# removing the stupefied condition

### Rules Discussion

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If something makes a PC stupefied, but does not specify a duration, how long does it last? Alternatively, how does the PC get rid of the condition?

This condition has a value. If whatever made the PC stupefied doesn't specify how to reduce the value, how does the PC reduce it?

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The restoration spell can reduce stupefied.

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Ah. I figured there was something. Thanks.

Ed Reppert wrote:

If something makes a PC stupefied, but does not specify a duration, how long does it last? Alternatively, how does the PC get rid of the condition?

This condition has a value. If whatever made the PC stupefied doesn't specify how to reduce the value, how does the PC reduce it?

Did you have a specific effect in mind?

In general, conditions can be divided into two groups:
- Conditions with their own mechanic for when they go away (Sickened, Frightened, Drained, Doomed, ...)
- Conditions without their own mechanic for going away (Stupified, Enfeebled, Clumsy, ...)

Conditions with their own timing generally linger after they're caused by an effect. Conditions without their own timing normally disappear when the effect causing them ends.

Ascalaphus wrote:
Ed Reppert wrote:

If something makes a PC stupefied, but does not specify a duration, how long does it last? Alternatively, how does the PC get rid of the condition?

This condition has a value. If whatever made the PC stupefied doesn't specify how to reduce the value, how does the PC reduce it?

Did you have a specific effect in mind?

In general, conditions can be divided into two groups:
- Conditions with their own mechanic for when they go away (Sickened, Frightened, Drained, Doomed, ...)
- Conditions without their own mechanic for going away (Stupified, Enfeebled, Clumsy, ...)

Conditions with their own timing generally linger after they're caused by an effect. Conditions without their own timing normally disappear when the effect causing them ends.

^^^ this

There should be some marker as to the duration causing the condition. What caused the stupefied?

There are plenty of monsters and hazards that unfortunately do not have durations listed for conditions they apply.

Focus Cathartic also helps against Stupefied.

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Lucerious wrote:
There should be some marker as to the duration causing the condition. What caused the stupefied?

A trap. "Creatures within the chamber must succeed on a DC 30 Fortitude save or become stupefied 1 (stupefied 2 on a critical failure). The trap then rolls initiative."

Later: "The gas intensifies. Each creature in the room must make a DC 30 Fortitude save." On a critical success "The creature is unaffected and becomes temporarily immune to the gas for 1 hour, though if the creature has already been stupefied by the trap, that condition remains for its normal duration."

So the trap is tripped, somebody becomes stupefied 1 or 2, the gas intensifies, and they make another Fortitude save. Even critical success does not affect the original "stupefied", and no duration for that one is specified.

If they fail the second Fort save, they're stupefied 1 (or 1+ their existing stupefied value if they were already stupefied) and that lasts 24 hours.

If I were GM'ing it I would rule that the initial stupefaction lasts 24 hours, but the description doesn't actually say that. Hence my question.

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That sounds like sloppy writing.

If you look through main line books, it's pretty consistent that conditions like Clumsy without an inherent duration, take their duration from the effect that causes it.

Pathfinder is fair enough that it doesn't accidentally leave you with a bugged condition that forgets to go away in an orderly fashion. If something is meant to be a permanent loss then it's going to say so explicitly.

Based on the reading, it appears the condition is conditional on being in the gas. Therefore, the condition of stupefied is gone once the character is out of the gas. However, without knowing which hazard that is and not being able to find it on Nethys, I cannot say with full certainty.

Edit: Reading it again, I am less sure about my answer due to the intensified version lasting 24 hours. Based on that, the maximum time seems 24 hours (with that maybe being the minimum).

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I don't think it's in AoN.

Spoiler:
It's the Befuddling Gas Trap on the tenth level of the Abomination Vaults

It is the same gas as with future action based saves, so I would assume 24h just like the failure and crit failure.

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So the fact that failing the extra save causes them a stronger version and it has a lasting effect with a specific duration, I would agree that the condition probably is supposed to be able to be removed when leaving the area of effect.

If that doesn't feel right, I'd suggest it might have an intended duration of 'Encounter' meaning that using a duration of 1 minute or potentially 10 minutes would not be too hard to believe. (Yes, as far as I know, there is no such defined duration as encounter, but it seems the easiest way to define the probably scope of the effect)

I think that the higher effect finally listing a duration is a strong enough indicator that timeframe applies to the lower effect.