# Concentration check DC for spell-like abilities in manacles or shackles?

### Rules Questions

I'm running into a bit of a problem. I need to know the DC of the concentration check for someone to cast SP while in shackles/manacles. I have only found the DC for when someone is pinned but it uses the grappler's CMB. DC = 10 + grappler’s CMB + spell level. The problem here is that I don't think a shackle/manacle count as having a set CMB.

Ok, what I just came up with... the Escape Artist check to escape bindings would be 20+CMB. A manacles's escape artist DC is 30 or 35 if masterwork... so that means the CMB would be +10/+15.

Pinned Concentration check with manacles = 10 + (10/15) + spell level.

I believe there was something that had those extrapolations somewhere official but cannot find it in case anyone else knows it.

The problem is how much the "bind" term in the manacles description is a game keyword. If we assume it is:

[quoter=CRB]Tie Up: If you have your target pinned, otherwise restrained, or unconscious, you can use rope to tie him up.
This works like a pin effect, but the DC to escape the bonds is equal to 20 + your Combat Maneuver Bonus (instead of your CMD). The ropes do not need to make a check every round to maintain the pin. If you are grappling the target, you can attempt to tie him up in ropes, but doing so requires a combat maneuver check at a –10 penalty. If the DC to escape from these bindings is higher than 20 + the target’s CMB, the target cannot escape from the bonds, even with a natural 20 on the check.

CRB wrote:
Grappled or Pinned: Casting a spell while you have the grappled or pinned condition is difficult and requires a concentration check (DC 10 + the grappler’s CMB + the level of the spell you’re casting). Pinned creatures can only cast spells that do not have somatic components.
CRB wrote:
A manacled creature can use the Escape Artist skill to slip free (DC 30, or DC 35 for masterwork manacles).

Apparently, the CMB of the manacles is 10, and that of masterwork manacles is 15.

That will make the concentration checks DC 20 and 25 + the level of the spell.

Those values make a lot of assumptions but agree with your calculations.
As we reached the same result from two different directions, I think it is a reasonable solution.

Ummm....correct me if I'm wrong but spell like abilities wouldn't normally have concentration checks to cast.

Quote:
Usually, a spell-like ability works just like the spell of that name. A spell-like ability has no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus. The user activates it mentally. Armor never affects a spell-like ability’s use, even if the ability resembles an arcane spell with a somatic component.

Because SLAs don't have any verbal, somatic, material, or focus components and is purely mentally activated I don't think a concentration would be required.

However, I don't have anything official at the moment to back that up.

Claxon wrote:

Ummm....correct me if I'm wrong but spell like abilities wouldn't normally have concentration checks to cast.

Quote:
Usually, a spell-like ability works just like the spell of that name. A spell-like ability has no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus. The user activates it mentally. Armor never affects a spell-like ability’s use, even if the ability resembles an arcane spell with a somatic component.

Because SLAs don't have any verbal, somatic, material, or focus components and is purely mentally activated I don't think a concentration would be required.

However, I don't have anything official at the moment to back that up.

You are thinking of Supernatural abilities. Spell-like abilities require concentration checks to be cast defensively and they provoke when cast.

They work like spells.

Lacking "any verbal, somatic, material, or focus components" is irrelevant to provoking AoO. What avoids it is casting a spell as a swift action.

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Spell-like abilities can require concentrations checks yes, but absent an active foe disrupting you, the only thing manacles do is prevent somatic components (ala the pinned condition, as noted above). Which spell-like abilities do not have.

No check is required - that's the wondrous thing about having a spell-like ability. You can be tied up naked in *silence* and still cast them.

Majuba wrote:

Spell-like abilities can require concentrations checks yes, but absent an active foe disrupting you, the only thing manacles do is prevent somatic components (ala the pinned condition, as noted above). Which spell-like abilities do not have.

No check is required - that's the wondrous thing about having a spell-like ability. You can be tied up naked in *silence* and still cast them.

Being manacled is a form of "pin", and being pinned or grappled forces you into making a concentration check.

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Diego Rossi wrote:
Being manacled is a form of "pin", and being pinned or grappled forces you into making a concentration check.

This is not the case. Even the additional information on manacles in "Path of the Hellknight" doesn't include any such thing as an option. By simple common sense, they restrain the use of the hands, and could be locked around some other object. They do not include a living, hostile force interrupting your actions.

[Apologies for the long delay in reply.]

Majuba wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:
Being manacled is a form of "pin", and being pinned or grappled forces you into making a concentration check.

This is not the case. Even the additional information on manacles in "Path of the Hellknight" doesn't include any such thing as an option. By simple common sense, they restrain the use of the hands, and could be locked around some other object. They do not include a living, hostile force interrupting your actions.

[Apologies for the long delay in reply.]

Manacles use the same rules as rope for being "bound" which is a more severe form of pin. I don't know what you're on about, except maybe that if you only used one arm of your victim in a manacle to tie him to a tree/pole, he wouldn't be pinned as if you got both manacles on both arms.