Brawler or Unchained monk (Tonfa) User


I am unsure if I want to go Brawler or Unchained Monk for My new character.
I want them to fight using Tonfa just cause it's a bit different from the usual Sword or Axe or Bow I Tend to lean toward.

I know there close weapon with Blockig so Thought if I went Brawler I could get the Damage Dice Increase that Brawlers grant Close Weapon and could go Crane Style and fight defensively and benefit from the Tonfa's Blocking Feature.

However I also know there Monk weapons so I could see me playing an Unchained Monk
I'd like to to be able to use them via Stunning Fist if possible if I went this route.

My Character is going to be A Half-Elf but I'll tailor there personality and stuff once I figure out what class

Brawler with Monk's Robe, done and done

Ryze Kuja

What feats should I consider.
And would any Archetype be good for this?


I'D like to build a Brawler who uses The Stick Fighting Xtyle Feat Line with Tonfas

But not sure what other feats to take for Them

I want to take Advantage of The features I get for my weapons via stick fighting and it's own blocking feature

Martial Arts feat chain for Stick-Fighting
#1 Stick-Fighting Style feat at BAB +1. For not being the 'listed weapon' the saving grace is the last part of the feat for MW weapons.
#2 Stick-Fighting Counter feat at BAB +4
#3 Stick-Fighting Manuever feat at BAB +6

The main problem with 'sticks' is;
a small list of weapons [club 1h smpl (1d6)B, quarterstaff 2h smpl (1d6,1d6)B {mnk}, dan bong lgt extc (1d3)B {mnk}, sap lgt mrtl (1d6)NL, or tonfa lgt mrtl (1d6)B {mnk}].
Special Materials as they are not metal weapons.
Focus on Bludgeoning damage type.

For a Monk, Imp Unarmed Attack(IUA) damage will exceed weapon damage rather quickly and the monk can make IUA dmg NL, not so for weapons. This compounds the Special Materials problem. The draw here is always armed with decent martial competency(Atk & Def), improved saves, and good DEF with Flowing Monk. UncMonks are in the same boat although they gain many more weapon proficiencies. The draw is drawn out with UncMonks.

Brawler gains all smpl and Close weapons along with 2 martial weapon proficiencies (covers stick wpns). The draw here is close martial competency (Atk & CM), flexible martial feat. Usually multi-classed out of.

Class Guides at ZG

Stick-Fighting Staff Magus thread 2020-11

Style advice for Rogue thread 2020-10

Stick-Fighting Slayer thread 2019-12

IMO Stick-Fighting Style is best for 3/4 to 1/2 BAB types, particularly just the first feat and MW wpns for non-martial types. Getting prof with Tonfa is more the issue.

JuliusCromwell wrote:

Ryze Kuja

What feats should I consider.
And would any Archetype be good for this?

It kinda depends on what you'd like your character to do, tbh. Since you're going to be TWF with Tonfas, you're going to be making up to 8 attacks per round at BAB 16, haste, and Greater TWF, and your iterative attacks will go -5 and -10 and eventually -15, so debuffing their AC somehow with your first couple hits is going to be important for you so you can land your remaining iterative attacks.

I'd recommend going Quick Dirty Tricks (or use Stick Fighting Maneuver) to make your first attack in the round a Blind maneuver, or going for Shatter Defenses and causing them to become flat-footed to all your attacks. And if you do either of these, then this screams SnA and I'd recommend going with Snakebite Striker Archetype and/or dipping into U-Rogue for 3 or even 4 levels for +2d6 SnA on top of the SnA you get from Snakebite Striker. A 4 level dip into Rogue gives you Debilitating Injury, and you can use this to make their AC -2 for your party and -4 AC for your own attacks, and you only lose -1BAB progression. Plus, you pick up Evasion, and 2 Rogue Talents.

If this -----^ isn't appealing, then you could go for sort of a "Linebreaker" style of play with a 2 level dip in Siegebreaker Fighter, and you become really good at pushy-shovy stuff, so Bull Rush and Overrun. You can essentially plow right through the enemy's line and go straight for the BBEG.

Or, you could go for an AoO build, and get Vicious Stomp, Imp/Greater Trip, and a Fortuitous enchant on your weapons, and doing this can really pile on the hurty hurt with extra attacks per round from both you and any of your ally PC martials who are next to your enemy, and your enemies will be prone, a lot, so that's a -4 to AC. <--- speaking of which, what is your party composition-- are you the only martial or will you have a flanking buddy or 2? What kind of campaign are you running-- an Adventure Path or a Homebrew campaign? What level are you starting and ending at?

If you go for Dirty Tricks, I'd recommend going full Brawler til at least level 11, so you can get Dirty Tricks Master on time.

If you don't want to SnA, then Vanilla Brawler is solid too.

I dunno, it's up to you, the world is your oyster. Whatever you pick I can help you make a build though.

I'll add that since B type damage tends to do well against Undead, Cleric?! Warpriest?

To pick up the proficiencies I'm going to suggest dipping into another class AS a Deity with Stick-Fighting favored weapons that Clerics don't have are only Evil;
  quarterstaff(smpl):18. Cleric class covers all these.
  tonfa(mrtl): none. {dang!} {Warpriest covers all mrtl wpns}
  sap(mrtl):3, Gavidya(LE), Jiraviddain(LE), Shawnari(CE) - really...
  dan bong(extc): none.
  Unarmed Strike:6, Irori(LN), Monad(N), Korada(NG), Lythertida(NG), Akuma(LE), Il'surrish(CN).

The Game is overly harsh on gaining a weapon proficiency let alone two or more.

@Ryze Kuja

Well Looking At the Following Level Spread to Start level 5


For Feats im thinking something like

1 Sap Master
3 Dodge
3 Combat Trick = Bludgeoner
5 Sap Master

I want sap Adept and Sap Master and way to reliablely trigger Sneak Attack Damage

I would go

lvl1 URogue1 Feat: Enforcer

SnA 1d6

lvl2 URogue2 Combat Trick: Bludgeoner


lvl3 URogue3 Feat: Sap Adept

SnA 2d6 lethal, 2d6+2 non-lethal

lvl4 URogue4 Rogue Talent: Weapon Focus (Tonfa)

Uncanny Dodge
Debilitating Injury (-2/-4 AC)

lvl5 SnakebiteStriker1 Feat: Sap Master

SnA 3d6 lethal, 6d6+6 non-lethal

lvl6 SnakebiteStriker2 BCF: Imp Dirty Trick

SnA 4d6 lethal, 8d6+8 non-lethal

lvl7 SnakebiteStriker3 Greater Dirty Trick

lvl8 SnakebiteStriker4

lvl9 SnakebiteStriker5 Feat: Power Attack, BCF: Quick Dirty Trick

lvl10 SnakebiteStriker6

lvl11 SnakebiteStriker7 Feat: Anything you want

lvl12 SnakebiteStriker8 BCF: Dirty Tricks Master

Get a Cruel Enchant for one of your Tonfa's asap so you can debuff Shaken/Sicken with Enforcer/Cruel for a -4 att, saves, skills, and ability checks, and a -2 to dmg.

Also get Boots of Speed asap, because you want that extra attack per round.

Last thing, I know I put Greater DT at 7 and Quick Dirty Trick at lvl 9, I would actually swap these around. You want to be doing QDT's early as possible, so level 7 would be better for QDT, and then get Greater Dirty Trick at level 9.

@Ryze Kuja

How to I trigger SA before I get dirty Trick ?

JuliusCromwell wrote:

@Ryze Kuja

How to I trigger SA before I get dirty Trick ?

Flanking is going to be your most reliable way of landing SnA's, or attack from Invisibility/Stealth/Surprise. Then you can Snake Feint once you're lvl 3 Snakebite Striker as well. Once you have Blind as a Quick Dirty Trick, that'll be 4 ways of causing SnA.

But remember your Sneak Attack ABC's, Always Be Cflanking!

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