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The members of the Roseguard were Vol Rajani, Otari Ilvashti, Aesephna Menhemes, and Zarmavdian. As of the time of AV, two descendants of these four, Oseph Menhemes, the Mayor of Otari, and Carman Rajani, who owns Blades for Glades. What of the other two? It's unlikely that Otari would have been married when he died simply because he was an adventurer, and mostly I would expect adventurers to defer marriage to retirement. And wizards being the kind of people who hole up and just study the arcane I can see Zarmavdian having no descendants. So I guess what I'm asking is when the Rajani family returned to Otari after Maklanni Menhemes revitalized the town.
I'm trying to figure out when and how the Menhemes family came into possession of the Cooperative Blade.
I'm trying to figure out when and how the Menhemes family came into possession of the Cooperative Blade.
I think this part is explained in the Campaing Timeline, in the Ruins of Gauntlight book:
290 ar The last Roseguard passes away, and Otari begins to fall into decline.
4294 ar Otari is abandoned.
4300 ar Stonescale kobolds colonize Otari.
4310 ar Yarlaip seals his tribe’s fate by luring ships to their doom; the Stonescale kobolds are soon thereafter
defeated by adventurers. Maklanni Menhemes leads the resettlement of Otari.
4323 ar Construction of the Otari Mill and log flume is completed.
Maklanni found the blade in the ruins of Otari after driving out the Kobolds, at least that's what I reckon.
Not sure when the Rajani's returned, though.
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I dunno, Haydriel. When the town was abandoned in 4294 wouldn't any surviving Rajanis have taken the sword with them? In 4290 or earlier, assuming Vol *had* descendants (and she must have, else where did Carman come from?) the sword would have passed to them.
I would think the Rajanis and Menhemes of the day would move to, say, Absalom, but would still maintain contact with each other. And the Rajanis would still have the sword. Maybe later on the Rajani family ran into difficulties and sold the sword to the current Menhemes (or borrowed from them and left the sword as collateral -- I think I like that better). If the sword was collateral, Carman (and Ioseph) may or my not know that. Given Carman's personality, I'd say he doesn't know, but Ioseph? He may very well know and is messing with Carman's head.
One does wonder what a 10000+ year old magical sword is worth, of course. 250 gp seems to me a serious undervaluation. But even that is significantly more than Ioseph has asked of Carman for the sword so far.
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I didn't ignore the possibility I just figure it to be unlikely.
Yeah, Golarion's populations seem to be a lot more mobile than one would expect from their presumed technology level. I detect a bit of anachronism there.
OTOH, there's no indication in the canon that Carman Rajani is anything other than a direct descendent of Vol.
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I suppose that's possible.
Just to point out, the Roseguard were a thing only 500 years ago. It is not a 10000 year old sword.
Also, the Menhemes having a tenuous claim to the Blade is an intended plot point. "Finders keepers" may have been a legally sound argument 400 years ago. Possession is nine tenths of the law, etc. But that claim feeling wrong by modern sensibilities is the whole reason Carman feels entitled to it and why the party has a difficult decision to make once they capture him.
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Just to point out, the Roseguard were a thing only 500 years ago. It is not a 10000 year old sword.
No?
Despite its pristine and gleaming appearance, the Cooperative Blade is incredibly ancient, created in pre-Earthfall Nidal.
The Pathfinder Core Rulebook was first published in the year 2019, with the Inner Sea region’s corresponding year ending in the same two final digits. Golarion’s history is expansive, but two of the most significant events to shape the world occurred in –5293 ar, when Earthfall nearly brought an end to the world, and in 4606 ar, when Aroden, the god of humanity, died, and prophecies the world over began to fail, beginning the Age of Lost Omens.
The current year is 4722 AR. 4722+5393 = 10,115 years. The Cooperative Blade is more than 10,000 years old. QED.
Also, the Menhemes having a tenuous claim to the Blade is an intended plot point.
Agreed.
But that claim feeling wrong by modern sensibilities is the whole reason Carman feels entitled to it and why the party has a difficult decision to make once they capture him.
Carman Rajani doesn't know squat about "modern sensibilities". He's venal, greedy, and frankly, delusional. That's why he feels entitled to the sword.
Doh, missed that. You're right.
Anyway, I'm not sure what point you're making about the sword's possession. Yes, the sword not going back to the Rajani's is questionable, but the town was abandoned and the Menhemes came and reclaimed it, not them. Clearly the descendants of the Rajanis returned to town after Menhemes took it back from the Kobolds, but they didn't press their claim to the sword hard enough to get it back. It is possible they felt at the time the Menhemes family had earned it, or maybe it was a bitter pill to swallow but they didn't have a chance going against the more powerful and popular family.
Or if your concern is the Rajanis not taking the blade with them... One assumes they weren't able to. Either the Kobolds had already knicked it or the Rajanis were in too much of a hurry to get it. We don't know what the Stonescales did precisely but clearly it was pretty bad to get people to abandon a town.
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Not making any point, trying to figure out how the sword came into the Menhemes' possession.
Not making any point, trying to figure out how the sword came into the Menhemes' possession.
Then the answer is pretty straightforward: the Rajanis failed to bring it when they fled Otari and it fell into Kobold hands. Then Menhemes came back to reclaim the town and got the sword in the process.
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Hm. Certainly possible. ;-)
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I also wonder how it is that a ten thousand year old magical blade is worth only 250 gp. :-)
I also wonder how it is that a ten thousand year old magical blade is worth only 250 gp. :-)
I guess that's just based off it's actual value as a weapon. Magical weapons don't seem to rust or decay with time which probably makes their age a little less relevant for resale value.
I'd say you could probably fetch more for it, but you'd need to find the right buyer which could be difficult. It strikes me as something you could do with Roseguard Lord to earn income, but anyone who is enthusiastic enough about it to buy it would probably question why you aren't returning it to the town of Otari.
I'm also not sure how you prove a sword is thousands of years old, for that matter. I feel like there's gotta be a lot of counterfeiting. And then there's the fact that 10,000 year old items are more common than they used to be with Thassilon getting pulled into the present. All that could drive down the value of the blade.
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"It's been in my family for generations!"
"How many generations?"
"Well, two."
:-)
"It's been in my family for generations!"
"How many generations?"
"Well, two."
:-)
I just want to add that I think that Ed's question is reasonable, valuable, and that the answer is not straightforward.
Than you for raising it, Ed.
For my take, I think the history and such is all rushed and a bit murky, I take this as an invitation to retcon as you like (this is hard for me personally as I want things to all fit in, but...)
As for the sword, I just took it as the going rate for the raw materials (not the actual trade value for reasons you have provided). I also make all the items in the Roseguard Epics, and the sword an artifact. I often link it to Aroden