: Infinite Publishing Guide .


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As long as the ORC is compatible with Free Software (as defined by the Free Software Foundation) like the OGL 1.0a seems to be, risque 3rd party content will be allowed under the license.

I believe it is very important to have a license that is permissive in this manner like the OGL 1.0a is.


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I support firmly a more freely described "risque" content, as such act is a natural part of our lives. (though my biggest reasons are to be refrained in even writing out in this very forum, due to the very reasonable rules on "no RL religion/philosophy/politics"...)


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I do really wonder if PFI publishers are expected to write their Calistria-focused supplements to be kid-friendly.


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Kobold Catgirl wrote:
I do really wonder if PFI publishers are expected to write their Calistria-focused supplements to be kid-friendly.

When two people love each other very much, one of them teaches the other how to tie knots in a whip to restrain their... captives...


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Kobold Catgirl wrote:
I do really wonder if PFI publishers are expected to write their Calistria-focused supplements to be kid-friendly.

Lil' Freehold would just be as interested in Calistria and Shelyn as regular Freehold is.

Wayfinders

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The second edition Calistria is way watered down compared to the first edition Calistria. Part of this is 1E has eight pages in Inter seas Gods on Calistria, and 2E only has two pages in Gods and Magic.

2E just hints at what Calistria does, 1E just flat-out says to get a
+4 bonus to charisma checks when you get paid for doing X. Don't forget to pray before and after. Note: everyone must be willing.

In today's environment, I wonder if Paizo would even be willing to print the E1 version of Calistria in an E2 book.

Wayfinders

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Urgathoa is another goddess that's hard to deal with in a kid-friendly way, but her followers make for great evil cults for the PCs to overcome.


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Driftbourne wrote:
In today's environment, I wonder if Paizo would even be willing to print the E1 version of Calistria in an E2 book.

Can we start anti-slut shaming, i.e. shaming people for having prudish/pearl-clutching/"think of the children" tendencies when it comes to risque content instead of the far far more common opposite?

Wayfinders

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AwesomenessDog wrote:
Driftbourne wrote:
In today's environment, I wonder if Paizo would even be willing to print the E1 version of Calistria in an E2 book.
Can we start anti-slut shaming, i.e. shaming people for having prudish/pearl-clutching/"think of the children" tendencies when it comes to risque content instead of the far far more common opposite?

Watch Game of Thrones to see what happens when you shame the wrong person.

Wayfinders

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Kobold Catgirl wrote:
I do really wonder if PFI publishers are expected to write their Calistria-focused supplements to be kid-friendly.

So I looked up the Pathfinder Infinite Content Guidelines

Pathfinder Infinite Content Guidelines .

"Can I publish erotica?
In terms of how graphic your content can be, character (or monster!) romance is fine, but nothing so explicit that it would be considered erotica. Please keep your content safely within the parameters of a PG-13 film rating."

filmratings .

"PG-13 - Parents Strongly Cautioned. Some Material May Be
Inappropriate For Children Under 13.
A PG-13 rating is a sterner warning by the Rating Board to parents to
determine whether their children under age 13 should view the motion
picture, as some material might not be suited for them. A PG-13 motion
picture may go beyond the PG rating in theme, violence, nudity,
sensuality, language, adult activities or other elements, but does not
reach the restricted R category. The theme of the motion picture by itself
will not result in a rating greater than PG-13, although depictions of
activities related to a mature theme may result in a restricted rating for the
motion picture. Any drug use will initially require at least a PG-13 rating.
More than brief nudity will require at least a PG-13 rating, but such nudity

in a PG-13 rated motion picture generally will not be sexually oriented.
There may be depictions of violence in a PG-13 movie, but generally not
both realistic and extreme or persistent violence. A motion picture's
single use of one of the harsher sexually-derived words, though only as
an expletive, initially requires at least a PG-13 rating. More than one
such expletive requires an R rating, as must even one of those words
used in a sexual context. The Rating Board nevertheless may rate such
a motion picture PG-13 if, based on a special vote by a two-thirds
majority, the Raters feel that most American parents would believe that a
PG-13 rating is appropriate because of the context or manner in which
the words are used or because the use of those words in the motion
picture is inconspicuous."


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It's ok as long as you never say f+$~ more than once in your multi-year campaign.

Wayfinders

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AwesomenessDog wrote:
It's ok as long as you never say f!&! more than once in your multi-year campaign.

If that's based on movie standards and most movies are 2 to 3 hours long, you might get away with it up to 2 to 9 times per game session.


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Driftbourne wrote:

The second edition Calistria is way watered down compared to the first edition Calistria. Part of this is 1E has eight pages in Inter seas Gods on Calistria, and 2E only has two pages in Gods and Magic.

2E just hints at what Calistria does, 1E just flat-out says to get a
+4 bonus to charisma checks when you get paid for doing X. Don't forget to pray before and after. Note: everyone must be willing.

In today's environment, I wonder if Paizo would even be willing to print the E1 version of Calistria in an E2 book.

I think this is a real shame, for what it's worth. Calistria's inclusion has come to mean more and more to me over the years, and nowadays I worry Paizo seems almost embarrassed of her.


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Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Agreed about Calistria. I just looked up the deity entry in the Archives of Nethys, and it was immediately obvious that her anathema mostly limits her edicts -- basically, not letting yourself be consumed by the effects of performing her edicts. Calistria never struck me as a deity who believes in moderation.


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Calistria's "listen, vengeance is okay, but don't let it go too far" softening does feel a little weird and out-of-character, especially contrasted with Gorum's highly restrictive Anathemas. That said, it's not quite on-topic here. Her description definitely minimizes her whole "Calistrian temples are literally brothels" shtick, though. Literally only one mention of sex workers in the whole article, and it's as an aside. Not a fan.

EDIT: Okay, I trawled the AONPRD article. There are four allusions toward the vague direction of sex or sexuality in her entire section, and they're... well, I am stretching it. I am really stretching it.

AonPRD wrote:

Calistria has three aspects: lust, revenge, and trickery.

...

Edicts pursue your personal freedom, seek hedonistic thrills, take revenge
Anathema become too consumed by love or a need for revenge, let a slight go unanswered
Areas of Concern lust, revenge, and trickery

...

Calistria typically grants her boon to those on the path toward great vengeance and curses those who slight her followers, particularly if those followers are sex workers, though her fickle heart rarely commits to any absolute guidelines.

It doesn't feel great.

Are these the limits third-party publishers are expected to follow? That's what I want to know.

EDIT x2: I've been informed that her Gods & Magic section may have more information not included on the AONPRD. If so, that's fair! I do think her status as a goddess of lust is still being a little needlessly deemphasized for a "PG-13" game.


^

Quote:

{. . .}

Anathema become too consumed by love or a need for revenge, let a slight go unanswered {. . .}

Not your fault, but those last 2 parts are contradictory.


To be fair, "being consumed by love" isn't the same thing as being consumed by lust, but I think that just means dropping 1 of the 4 references to her position as lust queen. Being hung up on love is sorta not Calistria's thing, as sort of the inverse Shelyn who doesn't want you too hung up on lust. The rest is generally bad change.

Also, "hedonic pleasures" is definitely "writers don't know how else to describe it" creep into Urgathoa's domain...

Liberty's Edge

Here is the thing, in terms of PF Infinite Content, I think it is PERFECTLY reasonable to have more adult-oriented (or even just outright horny) content but it doesn't seem something that Paizo is really equipped to properly or professionally moderate and that's probably why there are restrictions warning against it. Now the guidelines for PFI DO STILL leave things open for individuals to be granted special licenses to do so but those need to be done in a different manner which I think is probably wise. I don't know if anyone HAS been given the kind of approval to create more adult-oriented materials to date but if I were being honest about it, I think if ANYONE on the globe has a chance of getting said approval it would be KC given their long-standing relationship with the community, knowledge of the lore, and professional chops writing adult-oriented fiction.

As for it being "watered down" over time in the official setting and lore books... I mean, what else do you expect? They're trying to make their products and setting at least MOSTLY family-friendly sandbox/theme park TTRPG setting in order to assure they can retain mass market appeal. Including depictions or descriptions of intimate sexuality in the books is very much a kind of line in the sand drawn between adult content and family-friendly materials.

So, in short, I say reach out to Erik, Jason, James, and whoever else might be the ones who would make the determination if you can get a License to create adult materials for Pathfinder Infinite, see if you can come to some kind of agreement, seriously, I'll repeat it again, if ANYONE is going to be given the time of day to create this type of thing it would be you KC.


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Freehold will buy. Then write. Then buy some more.


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Themetricsystem wrote:
As for it being "watered down" over time in the official setting and lore books... I mean, what else do you expect? They're trying to make their products and setting at least MOSTLY family-friendly sandbox/theme park TTRPG setting in order to assure they can retain mass market appeal. Including depictions or descriptions of intimate sexuality in the books is very much a kind of line in the sand drawn between adult content and family-friendly materials.

I agree with the rest of what you said, but I don't follow the rational on this part. The game arguably became *more* sexual through the life time as 1e, both to its peak in 2012-2014 and as 5e took over. They rewrote Arshae to not just be about freedom but sexual liberation with Chronicle of the Righteous in 2013. They give you a succubus girlfriend in Wrath of the Righteous. It's been redacted now, but they released Socothbenoth's fiendish obedience in 2017, where you would "achieve sexual relief" very violently with a mandatory partner, plus Nocticula's who is much more obviously violent requiring a pint of blood to be shed. The bigger contention however lies in the fact that most people here don't see watering down as a necessity to achieve or safely maintain mass appeal.

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