I'm couldn't find similar question and as this is important to me, I need guys your guidance !
I had very unpleasant discussion with one of my players (I'm GM) who insisted that Savage Critical feat (player has Fighter character) will grant him activating Vorpal rune on 20 and 19.
Vorpal rune is activated when :
1.you roll natural 20 on strike
2.you critically succeed
3. make slashing damage
and savage Critical actually says that when u roll 19 and hit is success, you can apply effects as you rolled natural 20.
Vorpal rune - CRB 585 pg
Savage Critical - CRB 153 pg
I say he can't apply Savage Critical feat on Vorpal rune and player insisted that he will cut head with 19+ or he will leave...
Who is right ? Me or player ?
George
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Savage Critical says:
The wounds you inflict are grievous. When you Strike with a weapon or unarmed attack for which you have legendary proficiency, you critically succeed if you roll a 19 on the die as long as that result is a success. This has no effect on a 19 if the result would be a failure.
Vorpal's trigger says:
Trigger You roll a natural 20 on a Strike with the weapon, critically succeed, and deal slashing damage. The target must have a head;
Bolded for emphasis.
Savage critical turns successful 19s into crits, but Vorpal has three separate triggers connected with 'and', which means they all need to be fulfilled. A savage critical 19 only fulfills two of the three triggers. Vorpal requires a natural 20 and a crit, so it doesn't qualify.
If savage critical actually said
that when u roll 19 and hit is success, you can apply effects as you rolled natural 20.
your player might be right, but it doesn't.
That said if they're ready to quit the table over this it sounds like there might be more going on you should talk to them about.
Squiggit,
I read rules the same way as you did. Thanks for confirmation.
That guy was always eager to fight everyone, going for min/max all the time.. which is ok, but sometimes such bloodthirsty character becomes burden... anyways, he was great role player so I accepted so aggressive behavior, which was probably mistake.
We are playing Fist of the Ruby Phoenix, which I bought (hard copies from local club), never charged player for anything, brought everything from home, asked everyone to tell me if they think I'm doing something wrong or whatever, but WITH some constructive complaint ...
Dunno, maybe I made mistake. Never mind, thanks, this meant a lot to me !
Brgds George
I agree with Squiggit. But more importantly, any player that says he will leave if you don't give them the ruling you want is toxic. Let them leave.
Thanks !
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Yeah, you have the right of it.
I wouldn't go so quite as far as others who say to dump the player outright as there is a VERY real chance that a measured discussion about the rules and how their attitude is being perceived could help them see the light of day and reform, but if they insist on playing the part of a mule then it is probably best to tell them where to find the barn for the sake of the rest of your group.
Hi Themetricsystem,
I'm always trying to find some back roads to allow players to do crazy stuff if they REALLY want it... in this case i spoke with Asmodeus and he told me he would help me offering that guy some contract that would allow him to activate Vorpal rune on 19+
OFC, he probably wouldn't like what will be written in extra small letters at the bottom of contract, but he would get opportunity to do whatever he wants.
Unfortunately, we didn't manage to reach that point...
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First off, I definitely agree that the rune and feat don't actually interact in any fashion: You still need to roll a natural 20 to trigger the Vorpal effect.
But, I do have a followup question: Is the player in question aware that the Vorpal weapon rune effect has the dreaded Incapacitation trait, meaning even if you roll a natural 20, your target probably gets to keep its head on a failed fortitude save? Rare, Evocation, Magical
Price 15,000 gp
Usage etched onto a slashing melee weapon
Originally created as a means of slaying the legendary jabberwock, vorpal weapons prove equally effective against nearly any foe with a head.
Activate envision (death, INCAPACITATION); Trigger You roll a natural 20 on a Strike with the weapon, critically succeed, and deal slashing damage. The target must have a head; Effect The target must succeed at a DC 37 Fortitude save or be decapitated. This kills any creature except ones that don’t require a head to live. For creatures with multiple heads, this usually kills the creature only if you sever its last head. Source
Core Rulebook pg. 633 3.0
Since the rune is level 17, any Level 18+ foe actually needs to critically fail their Fortitude save to be decapitated (since a 'failure' is treated as a 'success'), which probably means they have to roll a 'natural 1' since I only see one level 18 creature in AoN with a Fort save less that +27 and even that one only needs to roll 4+ to keep their head.
This rune is really only 'good*' if you get it early (or somehow face lots of under-leveled foes), and since this thread is about its interaction (or lack thereof) with a level 18 class feat, I presume that is not the case here...
*DISCLAIMER: I struggle to label any effect that only works on a natural 20 as 'good' but at least against level 17 or under foes there is a reasonable chance they might actually lose their head when you do roll that well...
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Despite what many people are joking about (I hope) I do not recommend resolving this issue with in-game shenanigans. That is both toxic and unproductive.
Even if he isn't respecting you like an adult, that doesn't mean you need to demean yourself by acting unnecessarily childish.
Even if he isn't respecting you like an adult, that doesn't mean you need to demean yourself by acting unnecessarily childish.
One of funniest things is that we are quite old group... I'm 56 and that irritating player is 45 !?!?!?
If he was some child or some older younger person, than I could accept such behavior... but man !!!| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Even if he isn't respecting you like an adult, that doesn't mean you need to demean yourself by acting unnecessarily childish.One of funniest things is that we are quite old group... I'm 56 and that irritating player is 45 !?!?!?
If he was some child or some older younger person, than I could accept such behavior... but man !!!
Sounds like a rational conversation is in order. As adults you guys should be able to work through this like responsible, well-meaning adults.
Hhhopefully, you both end up in a place where everyone is having fun.
If he persists in being pushy at the detriment to everyone's fun (including yours) and refuses to compromise at all due to ego, stubbornness, narcissistic tendencies, or whatever, then I would (sadly) agree with those saying that he just might not be compatible with your group and/or play style.
It happens sometimes. He's perfectly free to go find another group, perhaps in 1st Edition where the GM didn't have as much rules protection against such players.
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Even if he isn't respecting you like an adult, that doesn't mean you need to demean yourself by acting unnecessarily childish.One of funniest things is that we are quite old group... I'm 56 and that irritating player is 45 !?!?!?
If he was some child or some older younger person, than I could accept such behavior... but man !!!
What I find disturbing is the fact that we are talking about a level 17 rune and a level 18 feat: Assuming this is not a 'what my character wants to do when he grows up' or 'build an endgame character' discussion, the player should have had enough time invested in the campaign that throwing a 'taking my ballcharacter and going home' ultimatum seems very odd...
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Even if he isn't respecting you like an adult, that doesn't mean you need to demean yourself by acting unnecessarily childish.One of funniest things is that we are quite old group... I'm 56 and that irritating player is 45 !?!?!?
If he was some child or some older younger person, than I could accept such behavior... but man !!!
This just made me happy- not for the tantrum throwing 45 year old, but just more people in my generation playing this game. :)
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This just made me happy- not for the tantrum throwing 45 year old, but just more people in my generation playing this game. :)Even if he isn't respecting you like an adult, that doesn't mean you need to demean yourself by acting unnecessarily childish.One of funniest things is that we are quite old group... I'm 56 and that irritating player is 45 !?!?!?
If he was some child or some older younger person, than I could accept such behavior... but man !!!
I'm 38. Lots of old people are playing this game.
I talk about it at parties (something that used to be somewhat taboo) and I am constantly running into people who are IN THAT MOMENT still active roleplayers.
It's SO much better than it was 20 years ago.
