Familiars


Rules Questions


if a player uses the druid/Swarm Monger archetype and he gains the wasp familiar feat to gain a 2nd familiar can he use his Fecund Familiar ability on his 2nd familiar ??


The wasp familiar feat states that you may only have one familiar.


u r right but what if u gain a familiar by other means??


I do not believe there is any way to get two familiars. Since this possibility is not intended there is no wording in any familiar ability or alteration that would specify which familiar it applies to.


there is one way that I've discussed before to temporarily gain a familiar. You can also duplicate a familiar.


Wasp familiar outright prevents having multiple familiars. Otherwise:

Levels of different classes that are entitled to familiars stack for the purpose of determining any familiar abilities that depend on the master's level.

So basically, you can only ever have one familiar.


Azothath wrote:
there is one way that I've discussed before to temporarily gain a familiar. You can also duplicate a familiar.

[PFS]Blood Sentinel:T3 {can't have a familiar}

[PFS]Duplicate Familiar:C5, touch so need not have a familiar BUT the target is a familiar. Not really efficient use of power Game wise.

Familiar Folio gave several options and those are just two. How that interacts with Wasp Familiar rules lands in the GM's lap but Duplicate should work.

[PFS]Druid Swarm Monger archetype with Fecund Familiar(Ex) and other abilities. The swarm monger must select her familiar from the following options: cat, house centipede-UM, rat, raven, or scarlet spider-UM.

[!pfs]Wasp Familiar feat (greensting scorpion or imp + changes) which acts like Familiar & Improved Familiar feat. Strong deity connection (requires user be a worshiper of Calistria & not commit gross offenses). You can have only one familiar.

[PFS]Calistria CN elven deity whose Areas of Concern, Domains and subdomains do not match Swarm Monger Druid(decay, fungus, disease, self reliance/ego, swarm, pollution) at all. It is highly likely that the wasp will turn on its master -OR- may never show up in the first place (GMs gray area).

Scarab Sages

willuwontu wrote:

Wasp familiar outright prevents having multiple familiars. Otherwise:

Levels of different classes that are entitled to familiars stack for the purpose of determining any familiar abilities that depend on the master's level.
So basically, you can only ever have one familiar.

Its a shame you can't combine animal companion and familiar into one fluffy companion.


Mammoth Spirit Shaman True Spirit Megafauna Companion combines your spirit familiar with an animal companion (at level 16 unfortunately).

Scarab Sages

Trokarr wrote:
Mammoth Spirit Shaman True Spirit Megafauna Companion combines your spirit familiar with an animal companion (at level 16 unfortunately).

Interesting if sadly limited not only in what you have to be to get it (mammoth shaman lvl 16) but also in what you can have since it must be a megafauna not say a cute labrador or black cat.


Dire animals are also available. Are you sure you wouldn’t like a cute and cuddly Dire Rat?

Scarab Sages

Trokarr wrote:
Dire animals are also available. Are you sure you wouldn’t like a cute and cuddly Dire Rat?

Yes, yes I am sure. The Goblin Rat was one the stories that haunted my childhood.


Senko wrote:
Trokarr wrote:
Mammoth Spirit Shaman True Spirit Megafauna Companion combines your spirit familiar with an animal companion (at level 16 unfortunately).
Interesting if sadly limited not only in what you have to be to get it (mammoth shaman lvl 16) but also in what you can have since it must be a megafauna not say a cute labrador or black cat.

shaman nature spirit gets the same ability but without the restriction on what animal you can select for the companion. You could have cat familiar’s spirit in the body of a cat.


you can hav two familiars if you ake a witch and druid


MR CRITICAL wrote:
you can hav two familiars if you ake a witch and druid

The third paragraph of the general familiar rules (as quoted by an early responder here) states:

"]Levels of different classes that are entitled to familiars stack for the purpose of determining any familiar abilities that depend on the master's level."

So no, a witch/ druid multiclass would not grant two familiars.


where dose it say u cnt hav two familiars from different classes?


To my knowledge there is no general rule that states you may not have more than one familiar however in general most class abilities that grant familiars will stack so you will normally only have one familiar. There are several exceptions to this though. For instance if you have a wizard familiar with the Figment archetype and then take levels in witch your wizard familiar will not stack with your witch levels as the rules for the Figment archetype state that it cannot act as a witches familiar so this will result in 2 non stacking familiars. Another way to get multiple familiars is if you can gain both familiars from the same class as the stacking rules state that levels in DIFFERENT classes stack for the purposes of familiars abilities. If multiple familiars are granted by the same class then you do not possess levels in “different classes” and therefore gain multiple familiars. The easiest example of this is with the Crossblooded Sorcerer archetype. Both the Arcane and Serpent bloodlines grant familiars so you would gain 1 from each bloodline (assuming you select those bloodline powers). These are not the only ways to get multiple familiars. Anytime you have class features granting familiars that are incompatible with each other then the result is multiple non stacking familiars.


I can only repeat the following quote

"Levels of different classes that are entitled to familiars stack for the purpose of determining any familiar abilities that depend on the master's level."

If you read that and believe you can have two familiars (without a stated exception) then I suppose you and I understand the way the rulez work very differently.


yes Levels of different classes that are entitled to familiars stack for the purpose of determining any familiar abilities that depend on the master's level but there is no general rule that states you may not have more than one familiar??


If the levels are stacking you are getting 1 familiar at the total level of ability. That is how the rules are written.


No there is no GENERAL rule that states you may only have one familiar, just as there is no general rule that states you may only have on animal companion. That said the vast majority of class features that grant either will result in features that stack.

Scarab Sages

Java Man wrote:

I can only repeat the following quote

"Levels of different classes that are entitled to familiars stack for the purpose of determining any familiar abilities that depend on the master's level."

If you read that and believe you can have two familiars (without a stated exception) then I suppose you and I understand the way the rulez work very differently.

So how would you handle the figment/witch combination? A figment can't be a witch's familiar but you have to have a familiar for witch so if you take a figment familiar first then a level witch what happens?


Well, first I ask the player what they are trying to accomplish with this paradox. Then I see 3 options, 1) follow the faq on druid/cavalier multiclass which reccomends not to do it but says if you do you get two pets with levels that do not stack.
2) declare that since a witch (or shaman) cannot have a figment, and since familiar levels stack, the figment archetype is dropped. Or 3) say no.

I don't see a clear answer to this in the rules, so I'm not sure which way I'd go.


he becomes a real boy


TO the OP: no, you couldn't use a Wasp familiar for the Fecund Familiar ability. That class ability specifically calls out the familiars it works on:

Fecund Familiar wrote:
The swarm monger must select her familiar from the following options: cat, house centipede, rat, raven, or scarlet spider. The fecund familiar gains the benefits of its master’s child of pollution, shadowy opportunist, and venom immunity class abilities.

Since Wasp isn't listed here I don't believe it is an eligible target for the Fecund Familiar ability. If you gained a Wasp familiar as a 2nd familiar, you'd have one Fecund Familiar and one other familiar.

My question is... why would you want 2 familiars, even if they could both be Fecund Familiars? Shifting your Familiar into swarm form is a Standard action for the PC, so putting 2 out in the same fight means your PC isn't doing anything else for combat for 2 rounds. If you're instead just trying to get double the amount of minutes per day you can have a single swarm in battle, why? Like, if you start the game with an 18 Wis, do you sincerely anticipate more than 4 fights/day where you're going to need a Fecund Familiar?

Familiars aren't ACs or mounts. They advance in some minor ways but they never gain feats w/out choices you make in your build. It takes time and potentially gold to get them to a place where they are somewhat capable of use in battle. Sure, swarm form would give them some decent protection in a fight but, well, just consider: a kobold Adept 4 is a CR 1 foe. That one kobold, if they stay alive long enough to get to within 15' of your swarm and cast a single spell, could deliver a 4d4 Burning Hands spell with at least a DC 13 Ref save.

Now, if your familiar in swarm form fails that save, that's an average 10 Fire damage; against a swarm that's 15 Fire damage on a failed save. At level 1 that single CR 1 foe has slain one of your familiars. Like, I'm just sayin', these creatures, even in swarm form, are fragile and need work to care for. Are you sure you want to take on the work of managing TWO of those on your PC?

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