Secret Invasion


Television

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Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

Trailer just released at D23 today! I can't wait to see Nick Fury in action and in full espionage mode. Also the return of Maria Hill, James Rhoads/War Machine, and Martin Freeman's Everett Ross character only a few months after Black Panther 2. I'm guessing there will be a lot of other MCU characters showing up, or at least their Skrull impersonators.

What existing MCU characters do people think have been Skrulls for a while?

Scarab Sages

Could be interesting. As with most other things MCU these days, I’m cautiously pessimistic. Still, it’s more difficult to screw up with Samuel L. Jackson as the (possibly) main character.


I just enjoy the whole "14 versions of the same guy" while Sam is like "I might have screwed this up..."

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

This looks really good. I love superhero shenanigans and I also love dark gritty spy stuff in a universe with superpowers/high tech. Love I can see both sides in this universe. Loving the emphasis on intrigue here.

Happy to see Maria again and glad Rhodey has what looks like a strong part. He seems to never quite get enough screentime.

Will we see Monica Rambeau in this?


I think it's doubtful, but who knows, DQ.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Maybe not Secret Invasion but we know she will be in the Marvels. From what I hear the film is going to be Carol, Monica and Kamala all swapping places with each other as they use their powers.


So like, anyone but me watching the show?

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

I am. In short it is the upcoming Marvel thing I was most looking forward to, and perhaps as a downfall of managing expectations poorly, it is what I am most disappointed by.

As with all shows I think at least have potential, I am giving it four episodes (yes, I realize there's only six). If I'm still underwhelmed/bored, I'll probably not watch the rest.

I'll speak to my problems in a later post as many are spoilery.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

I'm enjoying it, but would have preferred a Nick Fury at the top of his game, not having to get back into it. I figured he still knew what was going on enough up in space, and hadn't gone into hiding there.

That being said, I also am expecting that he knows more than he's letting on, and will pull a few rabbits out of his sleeve. Really enjoying the spy/thriller storyline as a nice change of pace from the typical superhero plots in MCU, and they're doing an excellent job with deep cuts/Easter eggs which are highly plot relevant. They also have done a fantastic job with the dialogue, both in terms of the interactions between characters, some great quotable lines, but also the throw away line here and there which do a good job to explain why certain things AREN'T in the show. That's a big pet peeve of mine with lots of shows, when the audience wonders "why didn't they just do...." which is obviously something the characters would consider, but they just completely ignore. Most of the time, a line or two of dialogue can explain why they didn't, but most shows don't include that, and leave it up for fans to come up with reasons why. The fact that Secret Invasion actually HAS those lines though makes me happy.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

I will admit this episode was better than prior and I may as well stick it out for the last two episodes. I'm still not enchanted, but there were at least enough interesting twists and cool character moments that I did get a little turned around.

WHen Talos described his plan, I was not convinced. Sadly I can see why Gravik is drawing more and more followers.

JoelF847, I think I come on the other side of things than you do when it comes to dialogue. I've struggled with the dialogue being overly expositiony. I feel like the actors have had to work hard to take some mouthful/"as you know, Bob" lines and bust their butts to make it sound natural. I don't need every single thing explained to me or spelled out. Some things are not important enough that you can't just infer something or another wasn't an option, IMO. I get what you are saying and I think a lot of audiences want more explanation, however, which is why the script is the way it is.


Meh


Spoiler:
About the presidents last announcement. He kicks the aliens out of earth. Rocket Raccoon whoa whoa whoas I was born here "holds up metal sign" see?

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

It was a fine ending.

Overall I (for once) had high expectations and they weren't quite met--felt like pacing was off and again, often for my tastes dialogue was often too expositiony. But it ended better than it started. I'm still pissed off about the end of episode 1 (a friend was insisting that was a fakeout, but I was pretty sure it wasn't and am sad to be right).

Loved the big fight. Also loved the one twist of who showed up where.

And I realize this is highly, highly unlikely, but I am just putting out into the universe that I would devour every single episode, moment, and merchandise of a Sonia Falsworth series. Beyond just being awesome, she's clearly the evil test tube child of Peggy Carter and Dottie Underwood and I am HERE for her, forever. #Carterwood


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Looking over at New Asgard where folks having a beer and watching the tellie just looked at each other and said "Wait what did he say?"


I'm sure Asgardians don't count...

Liberty's Edge

Thomas Seitz wrote:
I'm sure Asgardians don't count...

You’re sure?


Pretty sure. I mean if Gorr meant to kill ALL gods...and Thor is an Asgardian...then he wouldn't have tried to kill anyone NOT a god. Correct?

Liberty's Edge

Thomas Seitz wrote:
Pretty sure. I mean if Gorr meant to kill ALL gods...and Thor is an Asgardian...then he wouldn't have tried to kill anyone NOT a god. Correct?

No idea - like you, I am not one of the writers or producers involved in the show or the wider MCU, so I can’t be sure, I can only speculate.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

I'm guessing that it includes Asgardians, and that might be part of why he's destined to be a 1-term president. I was hoping for a post credits scene with Thunderbolt Ross deciding that this guy was an idiot and should be more worried about Earth born superheroes, especially now that the Sokovia Accords are gone, and deciding to run for president - setting up the Thunderbolts movie.

As for Maria Hill, isn't she in the Marvels movie? So somehow she's coming back. My money is currently on her being an LMD. I think the movie is supposed to be after Secret Invasion.


Joel,

That makes NO sense to me. If we believe ALL of the MCU is cannon, then logically Asgardians are Gods. Otherwise what was the fing point of Gorr the God butcher?


Being a God does not in and of itself preclude one from also being an alien


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Wait are you suggesting that a reactionary policy from a United States President is based in some part on the actions of someone who called himself a God Butcher?

Like dude woke up and said “we’ll hunt down the aliens, except those people because the God Butcher said they were gods”

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

How one personally defines god versus alien aside, President Ritson specifically declared anyone not from earth enemy combatants. He didn't specify aliens or gods or anything else. His wording implied anything non-terrestrial.

Asgardians are from off world, no matter what else you want to call them. Asgardians, I am assuming until proven otherwise, are included, as are Kree, any of the Guardians of the Galaxy except Peter, that shapeshifting elf in She-Hulk, the Eternals if somehow they get caught out as being non human, and Korg. Among others I've probably forgotten about.

His declaration would also apply to folks from other dimensions and the like.

Luckily for the Asgardians, they are in Scandinavia (Norway, I think?) so can't/won't be immediately attacked by the U.S.

But yes, he probably created an international incident and various other massive problems in doing so and is probably one of the reasons why Ross becomes president. Of course they kind of handwave the idea that Congress would easily vote to support such a declaration of war, but then perhaps that isn't so ridiculous.


Well since DQ, explains it better, then yes, Asgardians count as Non-terrestrial. Even if they are gods. But I'm just saying a) if you discount Gorr's belief in gods and/or his need to kill them, then you're basically saying that Asgardians aren't gods. Which makes no sense to me.

But if President Ritson is saying "No more non-terrestrials!" then that's different.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Thomas Seitz wrote:

Well since DQ, explains it better, then yes, Asgardians count as Non-terrestrial. Even if they are gods. But I'm just saying a) if you discount Gorr's belief in gods and/or his need to kill them, then you're basically saying that Asgardians aren't gods. Which makes no sense to me.

But if President Ritson is saying "No more non-terrestrials!" then that's different.

Why do the actions of the President have to account for the opinion of Gorr the God Butcher?


Man I gotta imagine Rhodey is going through some major trauma and one of the first things he gets hit with, is Tony's dead.

So he is going into Armor Wars with "I should have Been there" screaming in his head.


Eternals are at least as much from earth as humans are. You could make a strong case for the Asgardians as well, depending on your take on the metaphysics of gods in the MCU.

But that's all parsing the President's language too finely. It's perfectly reasonable for him to want them all gone, even if he's technically wrong about some of the categories.


thejeff,

Not sure about that but okay.

dirty,

Why do they have to? I'm sure Ritson probably doesn't know about any of that, but in the whole "MCU is a story arcs" it should. Otherwise it makes no sense from any story perspective.


Le sigh


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Thomas Seitz wrote:


in the whole "MCU is a story arcs" it should. Otherwise it makes no sense from any story perspective.

So narratives should ignore any sense of reality and treat the characters in the series as if they are also the audience for the series?

What kind of sense does THAT make?


The sense that you clearly are taking my words out of context and phrasing them in such a way to justify you're own take that has NO bearing on the fact that ASGARDIANS ARE NOT ALIENS!!!

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

Thomas Seitz wrote:
The sense that you clearly are taking my words out of context and phrasing them in such a way to justify you're own take that has NO bearing on the fact that ASGARDIANS ARE NOT ALIENS!!!

I don't understand how you can think that. Thor Ragnarok pretty clearly showed that Asgard was on a planet somewhere, it was destroyed, and the survivors escaped on spaceships, and went to Earth. That's about as clearly alien from another planet as possible. Just because they set up a interdimensional transport using bifrost to nine realms, and didn't use spaceships themselves to get around doesn't mean they weren't aliens.

In the MCU you can pretty clearly make the case that the Egyptian gods, Greek gods, etc. aren't aliens, but Asgardians are. Sure, they pal around with the other gods at times, as shown in Thor Blood and Thunder, but that doesn't stop them being aliens themselves.


ASGARDIANS ARE ALIENS!!!


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Thomas Seitz wrote:
The sense that you clearly are taking my words out of context and phrasing them in such a way to justify you're own take that has NO bearing on the fact that ASGARDIANS ARE NOT ALIENS!!!

Not in the least. I’m asking you what the hell Gorr the god butchers claim of godhood for the Asgardians has to do with President Ritson who as a fictional character in that world has never seen that movie to know what the hell Gorr said in the first place.

As far as Ritson knows is that the Asgardians arrived from their HOME PLANET in a SPACESHIP and built a refugee camp in an unpopulated area of the world during the blip. That sure would sound like aliens to me.


....I give up...


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

That’s probably for the best.


Tristan d'Ambrosius wrote:
ASGARDIANS ARE ALIENS!!!

I'm not saying their aliens..but aliens! /meme

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

... Is it time to bring this in?


No but I still am standing by it after Loki season 2 trailer drops...

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

Thomas Seitz wrote:
No but I still am standing by it after Loki season 2 trailer drops...

That's like saying an apple isn't a fruit because it's an apple. Things can be in multiple categories.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Greylurker wrote:
Man I gotta imagine Rhodey is going through some major trauma and one of the first things he gets hit with, is Tony's dead.

It's not clear how long he's been there, but given he's in a hospital gown and needs to be carried out.... yeah, it seems their intention was he's been there since Civil War.

Mind you, it brings some real life vs movies stuff into conflict in my mind. I have a friend who had a severe spinal cord injury. (No, wasn't flying an armored suit, just slipped and fell in such a way her head hit the bedpost behind her and she broke her neck). When she was in shock trauma, she wasn't just not able to move, she had danger of various organ failures and was on a vent for weeks. Therapy took years, and of course she is wheelchair bound.

So when did they move Rhodey because it seems like realistically if it was directly after the accident, they wouldn't have been able to keep him alive. And if they moved him say, after all life signs were stable but they were transferring him to therapy... that has horrendous implications as to his ability to recover from his injuries. Being in stasis when therapy demands movement... it should mean any potential he had to be able to walk again would be gone. I know they will likely just handwave something with alien phlebotinum not making it so bad, but that cheapens the idea of and nature of the injury for the people who suffer them... including not just people like my friend but wounded warriors who he represents. (As it is, I hate how they minimize extremity trauma with amputees like Bucky. Even if you get a magic prosthetic losing a limb impacts you mentally and emotionally. They did do a good job on Iron Fist with Misty.)

I hope they address whatever is going on with his injury and recovery fully and seriously.

Quote:
So he is going into Armor Wars with "I should have Been there" screaming in his head.

If Armor Wars is still being made...

And he might also be as likely thinking, "Why didn't you know? Why didn't you find me?" The Skrulls are really good at impersonation, especially with the memories they can harvest, but a human--irrational creatures at the best of times--can be convinced "surely my family/friends would know me to know a fake." He could be filled with a lot of bitterness. I just hope Don Cheadle is given a chance to play out whatever Rhodey is going through...


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Thomas Seitz wrote:
No but I still am standing by it after Loki season 2 trailer drops...

Standing by what dude?


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
DeathQuaker wrote:
So when did they move Rhodey because it seems like realistically if it was directly after the accident, they wouldn't have been able to keep him alive.

Of course medicine, like morality, is not one size fits all. Your friends spinal cord injury is not everyones spinal cord injury. In the film Captain America Civil War we saw Rhodey, without the need to be on a ventilator, while he was in the hospital.

DeathQuaker wrote:
that has horrendous implications as to his ability to recover from his injuries.

No more horrendous than the prior implication that he was only mobile because his rich friend built him a custom prosthesis.

DeathQuaker wrote:
As it is, I hate how they minimize extremity trauma with amputees like Bucky. Even if you get a magic prosthetic losing a limb impacts you mentally and emotionally.

This is another case of not having enough information. Bucky lost his arm, and then spent 70 years having his emotions and memories controlled by former Nazi scientists. Did they minimize his trauma, or did they simply just not show it because it would have been at its sharpest during the period of time our story did not take place in?


If you didn't see the trailer, it's not on me to make you understand my position that's I've stated clearly like 5 times...


So are all Asgardians gods? Like every single last one of the nameless background Asgardians? Like every single one? Everyone in the ship attacked by Thanos?

I wonder what all their powers are? What are all their powers Thomas?


Probably heightened strength and endurance. The RPG phrase is 'brick' so no doubt they could flip a car and shrug off damage that would take us out.


So New Asgard is full of gods from another planet who pose as a threat to earth due to their enhanced abilities?

Sounds like an extremist President would want them off planet being as the are powerful alien...gods


I mean in the comics, most Asgardians that aren't specified in say, Poetic Edda, are generally something like this: Powers and Abilities


So a a potential threat with powers like that? And from some alien to earth place? They need to leave.

Lets do the American thing and lump all aliens together and kick them off planet.


Now you sounds like Norman Osborn...

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