HumbleGamer |
Hey,
I was looking for a feat that allows the character to draw 2 one handed weapons at once during combat.
The ideal was for a normal dex based ranger using either a bow from the distance and 2 weapons when close combat ( making a good use of either twin takedown and hunted shot).
Couldn't find anythinganything but using gloves of storing to put a short sword within them.
Using one action to draw a weapon and a free action to summon the one within the gloves.
But a feat would have been nicer.
Lucerious |
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My understanding of Quick Draw is that it only works for a single weapon, though. I had this same issue with a flurry ranger who used a longbow at range and two hatchets when stuck in close. Fortunately, I had a GM that was willing to allow Quick Draw to get both weapons out, but only strike with one.
Lucerious |
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If you wait for your Hunted Prey to close on you, you can Quick Draw > Quick draw > twin takedown in one turn for the same DPR as if you had weapons already in hand. It gets trickier if you need to move or Hunt.
Source Core Rulebook pg. 172 3.0
“You draw your weapon and attack with the same motion. You Interact to draw a weapon, then Strike with that weapon.”The wording on Quick Draw indicates the requirement to strike as part of the action. That means the PC will have to make two separate strikes before the character can use Twin Takedown. That would be rather bad for MAP even with flurry.
Guntermench |
Quick Draw (draw and attack with weapon 1), Quick Draw (draw and attack with weapon 2), Twin Takedown (attack with both weapons) is the same MAP as Twin Takedown (attack with both), Strike with 1, Strike with 2.
Is it ideal since Twin Takedown adds to bypass resistance? No. But it's perfectly functional and is the same number of attacks.
HumbleGamer |
Well, the build was meant to be precision ( way better if you intend to alternate between bow and dual wield ).
So it would be -0/-5 with a bow and -0/-4 while dualwielding.
@Lucerious: Guntermench is saying that if you strike an enemy under the effect of hunt prey, your MAP is going to be the same regardless the order of the attacks.
1) Strike , Strike , Twin Takedown ( -0/-4/-8/-8 )
2) Strike, Twin takedown, Strike ( -0/-4/-8/-8 )
3) Twin Takedown, Strik, Strike ( -0/-4/-8/-8 )
they all end up being with th same map ( I assume with agile weapons in both hands ).
What changes is that twin takedown allows the character to merge the damage of both strikes for DR purposes.
Lucerious |
Well, the build was meant to be precision ( way better if you intend to alternate between bow and dual wield ).
So it would be -0/-5 with a bow and -0/-4 while dualwielding.
@Lucerious: Guntermench is saying that if you strike an enemy under the effect of hunt prey, your MAP is going to be the same regardless the order of the attacks.
1) Strike , Strike , Twin Takedown ( -0/-4/-8/-8 )
2) Strike, Twin takedown, Strike ( -0/-4/-8/-8 )
3) Twin Takedown, Strik, Strike ( -0/-4/-8/-8 )they all end up being with th same map ( I assume with agile weapons in both hands ).
What changes is that twin takedown allows the character to merge the damage of both strikes for DR purposes.
Since your original issue seemed to be focused on getting both weapons out for minimal action cost, I am not sure why this is about DPS. My point had little to do with damage other than that doing two Quick Draw actions followed by a Twin Takedown isn’t solving the issue or MAP efficient. I am fully aware how it works in terms of DPS (or DPR I guess).
You also never said anything about the character being a precision ranger, but I guess I didn’t need to assume flurry. Either way, none of that changes the idea of what your original quandary was or at least seemed to be.HumbleGamer |
You also never said anything about the character being a precision ranger, but I guess I didn’t need to assume flurry. Either way, none of that changes the idea of what your original quandary was or at least seemed to be.
The precision ranger part was merely an addition.
I mentioned that I was going to go with that since I saw you mentioning flurry more than once ( but it wasn't important at all, as it doesn't matter when it comes to draw weapons ).
As mentioned in the first post, I tried to find a way to draw 2 weapons at once, but couldn't find anything. So I decided to look for alternatives in terms of action efficiency.
I somehow got a confirm that such feat doesn't exist, and learnd about some alternatives.
In the end, quick draw, was the best ( imo ).
I could have used glove of storage to draw one for free, but since I would have needed one action to draw the second, and another one to twin takedown, relying on quickdraw and saving the gloves of storage for a potion or similar, seems the best deal I could get ( in terms of efficiency ).
HumbleGamer |
Why would you go precision combined with dual wielding weapons? Third attacks are kind of wasted. Precision could just as well go sword and board. Though shield doesn't go to well with switch hitting.
Because it's bow alternated with dual wielding.
No enemies within melee reach may end up not going melee at all, for example.
So, overall, precision is better ( I may consider changing my Hunter's edge at higher level though).
Taja the Barbarian |
Falco271 wrote:Why would you go precision combined with dual wielding weapons? Third attacks are kind of wasted. Precision could just as well go sword and board. Though shield doesn't go to well with switch hitting.Because it's bow alternated with dual wielding.
No enemies within melee reach may end up not going melee at all, for example.
So, overall, precision is better ( I may consider changing my Hunter's edge at higher level though).
Generally speaking, ranged/melee 'switch hitters' are considered a waste of effort: Once you pick a primary style (ranged or melee), the odds of you actually needing to use the other style is typically so low that there is little point in actually investing any resources in it...
As for specific edges, I would think bows and 'dual melee' builds would desire the Flurry edge as they are both typically focused on taking lots of attacks, while Precision would probably be favored by Crossbow and two-handed weapon users (not an expert on Rangers by any mean, but I believe this is the 'conventional wisdom' at least).
Squiggit |
Depends somewhat on the weapon, the more damage you do per hit, the higher value flurry is, which can shift the needle a little bit one way or the other.
It's one of the reason why bow flurry isn't as strong as it sounds despite your ability to turret, bows do relatively low damage per hit (it also means, perhaps a bit unintuitively, that flurry with a d12 weapon is surprisingly decent).
Captain Morgan |
Don't listen to the haters of switch hitting. If you max your strength and dexterity it works really well. The ranger in particular is great for it. You can rain arrows from 200 feet away without penalty in open ground, potentially forcing goes to waste multiple rounds closing on you. When they do close, quick draw the melee weapons for full strength to damage plus agile accuracy boosts.
The biggest issue is runes, but you usually find a +1 striking weapon to spare before the end of level 5 and you won't get any major DPR runes again until at least 8th. In practice I haven't actually seen much problem keeping 2 weapons plus doubling rings competitive until pretty late in the game, and even that might not be a problem depending on loot drops.
Switching hitting may not be worth it if you are a low strength crossbow type though, and it awkward on gunslingers with their janky proficiency.
Taja the Barbarian |
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Don't listen to the haters of switch hitting. If you max your strength and dexterity it works really well. The ranger in particular is great for it. You can rain arrows from 200 feet away without penalty in open ground, potentially forcing goes to waste multiple rounds closing on you. When they do close, quick draw the melee weapons for full strength to damage plus agile accuracy boosts.
The biggest issue is runes, but you usually find a +1 striking weapon to spare before the end of level 5 and you won't get any major DPR runes again until at least 8th. In practice I haven't actually seen much problem keeping 2 weapons plus doubling rings competitive until pretty late in the game, and even that might not be a problem depending on loot drops.
Switching hitting may not be worth it if you are a low strength crossbow type though, and it awkward on gunslingers with their janky proficiency.
The main problem with switch-hitting is you just don't need it 99% of the time, so any resources spent on it are essentially wasted: I think I made all of 3 ranged attacks in the entirety of Age of Ashes on my Halfling thief (I think it was one weak hit on a not flat-footed foe and two misses, so I really would have been fine without a ranged attack at all), and I don't recall our ranger archer being forced into melee in the half of AoA that he played with us.
If you want to be an archer, be an archer.
If you want to be melee, be melee.
Also, keep in mind that drawing a weapon provokes Attacks of Opportunity and Quick Draw does not change this (it specifically states 'You Interact to draw a weapon' and the Interact action has the Manipulate trait that provokes), so moving away and continuing to shoot your bow isn't normally any more dangerous to you than changing to melee...
aobst128 |
Captain Morgan wrote:Don't listen to the haters of switch hitting. If you max your strength and dexterity it works really well. The ranger in particular is great for it. You can rain arrows from 200 feet away without penalty in open ground, potentially forcing goes to waste multiple rounds closing on you. When they do close, quick draw the melee weapons for full strength to damage plus agile accuracy boosts.
The biggest issue is runes, but you usually find a +1 striking weapon to spare before the end of level 5 and you won't get any major DPR runes again until at least 8th. In practice I haven't actually seen much problem keeping 2 weapons plus doubling rings competitive until pretty late in the game, and even that might not be a problem depending on loot drops.
Switching hitting may not be worth it if you are a low strength crossbow type though, and it awkward on gunslingers with their janky proficiency.
The main problem with switch-hitting is you just don't need it 99% of the time, so any resources spent on it are essentially wasted: I think I made all of 3 ranged attacks in the entirety of Age of Ashes on my Halfling thief (I think it was one weak hit on a not flat-footed foe and two misses, so I really would have been fine without a ranged attack at all), and I don't recall our ranger archer being forced into melee in the half of AoA that he played with us.
If you want to be an archer, be an archer.
If you want to be melee, be melee.Also, keep in mind that drawing a weapon provokes Attacks of Opportunity and Quick Draw does not change this (it specifically states 'You Interact to draw a weapon' and the Interact action has the Manipulate trait that provokes), so moving away and continuing to shoot your bow isn't normally any more dangerous to you than changing to
...
Sad drifter noises.
Gortle |
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The main problem with switch-hitting is you just don't need it 99% of the time, so any resources spent on it are essentially wasted: I think I made all of 3 ranged attacks in the entirety of Age of Ashes on my Halfling thief (I think it was one weak hit on a not flat-footed foe and two misses, so I really would have been fine without a ranged attack at all), and I don't recall our ranger archer being forced into melee in the half of AoA that he played with us.
If you want to be an archer, be an archer.
If you want to be melee, be melee.
I think that is more a function of module design. I think Paizo have deliberately chosen to have close range (30ft and under) rooms and narrow passages. There is a need for front row melee and a role for ranged attacker behind. There are not many circumstances in module where being melee only is a problem. Which really distorts the versatility of being a switch hitter and the more mobile characters.
It works for virtual table tops. But I got annoyed with it and in a few scenarions arbitrarily doubled all the spatial dimensions.
My next game, I will be addressing that in encounter design as the GM.
Falco271 |
If you want to be an archer, be an archer.
If you want to be melee, be melee.Also, keep in mind that drawing a weapon provokes Attacks of Opportunity and Quick Draw does not change this (it specifically states 'You Interact to draw a weapon' and the Interact action has the Manipulate trait that provokes), so moving away and continuing to shoot your bow isn't normally any more dangerous to you than changing to
...
My 15th lvl soulforger dual weapon flurry ranger (STR based) also has a bow, and I've developed dex (18). The bow is his worst weapon, but it does have +2 greater striking by now. I can remember only one combat where he actually used the bow. So I agree, concentrate on your main thing, but having a backup never hurts.
And about the drawing, again, soulforger solves a lot of issues with that....
Gortle |
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Generally speaking, ranged/melee 'switch hitters' are considered a waste of effort: Once you pick a primary style (ranged or melee), the odds of you actually needing to use the other style is typically so low that there is little point in actually investing any resources in it..
I really hope not. As a Gm I go out of my way to force the PCs to adopt tactics other than charge in and kill everything. Yes it is their default mode, but I regularily require them to have ranged attacks or just stand there and be useless.
Claxon |
Taja the Barbarian wrote:Generally speaking, ranged/melee 'switch hitters' are considered a waste of effort: Once you pick a primary style (ranged or melee), the odds of you actually needing to use the other style is typically so low that there is little point in actually investing any resources in it..I really hope not. As a Gm I go out of my way to force the PCs to adopt tactics other than charge in and kill everything. Yes it is their default mode, but I regularily require them to have ranged attacks or just stand there and be useless.
It's one thing to require melee characters to have a backup bow/thrown weapon to deal with far away or flying enemies.
However ranged characters really don't need to have a backup melee weapon. Enemies with AoO are relatively rare, and the only reason you need to switch from your ranged weapon is to avoid those. Otherwise you can stand next to your target and fire away. It's a waste to spend feats on a second combat style in PF2 because you'll never excel at it.
And generally in a party if I have ranged character support I will expect them to go after distant or flying enemies while I take care of those that aren't. So unless the whole enemy group is distant or flying my melee fighter has something to do.
Gortle |
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It's a waste to spend feats on a second combat style in PF2 because you'll never excel at it.
Most combat styles are only marginally bettered by extra feats, once you have your core established.
I think it is always important for a character to have a plan B. I strongly prefer characters to have a second style.
I think it is wrong to expect the GM to give you the challenges you are built for. Yes they have to keep the challenge appropriate, and a GM who abuses his knowledge of your character sheet is being perverse.
Turgan |
If you use hatchets with Hunt Prey and Far Shot or Strong Arm you get to a range increment of 40 ft. (technically that's not 100 % correct, but you have no penalties inside of 40 ft). One hatchet should have the returning rune or you use quick draw and have some extra hatchets handy. + Flurry (-2/-4). Works well for me so far. Even better with light hammers (80 ft.)
Claxon |
Claxon wrote:It's a waste to spend feats on a second combat style in PF2 because you'll never excel at it.Most combat styles are only marginally bettered by extra feats, once you have your core established.
I think it is always important for a character to have a plan B. I strongly prefer characters to have a second style.
I think it is wrong to expect the GM to give you the challenges you are built for. Yes they have to keep the challenge appropriate, and a GM who abuses his knowledge of your character sheet is being perverse.
I'm don't agree, some play styles depend heavily on feats to be reasonably useful.
For example, if you want to fight with two weapons and you don't have something like Double Slice, you're worse off doing that than using a two-handed weapon and attacking twice via 2 strikes (assuming your using two weapons with two strikes).
But I agree that having a back up plan for when your main plan isn't viable is important. To me, that means melee characters need to have backup ranged weapons. Usually that's going to be a bow. Throwing weapons usually wont work out, because if the range is short enough you could throw the weapon, you could also probably move and strike them, especially if you have something like Sudden Leap.
For ranged characters, I think it's valid to have your backup plan being moving away from the enemy and continue shooting. Your stats aren't going to support being good at both ranged attacks and melee attacks. Sure you can use finesse weapons, but you'll pay on the damage die. And if an enemy gets in melee range of your character, you probably want to move away anyways. But only if they have an AoO, and even then you move away and continue your normal routine of shooting (though you might take an AoO) and ask your melee friend to help occupy that enemy.
I just don't see a big benefit to trying to grab feats for multiple combat styles.
Claxon |
I guess my point is, an archer or even throwing weapon based character doesn't really need a backup style. Enemies with AoO are rare enough, and kiting is viable in most cases.
Melee focused martial need to carry a backup bow, but if you don't have enemies in movement range to get into melee you probably can either plink away with your bow or have the whole party create/find/take cover and lure the enemy into you. Spending the feats on archery wont work as well because your dex mod is probably 3 or 4 behind your strength, so your chance to hit is reduced.
Again, I'm not saying don't have a backup plan, but I don't think those backup plans require investing feats on other combat styles.
Most combat styles are only marginally bettered by extra feats, once you have your core established.
And if you really believe this to be true, then there's only marginal benefit to melee characters to sink feats into archery. And for archers, assuming they have martial weapon proficiency, just grab the elven branch spear or spiked chain if you feel you absolutely need a backup. But in most cases your archer is fine to wield their bow in melee range.
gesalt |
As much as I like proper switch hitting, I find the need to even have a backup weapon on str characters drops off sharply around level 7 once flight spells show up and at 9 you can grab a flight tattoo or extending rune if it's somehow still an issue.
Dex characters can get a little more out of it since they aren't eating an effective -5 to accuracy, but it's just not economical to keep up for long.
Claxon |
How are you coming up with your -5 to accuracy?
Unless you mean switching from ranged attacks to melee results in a -5.
There's the issue of keeping runes on a backup weapon, and not having as high an ability score as your primary.
But unless I'm really forgetting, there's no penalty for shooting into melee like there was in PF1 or anything like that. So you can stand right next to an enemy that doesn't have an AoO and function just as well as you could at range.
gesalt |
I imagine he's talking about a 20 strength character with 10 Dex.
I think the problem with relying on Fly though is many monsters will have better fly speeds, and if they are attacking you from above you move upwards at half speed.
Unless you're dealing with extreme speeds (like a dragon), very long range or both it's not the worst situation. Even weighed down by plate, a high speed elf will ascend at 20-25ft per action. A red dragon that flies in and breath attacks the party is going to be 40ft away which at least gives you the chance to close in with sudden charge before it flies away. If it darts in, tails you, and darts away, it'll end up on your level meaning you can horizontally dash your speed and sudden charge to cover the distance.
The new collar of the shifting spider is actually great for this since you can keep a drakeheart in reserve and final surge for double stride as well.
It's not ideal by any stretch of the imagination but better than trying to fight a boss with such a steep attack penalty I'd think. Lesser opponents won't have a dragon's speed and can be chased down with much less trouble.
gesalt |
gesalt wrote:Even weighed down by plate, a high speed elf will ascend at 20-25ft per action.An elf in plate has a speed of 40'-50'?
Fly, Core Rulebook pg. 472
"Moving upward (straight up or diagonally) uses the rules for moving through difficult terrain."
Base 30 -5(plate) +5(fleet) +5(nimble elf) +10(longstrider wand) is 45. If you pick up boots of bounding (level 7 item) that's 50. Flying up is difficult terrain so 20-25ft
graystone |
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graystone wrote:Base 30 -5(plate) +5(fleet) +5(nimble elf) +10(longstrider wand) is 45. If you pick up boots of bounding (level 7 item) that's 50. Flying up is difficult terrain so 20-25ftgesalt wrote:Even weighed down by plate, a high speed elf will ascend at 20-25ft per action.An elf in plate has a speed of 40'-50'?
Fly, Core Rulebook pg. 472
"Moving upward (straight up or diagonally) uses the rules for moving through difficult terrain."
Oh, I know you CAN get a speed that high [mostly curious what you where doing] but I think your average martial is going to fall well short of that.
gesalt |
Oh, I know you CAN get a speed that high [mostly curious what you where doing] but I think your average martial is going to fall well short of that.
Then your average martial will lose yeah? Honestly, I like how the numbers work out. You basically have just enough speed to make the situation salvageable after getting every bonus possible with some leeway for base 25 ancestries able to hit 40 speed with the boots. That's a very nice reward for having some system mastery without it being an overbearing shadow over the game.
Claxon |
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There's other things to consider too. Like having someone in the party with the ability to trip a flying creature at range. Even if they don't land prone, if you time it right (by feeding until right after the dragon) you can get them in the ground for the rest of the party to deal with.
Remember, you're an adventure party. You don't have to solve the problem alone.
gesalt |
There's other things to consider too. Like having someone in the party with the ability to trip a flying creature at range. Even if they don't land prone, if you time it right (by feeding until right after the dragon) you can get them in the ground for the rest of the party to deal with.
Remember, you're an adventure party. You don't have to solve the problem alone.
Yeah, but where's the fun in just waiting for your archer ally to hit the low reflex dragon with the prone+stun arrow to put it on the floor and have it take fall damage?
Claxon |
There's other things to consider too. Like having someone in the party with the ability to trip a flying creature at range. Even if they don't land prone, if you time it right (by
feedingdelaying until right after the dragon) you can get them in the ground for the rest of the party to deal with.Remember, you're an adventure party. You don't have to solve the problem alone.
I've really got to do a better job of proof reading when posting from my phone.
Trixleby |
So let's say you've made a Goblin Ranger with a Wolf Animal Companion, and you're in PFS so no Free Archetype, and you plan on taking Cavalier Dedication at level 2 in order to give you animal companion again, and retrain out of animal companion at 1 into Twin-Takedown.
The idea of the build is to ride your wolf into Battle and fight atop its back using two short-swords. We are a dual-wielding build, so in that vein you choose Flurry as your dedication because a turn will often look like Hunt Prey, then Command An Animal to Stride on Wolf Back, then Strike with Animal Companion, which I believe then takes into account your personal MAP, followed up by Twin-Takedown at reduced MAP because Agile (Shortsword) and Flurry.
Level 4 is Impressive Mount. Level 6 is open. Swift Tracker? Quick Draw? Is level 6 where you can slot in a second fighting style such as Archery?
Level 8 is Incredible Mount
Level 10 is open. Maybe Camoflague? Maybe a two-weapon fighting feat? Maybe Soothing Mist to heal? Maybe Hunter's Vision to be the best tracker ever? Another Archery Feat?
Level 12 is Side by Side, because if you're riding your wolf this seems really good.
Level 14 is Specialized Mount and probably as far you can go in organized play altogether, so for all intents and purposes the build stops here.
Are there enough feat slots for multiple fighting styles? Would it be smarter to not use Short Swords and instead use Hand Axes which can be thrown? Does this give us a decent "Ranged" option? Do we take Far Shot at level 6? Can you Twin-Takedown with Thrown Weapons?
Do you build this character with Dex Primary for AC, Light Armor, good Stealth, good Thievery, then CON/STR/WIS? Do you do 18 Dex, 16 STR, then as much Con and Wis as you can get for HP and Saves? Or do you do 18 STR for mostly melee, 16 STR but you can still use a bow as a back up? In the Meantime are you particularly hurt by not having any archery feats?
Claxon |
Well, to be honest I would probably change your basis as I don't think Flurry synergizes well with an animal companion, or anything except being a turret archer.
Your probably going to want you animal companion to use support, move, or used advanced maneuvers and that means spending at least one action.
And any turn you need to hunt prey that leaves you with one action.
Now Twin-Takedown does get you two attacks for 1 action, but even with Flurry you're looking at probably 1d8 on one weapon and 1d6 for a second weapon with agile which will be at a -2.
Or you can make one attack with a d10 or even d12 weapon and get an extra d8 damage.
In general Flurry just isn't as good as Precision, but I do understand that sometimes you just want to be a dual wielding character even if it's not as good mathematically.
Trixleby |
Well, to be honest I would probably change your basis as I don't think Flurry synergizes well with an animal companion, or anything except being a turret archer.
Your probably going to want you animal companion to use support, move, or used advanced maneuvers and that means spending at least one action.
And any turn you need to hunt prey that leaves you with one action.
Now Twin-Takedown does get you two attacks for 1 action, but even with Flurry you're looking at probably 1d8 on one weapon and 1d6 for a second weapon with agile which will be at a -2.
Or you can make one attack with a d10 or even d12 weapon and get an extra d8 damage.
In general Flurry just isn't as good as Precision, but I do understand that sometimes you just want to be a dual wielding character even if it's not as good mathematically.
That's fair. It would mostly be for flavor. I think two-weapon fighting rangers are cool. Also some turn/planned feats involve more attacks, and attacking with the animal companion with most turns putting out probably 3 attacks (1 Wolf Attack, 2 from my character itself) and then some hunt prey's, some striding, potentially some focus spells (such as Heal Companion) etc. I think there's a lot of room. Then there's always the Mature Animal Companion I parked my character next to the monster free attack, twin-take down, then two more attacks for a full 5 attacks. :D
However back to the point, would he best be built with Dex to change between Ranged and Melee better, since I'd be behind by 1 or 2 points of damage via strength (14 or 16 strength, 18 dex) and maximum ranged capability, or go full strength (because melee build) and 16 (for AC, Reflex, etc) and take a Shortbow anyway? Or is the thrown weapon mixed with dual-wielding viable? Do we take Far Shot? Do we take Hunted Shot at any point? Do we forget ranged feats and just so happened to have a bow?
Serious questions. I wasn't trying to trick anyone into helping my build, but I did have a strong concept in mind.
I prioritize Tracking and Hunting as a concept, so this means good Survival, this means decent Wisdom, this means feats which interact with that part of the game such as Experienced Tracker and Swift Tracker from background and class.
Since we are tracking we are stealthy, we don't want to be seen following our intended target, and we are scouting, we're small and sneaky so we take very sneaky and feats that help us sneak.
Since we are self sufficient hunters (raised by wolves in 5e actually) we have learned to make our own armor, and if possible I'd like to interact with things like skinning slain dragons and making extra badass special armor from fallen monsters using Crafting rules.
And the #1 core identity to the character: Goblin Wolf Rider. It is a trope, but it's a trope because it's cool (I think.)
So we are a stealthy, sneaky, survivalists with the ability to take care of ourselves. I was looking at Camouflage for even more stealth, I was looking at Swift Tracker, and I was looking at pumping up the animal companion whenever possible as often as possible.
Maybe none of this really works in real life, I have only played 3 PFS scenarios on a Rogue, but this is the #1 character I would play in a home game.
Maybe Ranger isn't needed. Maybe Dual-Weapon Fighter is better, Double Slice and all that. Maybe we go Cavalier or Beastmaster as a Fighter and fill out with Agile Grace and Poise and all that Fighter stuff.
But all this said, should he be dex? should he be str? what should his back up weapon be? If he has a backup weapon does this make Quick Draw mandatory?
Claxon |
The terrible part is, since you're riding your mount you share MAP with it.
So even with Flurry reducing the penalty to attack, either your 2nd attack or your wolf's attack are going to miss almost all the time.
And thrown weapons pay a heavy cost to be thrown in terms of weapon die, and then needing additional items (thrower's bandolier) to be functional especially when if your riding your mount you want to get up in the enemy's face for your mount to be anything more than extra movement speed/*
*Well generally, most supports require your mount to be in reach of the enemy and strikes obviously do.
My suggestion is go like 18 strength 16/14 dex (whatever you can afford) and use a bow as backup when you need to make ranged attacks. Most of the time you'll be trying to avoid that, to either get you wolf to use support, or make attacks, or move you both into position.
Trixleby |
The terrible part is, since you're riding your mount you share MAP with it.
So even with Flurry reducing the penalty to attack, either your 2nd attack or your wolf's attack are going to miss almost all the time.
And thrown weapons pay a heavy cost to be thrown in terms of weapon die, and then needing additional items (thrower's bandolier) to be functional especially when if your riding your mount you want to get up in the enemy's face for your mount to be anything more than extra movement speed/*
*Well generally, most supports require your mount to be in reach of the enemy and strikes obviously do.
My suggestion is go like 18 strength 16/14 dex (whatever you can afford) and use a bow as backup when you need to make ranged attacks. Most of the time you'll be trying to avoid that, to either get you wolf to use support, or make attacks, or move you both into position.
I could be wrong, but from my understanding (and the reason I took flurry, actually) was because it would go: Hunter's Prey, Command an Animal (Stride, then Strike no MAP), then Twin-Take Down with Agile weapons thinking Shortsword, or now possibly Hatchet at (-2, then -4).
Would they really almost always miss? Then another idea is trading out Swift Tracker at 6 for a level 6 Far Shot and now due to Hunt Prey we ignore the 2nd Range Increment when striking against our hunt prey target so we are now at 20 ft. default with Hatchets and with Far Shot we double that out to 40 ft. Since the Hatchets are already in my hands for melee combat it flexes into an admittedly short ranged range attack with doubling rings and returning runes.
breithauptclan |
If you are not mounted on your Animal Companion, then it will use its own MAP progression for its attacks. If you are riding it, then you are using the Mounted Combat rules that specify that you and your mount use the same MAP progression.
Because of that, it could be more useful to go with Flurry instead of Precision since your normal attack routine involves attacks at full MAP.
And yes, full MAP attacks almost always miss - except for Flurry Rangers. With an Agile weapon, their MAP penalty at full MAP is only -4 - which is better than a lot of character's second attacks. It will still miss more than a first attack, but it isn't too bad.