Advice for Slayer


Advice


Greetings!

I have a question about a slayer I am building. I am trying for an intimidate build and these are the feats/talents I have selected up to L6. Human for extra slayer Talent.

L1 - Intimidating Prowess / Power Attack
L2 - Menacing, Dazzling Display
L3 - Hurtful
L4 - Rogue Talent - Weapon Focus
L5 - Signature Skill
L6 - Menacing Shatter Defense
L6 - Rougue Talent - C. SMASH

Am I Building this right or should I have had Signature Skill come on at L7?

Should I not take dazzling Display at all and do Intimidating prowess at L2 and a different feat at L1?

For instance, Frightening Ambush works great with Shatter Defense so even if I miss i keep the shaken effect going. So do I take Frightening Ambush at L1 and give up Dazzling Display or just take it at 7?

Or do I keep what I have, forget Frightening Ambish and just go with Violent Display?

Thanks!


Slayers also have access to Killing Flourish...

Prerequisite(s): Intimidating Prowess, Intimidate 4 ranks, slayer level 4th.

Benefit: When you reduce your target to below 0 hit points with a melee attack, as a swift action you can attempt an Intimidate check to demoralize all foes within 30 feet who can see your attack.

Grand Lodge

Are Menacing and Menacing Shatter Defences 3rd party feats/slayer talents?
Has your GM approved signature Skill Intimidate? It kind of robs the unchained rogues unique skill abilities for a feat.


*Khan* wrote:

Are Menacing and Menacing Shatter Defences 3rd party feats/slayer talents?

Has your GM approved signature Skill Intimidate? It kind of robs the unchained rogues unique skill abilities for a feat.

Menacing is the fighting style for the Ranger Combat Stype Slayer Talent. Signature Skill was allowed, just no 3rd-party material.

Grand Lodge

Funny i didn’t think of that!

You could skip dazzling display altogether. The ranger style feats ignore prerequested feats.
The rogue talent at 4th level could be something else if you can find any thing more attraktive.

L1 - Signature Skill Intimidate / Power Attack
L2 - Menacing Intimidating Prowess
L3 - Hurtful
L4 - Rogue Talent - Weapon Focus
L5 - Killing Flourish
L6 - Menacing Shatter Defense
L6 - Rougue Talent - Cornugon Smash


*Khan* wrote:

L1 - Signature Skill Intimidate / Power Attack
L2 - Menacing Intimidating Prowess
L3 - Hurtful
L4 - Rogue Talent - Weapon Focus
L5 - Killing Flourish
L6 - Menacing Shatter Defense
L6 - Rougue Talent - Cornugon Smash

^---- This looks pretty solid. I would consider going Dreadful Carnage at level 10, and then retrain Killing Flourish. <--- Talk to your DM and make sure he's cool with that though. You want to be using your Swift Actions on Hurtful and applying Studied Target to multiple foes at a time, and Dreadful Carnage turns this Intimidate into a Free Action. It might not sound like a big deal, but it's a noticeable boost to your Action Economy.

=================================================================

For levels 7-12, since you seem like you want to be a little Ambush-y, I'd recommend getting Hellcat Stealth --> Hellcat Pounce to get 2 attacks during the Surprise Round. I'd also consider getting Accomplished SnA for an additional 1d6 on your SnA and Fast Stealth so you can move at full speed while stealthing. If poop hits the proverbial fan, now you have the option of Stealthing in combat even while actively observed (albeit at a -10 penalty). You can offset this penalty with Ring of Chameleon Power for a +10 competence bonus to Stealth, as well as At-will Disguise Self.

Getting 2 attacks in the Surprise Round can ensure that your target is Intimidated on the first attack, and then Shatter Defenses with the 2nd attack, so when you start Round 1, you can get a full attack vs. a fully Shatter Defenses target, and that ends up being a decent amount of SnA damage for a Surprise Round + 1 Full Attack. I would also plan on spending 12,000gp to get Boots of Speed for Free Action Haste for additional movement speed, but more importantly, a +1 to attack and an additional attack per round. You should be able to get another attack during your Round 1 Full Attack due to Hurtful too, so yeah :) This is definitely a MAKE MANY WHACK build :)

Also, if you choose to go the Ambush-y route, I would recommend that you take Focused Study for your level 1 human bonus feat instead of Signature Skill: Intimidate. This gives you Skill Focus at 1st, 8th, and 16th level.

Quote:
Focused Study: All humans are skillful, but some, rather than being generalists, tend to specialize in a handful of skills. At 1st, 8th, and 16th level, such humans gain Skill Focus in a skill of their choice as a bonus feat. This racial trait replaces the bonus feat trait.

Then I would put Skill Focus (Intimidate) at level 1, and Skill Focus (Stealth) at level 8, and maybe Perception for level 16. Once you have 10 ranks in these, you'll have a +6 to both Intimidate and Stealth. AND THEN, you can simply take Signature Skill: Intimidate as a feat somewhere between levels 7-12, wherever you have room.

===================================================================

If you're not keen on Hellcat Stealth, Hellcat Pounce, and Accomplished SnA, then maybe Cleave ---> Improved Cleaving Finish?, or Step Up & Strike chain might interest you if you want to be better at closing the distance vs. enemies who 5ft step to get away from you.

You might even consider going for Imp/Gr Dirty Trick, Quick Dirty Trick, and get Dirty Trick Master at level 11. Now you can add Blind and Nauseate to your bag of tricks. Then you'd have two ways of forcing SnA (Blind & Shatter Defenses), and this is a good thing to have because some enemies are immune to intimidate/fear or immune to flat-footed conditions, and you'd gain significant crowd control with an Un-removable Nauseated condition.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Consider a dip in Thug rogue, to turn your intimidate checks from "shaken" into "frightened" instead.


Another thing I forgot to mention is that since you're investing so heavily into Intimidate, you really should get a +1 Cruel enchant on your weapon by around level 6, then you can pile on the debuffs with Shaken/Sicken combo for -4 to attack, skills, saves, and abil checks, as well as -2 damage. The casters in your party will <3 you for that -4 to saves, and that's a significant boost to party survivability having a -4 to attack from foes that you shaken/sicken. As an added bonus, you'll gain 5 Temp HP after each time you kill a foe.

Cruel will still work with Frightened if you go with the Thug dip like Kurald Galain suggested.

Grand Lodge

Kurald Galain wrote:
Consider a dip in Thug rogue, to turn your intimidate checks from "shaken" into "frightened" instead.

Thug is only relevant until level 5. There Signature Skill Intimidate kicks in.


Signature skill cannot be taken before 5th level. The prerequisite is 5 ranks in the chosen skill.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

*Khan* wrote:
Kurald Galain wrote:
Consider a dip in Thug rogue, to turn your intimidate checks from "shaken" into "frightened" instead.
Thug is only relevant until level 5. There Signature Skill Intimidate kicks in.

The catch is that Signature Skill Intimidate gives a saving throw vs frighten, and Thug rogue does not.

Grand Lodge

Nice catch both of you.
That makes Thug clearly better and opens up a feat slot.


ummm, there are conditions, see Rogue Thug archetype which makes it more difficult to cause the frightened condition for 1 round.

As most martial classes rely on Feats, Brawler with Martial Flexibility can be handy.
Intimidation Slayer Build thread, 09-2019
Compilation of Class Guides @ZG
Items That Can Save You thread


I would go something like this:

Human Slayer - 25 pt buy : Ambushing/Knockout specialist and Intimidate-focused

20 Str (18 + 2)
12 Dex
11 Con
12 Int
10 Wis
14 Cha

=================================

Traits:

Inspired - Once per day as a free action, roll twice and take the better result on a skill check or ability check

Child of the Moon - Choose either Climb, Stealth, or Swim. You gain a +1 trait bonus on checks made with the chosen skill. On dates during and after the first quarter of a lunar phase but before end of the last quarter (the half of the lunar cycle where the moon is fuller), this bonus increases to +2. During the full moon, this bonus increases to +4. (choose Stealth)

=================================

Alternate Race Traits:

Focused Study: All humans are skillful, but some, rather than being generalists, tend to specialize in a handful of skills. At 1st, 8th, and 16th level, such humans gain Skill Focus in a skill of their choice as a bonus feat. This racial trait replaces the bonus feat trait.

=================================

Weapon:

Use an Earthbreaker or a Lucerne Hammer for Bludgeoning.

=================================

Feats:

L1Slayer1: Skill Focus (Intimidate), Enforcer

This is going to be a rough start, I grant you. But stick to the plan and you'll be a freaking beast.

L2S2: Ranger Combat Style: Menacing (Dazzling Display)

L3S3: Sap Adept

We need Sap Adept for Sap Master, which is going to be a massive boost to your damage later on.

L4S4: Slayer Talent (Jaguar's Grace)

No more -4 penalty for nonlethal attacks.

L5S5: Weapon Focus

L6S6: Menacing (Shatter Defenses), 6/6 Slayer FCB: Combat Trick: Violent Display

Violent Display: When you land a successful sneak attack or confirm a critical hit against a creature with a weapon with which you have Weapon Focus, you can use Dazzling Display as an immediate action.

Now you can Shatter Defenses to force SnA when you can't Flank or Ambush, and with Violent Display, you can Dazzling Display whenever you land a SnA. You'll be AoE Intimidating once every round, provided that you land at least one SnA, and that's why I dropped Hurtful. Your Swift Action/Immediate Action is going to get spent on this probably every round.

Get a +1 Cruel Enchant on your weapon asap for the Shaken/Sicken combo for -4 Att/Saves/Skills/Abilchecks and -2 damage.

L7Thug1: Disheartening Display

Disheartening Display: When you successfully use Dazzling Display against any shaken, frightened, or panicked opponents, their fear increases by one step. An already panicked creature demoralized by this feat cowers. Once affected by this feat, a creature cannot be affected by it again (by you or anyone else) for 24 hours.

This is what we're building for right here---^ With Thug, your Intimidate check from Dazzling Display becomes Frightened. Disheartening Display feat turns this into Panicked. You now have AoE Panicked pretty much at Round 2 of every fight (or in round 1 if you SnA during a Surprise Round), because you have to Frighten them first with Dazzling Display and then once they're already frightened, your next Dazzling Display the following round increases the fear by one step to Panicked, and then they go back to Frightened every round after Panicked condition drops. But you're basically just a big ol' fear bomb that goes off every round.

L8Slayer7: Skill Focus (Stealth)

Studied Target is now Swift or Move Action, so whenever you're not using your Immediate Action for AoE Intimidates, use your Swift Action to apply Studied Target to other enemies. At level 7 Slayer, you also get your Studied Target bonus to Intimidate, Disguise, and Stealth, so if you have time before combat starts, put your Studied Target on as many enemies as possible.

L9S8: Feat: Sap Master, Rogue Talent: Fast Stealth

Get Boots of Speed 12,000gp by this level. Now you can move full speed while stealthing, and haste brings this up to 60ft per round. And more importantly, you get an extra attack per round.

Your SnA should be 2d6 from Slayer and 1d6 from your Thug dip, so 3d6. With Sap Master, you can now deal 6d6+6 with non-lethal bludgeoning. Once an enemy's nonlethal damage is = to their current hit points, they're Staggered, so that's Move or Standard actions only, and once their nonlethal damage exceeds their current HP total, they're unconscious. Non-lethal damage starts becoming Lethal damage once you exceed their overall maximum HP total.

So this is a pretty nifty way to neutralize targets quickly. You can decide to Coup de Grace them once the fight is over, or maybe you can keep them alive in case you need to interrogate someone. But, this is a fast way to knock targets unconscious by using nonlethal Sneak Attacks.

L10S9:

Your SnA is 4d6 now, so your non-lethal SnA is 8d6+8, and your Skill Focus for Intimidate and Stealth increases from +3 to +6

L11S10: Feat: Hellcat Stealth, Rogue Talent: (Underhanded)

Underhanded: A rogue with this talent gains a +4 circumstance bonus on all Sleight of Hand checks made to conceal a weapon. Furthermore, if she makes a sneak attack during the surprise round using a concealed weapon that her opponent didn’t know about, she does not have to roll sneak attack damage, and the sneak attack deals maximum damage. A rogue can only use the underhanded talent a number of times per day equal to her Charisma modifier (minimum 0).

Get a Headband of Alluring Charisma and then upgrade it whenever you get some extra coin. Dealing Maximum un-rolled SnA twice a day is probably plenty though.

With Hellcat Stealth, now you can now *poof* right in the middle of combat if things get too dicey. I would get a Ring of Chameleon Power so you can Disguise Self at will and have a +10 Comp Bonus to Stealth by this level.

You don't really need Dreadful Carnage, and with Boots of Speed, Fast Stealth, and Underhanded, you can fast stealth 60ft and perform an instant knockout with Weapon dmg + unrolled 8d6+8= 56 SnA dmg. And now with Hellcat Stealth, you can just round1: *poof* SnA, round2: *poof* SnA, round 3: *poof* SnA, going around and knocking out several targets if you wanted to.

L12S11:

L13S12: Feat: Hellcat Pounce, Slayer Talent: Feat (Accomplished Sneak Attacker), 6/6 Slayer FCB: Feat: Power Attack

Your SnA is now 6d6, or 12d6+12 for non-lethal. Level 13 Rogues have 7d6 SnA, so 6d6 on a Slayer by this level is really good. Your BAB is at 12, so that's 3 attacks per round. 4 attacks per round with Haste. So that's 48d6+48 per round in just SnA damage, not including your weapon damage. That's an average of 216 non-lethal damage per round if all your attacks hit.

Your Surprise Rounds just got really nasty with Hellcat Pounce, now you get 2 attacks in a Surprise Round. Freaking brutal.

At level 13, you should have 13SkillRank + 3ClassSkill + 6SkillFocus + 1to4ChildoftheMoonTrait + 4GreaterHeroism + 10Chameleon Power + 1dex + 20-40Greater Invisibility = +58 to +61 Stealth while moving, and +78 to +81 Stealth while standing still. Increase this by +3 vs. your Studied Targets. And subtract -10 if you *poof* while being actively viewed. I'm going to guess that your Strength is around 24 by this level, so your Intimidate should be 13SkillRank + 3ClassSkill + 6SkillFocus + 4GreaterHeroism + 7Str +2Cha = +35 to Intimidate

The DC to Intimidate someone is 10 + the target’s Hit Dice + the target’s Wisdom modifier, so with a +35 you should be landing these consistently.

=================================

Gear/Enchants:

Ring of Chameleon Power

Potions of Greater Heroism

Wand of Greater Invisiblity

Cruel and Ominous Enchant for weapon

Belt of Strength

Headband of Charisma

Boots of Speed <---- make these a priority, haste is going to be very critical to your success and I would get these Boots even if you have a friendly neighborhood wizard in your party who can buff you, because what if he can't buff you and you really need Haste like right now right now.


Okay, so I have already made the character and we are a couple of sessions into my character after my last character's death. RIP Paladin bros....

Wanted my guy to be a Viking that kills giants, really fun!

This is for the giantslayer AP

So here's my current character as this stuff is now locked in... - 25 Point Buy

18 Str +3 Racial via Alchemically Enhanced
16 Dex +1
16 Con
14 Int
10 Wis
7 Cha

L1 - Intimidating Prowess / Power Attack
L2 - Menacing -Dazzling Display
L3 - Hurtful
L4 - Rogue Talent - Weapon Focus
L5 - Signature Skill
L6 - Menacing Shatter Defense
L6 - Rogue Talent - C. SMASH
L7 - Violent Display

Traits - Bruising Intellect / Dwarven (Ulfen house Rule) raised.. +2 AC vs giants as its for dem heavy hitting giants.

Ryze Kuja wrote:
Another thing I forgot to mention is that since you're investing so heavily into Intimidate, you really should get a +1 Cruel enchanton

I actually have a +1 Greatsword with cruel already!

Items I'm keeping handy are potion of enlarge person, bull's strength, gravelly tonic, Elixir of Thunder voice, potion of protection from evil, tangleburn bag, oil of versatile weap.

Any items you guys can think of since my dumbars thought fighting giants with a greatsword was a good idea?

I have a +21 to my intimidate via the Maiden's Helm, Belt of Str, bruising Int, skill ranks and class bonus.

So I believe taking violent display at 7 would be best. That just brings up two possibilities... I love the build Ryze put forward, but it is a bit too late for that.

Now mind you this is for the giantslayer AP. So, do I retrain Sig Skill to something else, maybe the step up feat as I took it at 5 or do I keep wat I have and add on with the Rogue Thug? An extra d6 to SA and adding 1 to the shaken condition in case of missing is very appealing.

Downside, I lose stalk which gives me that +2 to intimidate for my studied target and my +3 to studied target comes online at 11 with and as I'm told Giantslayer ends at about 16.


As a slayer you can uniquely qualify for Killing Flourish and Gruesome Slaughter (demoralise + sickened 30 ft. radius). You will also meet prerequisites for Dastardly Finish and Merciless Butchery which allows to Coup de Grace as a Standard action cowering creatures (which you'll inflict with Signature Skill).

I'd go with something like that for the remaining levels:

L7 Violent Display or Killing Flourish
L8 Combat Trick Cornugon Smash (intimidate as a free action when you use Power Attack)
L9 Accomplished Sneak Attacker (you need 5d6 sneak attack to qualify for Dastardly Finish)
L10 Improved Critical
L11 Gruesome Slaughter (if you picked Killing Flourish at 7th) or Disheartening Display
L12 Ninja Trick (Feat) Dastardly Finish
L13 Merciless Butchery

Cornugon Smash seems like a must as it looks like your build lacks demoralising as a free action which is a must for Intimidate builds.


*Khan* wrote:

Nice catch both of you.

That makes Thug clearly better and opens up a feat slot.

Not getting a saving throw is an advantage, but all the thug can do is cause 1 round of frightened. Signature skill can cause even greater condition all the way up to panicked. The conditions can also last longer. With 15 ranks of intimidate the frightened condition lasts as long as the character would normally be shaken.

Grand Lodge

Mysterious Stranger wrote:
*Khan* wrote:

Nice catch both of you.

That makes Thug clearly better and opens up a feat slot.
Not getting a saving throw is an advantage, but all the thug can do is cause 1 round of frightened. Signature skill can cause even greater condition all the way up to panicked. The conditions can also last longer. With 15 ranks of intimidate the frightened condition lasts as long as the character would normally be shaken.

Most combats 1 round is enough and when the target runs away, they can trigger a couple of AOO depending on the placement of allies and the timing.

Ex.
The non ranged players delay their actions and let the enemy close in. If possible make/place some difficult terrain in front of the group to prevent charging enemies.
Then dazzling display and clean up when the mooks turns and run.

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