Unlimited Darkness for a feat?

[Jason Wedel]

Am I right in understanding that a Sorcerer with the Light spell and the Eclipsed Feat basically has unlimited Darkness castings (However they would be full round instead of standard actions)

[Mark Hoover 330]

Yes, you're correct. Casting Light affected by the Eclipsed Spell metamagic feat as a Full Round action for a Sorcerer would indeed still be a cantrip, so they can do this all day. Each time the spell is cast, the sorcerer would need to touch an object, and then that object would radiate a 20' radius of darkness that lowers the light level in that area by 1 step for 10 minutes/CL of the caster, functioning like the Darkness spell.

Edit: since you can only have one Light spell going at a time, if you want interlocking areas of Darkness you might instead choose Dancing Lights. That way you could have up to four spheres of Darkness that would need to float within 10' of each other, but each sphere would cast a Darkness radius like a torch (20' radius) for greater area coverage. You can also make the spheres move up to 100' per round. Just sayin...

[Jason Wedel]

Thank you, it was actually more about me rethinking my thoughts on another cantrip that I was thinking was to powerful on its own...but now reconsidering considering it is extremely weaker than this combo, and this combo is not great after about level 3...

[Claxon]

Yeah, it's not creating deeper darkness so regular dark vision creatures don't care and any magical light source will defeat your cantrip version of darkness (although non-magical versions wont).

So I guess enemies or player groups that don't have natural dark vision or a source of magical light of a higher spell level than 0 could be in for some trouble, but finding a way to get dark vision is super common.

So this could be an interesting tactic for a few levels before it falls away to obscurity.

[Jason Wedel]

For me it actually is rather another cantrip (Can't spell it but relieves light blindness) was to powerful. When I stumbled on this I was thinking that it was, but this solves the problem, with at least SOME combat versitility, so now debating a lot more...

[Claxon]

Penumbra I believe is what you're referring to.

This combo is better, but also costs a feat to achieve. So maybe balanced?

[Jason Wedel]

Yup. Kind of what I am thinking now...though have not finalized the idea...

[Mysterious Stranger]

The light spell has to be cast on an object so can be taken away from or dropped. You can always recast it again but if you are in combat that means wasting a standard action. It can also negatively impact your teammates if they don’t have darkvision.

The fact you have to spend a feat makes it pretty expensive in terms of character resources. The feat expanded arcana can give you two spells for a feat. Those spells do have to be one level lower than the maximum you can cast. The feat extra cantrip’s also gives you two cantrips for a feat. If you have other uses for eclipsed spell it might be worth it, but otherwise I would say it is worse than Penumbra. Having both mage hand and penumbra is usually going to be better than being able to use light as darkness. If your entire party has darkvision that might change the value.

[Claxon]

I think OP believes penumbra is not a balanced spell (I actually agree) and doesn't want to use it.

[Mark Hoover 330]

So, 2 different spells that are cantrips that generate light which either glows from an object, delivering the light of a torch in a 20' radius for 10 min/CL or the ability to send one big or four little lights out 100' + 10'/CL, lasting 1 min/CL and manipulate said external lights as a Move action, and Penumbra is OP? Lemme guess; cantrips shouldn't be spammed all day either?

I will respectfully disagree with Penumbra being too OP. I think if a PC can spend 10 GP and use a flask of Acid plus a cantrip to work in conjunction to deal 1d3+1 ranged touch acid damage for infinity, a PC should be able to be shaded. For any caster that DOESN'T have Light Sensitivity or Light Blindness, this spell mechanically does nothing. For those that do, they can see easier.

[Jason Wedel]

Like I said, was rethinking if the spell is OP or not. I can definitely see an argument for and against at this point

[Mysterious Stranger]

If you think it is overpowered don’t use it. Mark is right that for the majority of characters the cantrip does nothing. There is a second level spell Protective Penumbra that is nearly identical to the cantrip except it gives a +2 bonus to saving throws against non-magical hazards related to bright light and protects the target from sunlight. So, a vampire under Protective Penumbra would not be destroyed by sunlight, where one using the cantrip would be.

[Diego Rossi]

Mark Hoover 330 wrote:

For any caster that DOESN'T have Light Sensitivity or Light Blindness, this spell mechanically does nothing. For those that do, they can see easier.

Mechanically it does nothing, but my current campaign is located in Kelesh and the terrain is like Arizona. Having a magic parasol is much appreciated.

[Mark Hoover 330]

Diego Rossi wrote:

Mark Hoover 330 wrote:

For any caster that DOESN'T have Light Sensitivity or Light Blindness, this spell mechanically does nothing. For those that do, they can see easier.

Mechanically it does nothing, but my current campaign is located in Kelesh and the terrain is like Arizona. Having a magic parasol is much appreciated.

If all you're looking for is a bit of shade, why Penumbra? Prestidigitation could do the same thing. For that matter, using Create Water alongside Prestidigitation all day would be making wet rags of chilled water, chilled drinking water and ALSO giving everyone sun hats or extra shade or whatever.

Or, y'know... Endure Elements?

[Diego Rossi]

Mark Hoover 330 wrote:

Diego Rossi wrote:

Mark Hoover 330 wrote:

For any caster that DOESN'T have Light Sensitivity or Light Blindness, this spell mechanically does nothing. For those that do, they can see easier.

Mechanically it does nothing, but my current campaign is located in Kelesh and the terrain is like Arizona. Having a magic parasol is much appreciated.

If all you're looking for is a bit of shade, why Penumbra? Prestidigitation could do the same thing. For that matter, using Create Water alongside Prestidigitation all day would be making wet rags of chilled water, chilled drinking water and ALSO giving everyone sun hats or extra shade or whatever.

Or, y'know... Endure Elements?

Light glare and heat are two different environmental problems in the desert.

[Mark Hoover 330]

Prestidigitation: a bandage across the eyes with 2 very narrow slits to cut down on glare. Or a pair of dark or rose colored lenses.

Neither of these would have a mechanical benefit, so they don't break the function of the spell, but they both give the kind of comfort you're talking about.

[Jason Wedel]

Mark Hoover 330 wrote:

Prestidigitation: a bandage across the eyes with 2 very narrow slits to cut down on glare. Or a pair of dark or rose colored lenses.

Neither of these would have a mechanical benefit, so they don't break the function of the spell, but they both give the kind of comfort you're talking about.

Removes Light Blindness weakness is a game effect (and yes the character has it)

[Mark Hoover 330]

Sorry Jason Wedel; I delivered that bit on Prestidigitation as an example to Diego Rossi of how Prestidigitation would cut down on light glare, the thing he says he has PCs using Penumbra with in his game world. Prestidigitation would not help your PC with Light Blindness.