Hi,
We're having a problem adjudicating what to do about this spell(Tiny Hut) when used in a melee situation for concealment. The problem is that the spell says there's only room for 10 medium-sized creatures, although the actual size of it clearly indicates there's room for alot more, so what happens when more than 10 medium-sized creaturse enter?
I'm thinking maybe this sentence: "However, if you remove yourself from the hut, the spell ends." should read: "However, if you remove yourself from the hut, or more than 10 medium-sized creatures are inside it, the spell ends."
OR
This sentence: "As many as nine other Medium creatures can fit into the field with you; they can freely pass into and out of the hut without harming it." should have the additional information: "If the hut is full any other creatures trying to enter the sphere will be held out by a force field." or maybe even "If the hut is full and additional creatures try to enter, the hut will bend away from them and not let them inside." or something like that.
I think the force-field effect is too good for a 3rd lvl spell, obvisouly, but if it ends because too many people try to enter, I think it's too harsh. Imo the part with it bending away to not include anyone trying to enter when it's full seems the most balanced way to make it. What do you think?
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I think the best way to handle it would be to ignore the 10 person limit. I agree that the force field preventing entry would be too powerful. The 'bending around #11' plan seems like it would be confusing and hard to keep track of, as well as a little hard to visualize. I also agree that having it collapse because #11 walked in is too harsh.
On the player side, I suppose they could try to make this broken by hiring enough mercenaries to fill up the whole area, but that seems far-fetched to me. On the GM side of the table, if you're filling up a 20' radius with creatures, it's probably an encounter that's well above or well below the party's level & you aren't too concerned about exactly matching what is 'fair'. Finally, I don't think that protecting 40+ people (instead of only 10 people) from exposure to the natural environment for 2 hours/level is overly powerful for a third-level spell.
Bob
Given that its area of effect is a sphere, I typically treat the Tiny Hut as a dome (the spell refers to it as a hemisphere). Ten people can fit in the area and gain the benefits of being in the tiny hut.The area near the base of the the dome is used for storage of supplies and such.
Others can enter this area, but do not gain the benefits of the spell because they stick out of the dome's low ceiling.
Bob Hopp: The wizard frequenlty buff the melee members with enlarge person, we're often 5 players, and the paladin has the leadership feat with 18 charisma, so this 10-man limit is reached frequently. Used in a cramped area, like a hallway or next to a cliff wall, we won't even need enlarge person. Do you consider it broken if used for this purpose?
Sure enough, the PCs get a great advantage if the enemy is stupid enough to press on with their ranged and melee attacks, and if they try to bull-rush in, try getting past an enlarged grapple-specced monk. He rarely fails a combat maneuver check... :P On the other hand, the PCs have put themselves in a nice spot for a fireball or other aoe spell. This shouldn't be anything a DM couldn't handle. :)
Thraxus: We've considered this fact, and it still can fit more than 10 people after you remove all squares on the edge because of low ceiling. And someone lying prone in this area obviously would gain the benefits again as they were completely inside. Furthermore, the roof is 20' up. It's a fricken 20' radius. :P You won't get much low ceiling because the wall on the edge is very steep. I think you COULD stand upright there without having your head poking out. Especially if you're not more than 5' tall.
Ignoring the 10-man limit seems like a well enough solution since it's obviously not making much sense, but I would still like to hear more opinions on this.
I have never run into this problem before, but then my players never use the spell (though I do when I play a wizard).
I think the force field is a terrible idea... don't go there.
I suggest you change the area to a 20' diameter rather than a radius. That way you cannot squeeze any more than 16 medium creatures in there any way. I think it is a reasonable solution - 20'radius is after all not actually a "tiny" hut.
I think the problem is that the spell is not actually desingned as a combat spell and the 10 person limit is an abstraction. A guideline to how many people can camp within the area with a reasonable degree of comfort.
I suggest you either reduce the area to 20' diameter (10' radius), or ignore the 10 person limit, or retain the 20' radius but rule that it contracts to a 10' radius in combat - an arcane reaction to hostile emotions, for instance.
Hi,
We're having a problem adjudicating what to do about this spell(Tiny Hut) when used in a melee situation for concealment. The problem is that the spell says there's only room for 10 medium-sized creatures, although the actual size of it clearly indicates there's room for alot more, so what happens when more than 10 medium-sized creaturse enter?
The spell says:
As many as nine other Medium creatures can fit into the field with you; they can freely pass into and out of the hut without harming it.
This assumes that if an eleventh medium-sized creature enters the sphere, the hut is "harmed". Since the hut is telekinetic opaque force, the only possibility of "harm" I can think of is ending the spell.
I'm thinking maybe this sentence: "However, if you remove yourself from the hut, the spell ends." should read: "However, if you remove yourself from the hut, or more than 10 medium-sized creatures are inside it, the spell ends."
Based on the wording of the spell, the spell would immediately end if an eleventh medium creature tries to enter.
This sentence: "As many as nine other Medium creatures can fit into the field with you; they can freely pass into and out of the hut without harming it." should have the additional information: "If the hut is full any other creatures trying to enter the sphere will be held out by a force field."
That cannot happen, since missiles, weapons, and most spell effects can pass through the hut without harming it. Tiny hut provides only a limited amount of protection against listed things; it doesn't protect from someone simply walking in.
or maybe even "If the hut is full and additional creatures try to enter, the hut will bend away from them and not let them inside." or something like that.
The hut will always let creatures in. Why wouldn't it? It allows weapons, missiles, and most spell effects in. Why wouldn't it allow a person as well?
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Bob Hopp: The wizard frequenlty buff the melee members with enlarge person, we're often 5 players, and the paladin has the leadership feat with 18 charisma, so this 10-man limit is reached frequently. Used in a cramped area, like a hallway or next to a cliff wall, we won't even need enlarge person. Do you consider it broken if used for this purpose?
Well, the only other thing I would suggest is that you compare it with Invisibility Sphere, since that comes closest to the "we see you, but you can't see us" effect. If you and your group think the power level is on par, then go for it. I also think the 20' diameter is a good solution.