Donkeys and mules

[jadesalem86]

So in reality donkeys and mules can and have been used as mounts for people. So I understand they are RAW/RAI not combat mounts. But can they be travel mounts for medium sized creatures?

[Diego Rossi]

The rules conflate donkeys and mules, but most donkeys are relatively small animals that only small creatures can ride, while mules have large breeds that can transport medium creatures.
When depicting the larger breeds of mules I use the light or heavy horse stats.
I have never heard of mules trained for mounted combat, but mules are quite adept at defending themselves, more than untrained horses.

[jadesalem86]

Diego Rossi wrote:

The rules conflate donkeys and mules, but most donkeys are relatively small animals that only small creatures can ride, while mules have large breeds that can transport medium creatures.

When depicting the larger breeds of mules I use the light or heavy horse stats.
I have never heard of mules trained for mounted combat, but mules are quite adept at defending themselves, more than untrained horses.

what would you wager the cost of a "large breed" Mule/ donkey would be?

[Diego Rossi]

jadesalem86 wrote:

Diego Rossi wrote:

The rules conflate donkeys and mules, but most donkeys are relatively small animals that only small creatures can ride, while mules have large breeds that can transport medium creatures.

When depicting the larger breeds of mules I use the light or heavy horse stats.
I have never heard of mules trained for mounted combat, but mules are quite adept at defending themselves, more than untrained horses.

what would you wager the cost of a "large breed" Mule/ donkey would be?

As a horse trained for riding but not combat.

The advantages are that they have better stamina, are more sure-footed, and are easier to feed.
All stuff that is hard to represent in the game.

[Claxon]

Yeah, I would just have donkey or mule be a re-skin of a horse. There's not much to be gained form trying to create different rules for these compared to horses when they're pretty much the same from how the game rules would apply perspective.

[Ryze Kuja]

I also agree, re-skin a horse and call it a donkey or mule or w/e you want.

[Phoebus Alexandros]

jadesalem86 wrote:

So in reality donkeys and mules can and have been used as mounts for people. So I understand they are RAW/RAI not combat mounts. But can they be travel mounts for medium sized creatures?

Yes.

The key thing here is to take into account those animals' strengths and limitations. A donkey, for example, is, statistically speaking, probably close to a pony probably without the Run feat*. Can a donkey carry a medium size creature? Sure, you see that all the time. Can it hustle while carrying a medium size creature? Probably not.

* Most domesticated donkeys are significantly slower than the average horse. On the other hand, some breeds of wild donkeys are noted to be significantly faster than their domesticated counterparts.

[Azothath]

jadesalem86 wrote:

So in reality donkeys and mules can and have been used as mounts for people. So I understand they are RAW/RAI not combat mounts. But can they be travel mounts for medium sized creatures?

There are differences between the Game(PF1) and Reality.

There are simple categories for Familiars, Animal Companions, Mounts, and such. mount search on AoN

"Combat Mounts" refers to creatures that have been given combat training and can be ridden as Mounts and will not require skill checks every round to control (aka not run off, see Ride: Control Mount in Combat). The Mounted Combat rules are overly simplistic to keep things moving. Horses and (presumably) other herd herbivores have the Docile quality which means they have secondary attacks{-5(dmg +STR/2)} rather than primary attacks with hooves. Creatures not suitable for combat are 'pack animals'. Combat Training also comes with a selection of Tricks that the animal can perform on command (see Handle Animal), pack animal don't have that.
For Size, Mounts are one size category larger (or more) than the rider. It takes a Feat to get around that.

Horse as a creature
Horse & Pony as a mount
Donkey & Mule Category Mounts/Pets
lastly - Mounts/Pets as Equipment

[Azothath]

In the Game, a combat trained heavy war horse (read as Horse with Simple Advanced template, then combat trained via Handle Animal with Tricks(it is possible to swap a few tricks at purchase with GM approval -OR- save cash by having a party member train the horse).
The horse will need some common equipment to make it easy to use (bit & bridle, military saddle, saddlebags, a couple days feed, a few extras and a Name) about $328 in all.

A rider needs at least 1 rank in Handle Animal and Ride skills. With those two you can make checks and not fall into the unskilled category. My suggestion is to put 5 ranks in Ride so you have a good chance to make a DC20 check.
At 1st-3rd level having such a mount makes a HUGE difference. It carries through until about 5th-7th level where the CRs of challenges mean the mount is not likely to survive 3 rounds of combat as a target. Still, it means your mount is taking damage rather than the rider and $300 is cheap for that effect. Mounts can be used in combat but I'd avoid it unless your character has feats for mounted combat or is a class with a mount as purchased mounts will never keep pace with character advancement.
Mount:C1 spell and Phantom Steed:C3 can be useful. Casters generally apply Mage Armor:C1 & Ablative Barrier:C3 to their mount. Revenant Armor:T4 might be handy.

[Matthew Morris]

Azothath wrote:

Casters generally apply Mage Armor:C1 & Ablative Barrier:C3 to their mount. Revenant Armor:T4 might be handy.

Hmm, would be nice to put those spells on the phantom steed too. Wonder if it is legal?

[Azothath]

Matthew Morris wrote:

Azothath wrote:

Casters generally apply Mage Armor:C1 & Ablative Barrier:C3 to their mount. Revenant Armor:T4 might be handy.

Hmm, would be nice to put those spells on the phantom steed too. Wonder if it is legal?

hmmm, both of those spells target creature touched but there are a lot of adjectives before the word 'creature' in Phantom Steed... so I'd say that "quasi-real" lands you in GM territory.

Secondly, under Conjuration school, Creation spells create objects or effects on the spot. Notice it doesn't say creatures or animals.

If it were Sum Mon 1 (series) you'd be on safe ground.