Cleric of Sarenrae role-play question.


Advice


I am playing a Cleric of Sarenrae in an Agents of Edgewatch campaign, but I am struggling. Honestly, I don't have a clue how to Roleplay him properly and my anathemas collide with the group and the campaign. For example, as strange as it sounds, the inability to lie has proven problematic in a campaign about cops. I chose Sarenrae, because I never played a Cleric of such a compassionate deity, but as I said I am struggling a bit to role-play him and in turn, I don't enjoy playing him much. Any tips?


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As far as the campaign itself goes and the need to lie, you might take a peek at the PFS note for the Barbarian Instinct: Superstition. Basically, if it is going to be a huge problem with being part of the team, the Anathema may need to be relaxed a bit. Work with your GM and the rest of the table to find a solution.

Probably the easiest one would be that as long as your character isn't the one doing the lying, they may be uncomfortable with the lying of the rest of the party, but it won't break Anathema rules. That could lead into a roleplay ad-lib scene of your character chastising the rest of the party for lying and trying to convince them to find more honest ways of accomplishing their goals.


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Starfinder Superscriber

When real clergy have a problem like this they usually take it to a superior. If your GM won't use NPC clergy to figure out how to meet your obligations (like they should), then...

you can be the "Good Cop" in the good cop/bad cop interrogation.

Liberty's Edge

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Giving incomplete info and letting people make the wrong guesses is not lying. It is also dreadfully efficient.

Liberty's Edge

Giving incomplete info and letting people make the wrong guesses without correcting them is not lying. It is also dreadfully efficient.


The Raven Black wrote:
Giving incomplete info and letting people make the wrong guesses is not lying. It is also dreadfully efficient.

I definitely saw somewhere in PF2e anathemas an explicit mention that it's the same as lying. The designers of this game aren't naive. :)

Liberty's Edge

Errenor wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:
Giving incomplete info and letting people make the wrong guesses is not lying. It is also dreadfully efficient.
I definitely saw somewhere in PF2e anathemas an explicit mention that it's the same as lying. The designers of this game aren't naive. :)

I would be interested in reading the exact wording.

Note that what I described above is not actively misleading people. Just letting them draw their own conclusions.


I play a champion of Sarenrae in a Agents of Edgewatch campaign and I manage to get by okay. The power of silence is not to be underestimated. Most of the time where true deception is needed I can hand over the spotlight to a fellow player who can take the lead.

Edicts and Anathema should always be geared to better follow your god. If you lie to protect the innocent or to help someone along their path to redemption then personally I would not see why Sarenrae would punish you.

However, it is up to you to work closely with your GM to find out where the lines and veils are regarding your service to your god. The above advice has helped my group but may not be the same for you. If your commandment to not lie frequently disrupts play in an unenjoyable way then it may be time to lax the rules or compromise.


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The Raven Black wrote:
Errenor wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:
Giving incomplete info and letting people make the wrong guesses is not lying. It is also dreadfully efficient.
I definitely saw somewhere in PF2e anathemas an explicit mention that it's the same as lying. The designers of this game aren't naive. :)

I would be interested in reading the exact wording.

Note that what I described above is not actively misleading people. Just letting them draw their own conclusions.

What you described is more commonly called lying by omission. Giving intentionally incomplete information so that somebody will draw the wrong conclusion is absolutely an attempt at deception (regardless whether it is also Deception). You may not be able to help the conclusions people draw from incomplete information but if you intentionally withhold that information so they'll draw a misleading conclusion strikes me as a clear violation in your intent.


The Raven Black wrote:
Errenor wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:
Giving incomplete info and letting people make the wrong guesses is not lying. It is also dreadfully efficient.
I definitely saw somewhere in PF2e anathemas an explicit mention that it's the same as lying. The designers of this game aren't naive. :)
I would be interested in reading the exact wording.

The only thing that I have found when I went and looked for it is the line in Champion Code about priority of Tenets.

Quote:
If a situation places two tenets in conflict, you aren’t in a no-win situation; instead, follow the more important tenet. For instance, as a paladin, if an evil king asked you if you’re hiding refugees so he could execute them, you could lie to him, since the tenet against lying is less important than preventing harm to innocents.

But that doesn't really match up with what Errenor is remembering.


I play a Sorcerer of Sarenrae (one who actually follows her edicts and anathemas) and not being able to lie is always a bit problematic (especially when you are by far the most charismatic and talkative character out there). But overall I find it manageable, I just let the others speak when there's obvious deception.
Also, I consider that lying by omission is lying. If you allow that, then you can say whatever you want.

Now, it's a bit hard to guess what issues you have with Sarenrae. First of all, I think you have a lot of choice on how to play your character. Sure, you can't lie, and you dislike undeads, but around that there's a lot of room. From the benevolent cleric who never raises his voice to a passionate do gooder who (gently) interferes with others and to a more zealous and dedicated undead/Rovagug destroyer.
You also have to remember that your Cleric doesn't have to embody all of what Sarenrae encompasses. As long as you follow the edicts broadly and avoid anathemas, you're fine focusing on a few aspects of her cult. So if you like healing but are not really interested in redemption, just go on with a full healer and don't necessarily talk about redemption much.

But also: If a character doesn't suit you (or the campaign), then there's not much you can do but create another one.


breithauptclan wrote:
The only thing that I have found when I went and looked for it is the line in Champion Code about priority of Tenets. But that doesn't really match up with what Errenor is remembering.
The Raven Black wrote:
I would be interested in reading the exact wording. Note that what I described above is not actively misleading people. Just letting them draw their own conclusions.

Yes, I searched too, and found almost nothing. Either I've read it somewhere else or our GM said that. But there's at least that in GMG, Ring of Truth:

"You are rendered unable to tell a deliberate lie, in either speech or writing. If you attempt to omit the truth or phrase things truthfully but deceptively, roll a DC 11 flat check; on a failure, the ring itself blurts out the entire truth (as you believe it) as an answer. Keeping silent does not activate the ring’s curse."
Not the same at all, and it's just a magic item.
But I still agree with Sibelius, consciously giving incomplete info and letting people make the wrong guesses is at the very least actively misleading people simply by definition and very likely could be considered lying as SuperBidi does.

Liberty's Edge

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Misleading is not the same as blatanly lying.

And letting people be misled by their own interpretations is yet something else.

The Deception skill is not just about lying.

I do not know enough about the origin of Sarenrae's anathema about lying to be sure what it encompasses.

There could even be heated debates and heavy arguments within the churches and sects of Sarenrae about what the goddess herself considers as lying.


Sarenrae's portfolio lists 'Honesty' under her areas of concern and in 2e has the Truth domain, but you are right it's not actually clear where this aspect of her teachings comes from--or how mich wiggle room is built in. Besides which, I do enjoy resolving ambiguous or difficult anathema with in-world theological debates.

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