Saedar's Playtest


Kineticist Class


8 people marked this as a favorite.

Hello, forum-friends!

Wanted to get my playtest stuff out earlier but life, ya know? I also may have bit off more than I initially anticipated.

So, what is this? I decided to really put the kineticist through the ringer across a variety of levels. I ran the encounters but did not make or run the characters.

Disclaimers:
While I generally don't care much about the concept of RAW, I tried to stick as close to RAW as I could for the purposes of the playtest.
Inevitably, there are places where we messed something up. I don't really care to have the comments get too tied up in that unless a more correct ruling would have dramatically changed the context of the encounter or nature of the feedback.
This playtest project was something of a living experience and I've tried to note when changes to my initial expectations took place.
I've tried to capture some of the encounter context but the general feel of the class was my primary interest.
My encounter balance was a bit questionable early on but I tried to adjust later.
The goal wasn't to tightly optimize but rather to have competent characters filling their desired niche.
I'm going to try and be fancy with formatting. Apologies if it all crashes down.

The setup:
Sets of three encounters at levels 1, 5, 10, 15, 20.
Encounter difficulty will scale Low => Moderate => Severe.
Single 10-minute rest between encounters 1 and 2. Reset hero point before encounter 3.
In the event of a TPK, advance to next encounter fully rested.
Variety of creature types.
Party will grow 1-20 and must have at least one kineticist.

The party:
Beef - Druid (Leaf/Wild)
Barley - Witch (Curse)
Carrot - Kineticist (Dedicated Earth - STR)
Soup - Kineticist (Universal - DEX)

Please don't ask about the names. Players are weird and do incomprehensible silliness. The intent behind the group was that the druid and the earth kineticist would be the front-line with the witch and universal kineticist playing more at range. Moving forward, I will be referring to the characters by their names. That is how I took my notes, so deal with it. :)

I'm going to lead with some general thoughts so no one needs to dig through fifteen encounters. Following that, I will have the more-detailed encounter-by-encounter feedback and data. By its nature, critical feedback can come off pretty negative and the internet only makes that worse. So, before anything else: I really like the core of what the Kineticist has going on. The concept of having a planar portal just chilling in/on/around/within/whatever your character is something I hadn't really considered. Having some interesting twists based on your Gate choice was fun. Treating Elemental Blasts as unarmed attacks (kind of...) was what I was hoping for (sort of...). I wanted a class that can toss fire all day long and this absolutely delivers in a cool way. Definitely a strong start, imo.

Kineticist Player Feedback wrote:


STR-Kineticist felt very vulnerable and took a lot of crits.
Elemental Blast not technically being an unarmed attack and thus not being able to interact with unarmed build options felt incredibly restrictive. (Example: Oread Feat 'Metal-Veined Strikes')
Overflow felt a bit clunky for trying to fill a similar mechanical niche as Flourish.
Would have been nice to be able to pick Strength or Dexterity for Key Ability, or for Constitution to have had more of a moment-to-moment impact.
Golem Antimagic is brutal, especially for Dedicated Kineticists who can't flex elements.
Most/All actions carrying the 'Manipulate' trait became a horrible experience once things with Attacks of Opportunity started to show up.
Most utility Impulses felt kind of ineffectual or overly limited.
Please provide more access to Cold and Electricity damage for Water and Air respectively.
Do more with Auras and less with traditional AoE blast shapes.
Remaining Questions wrote:


How does 'Elemental Weapon' interact with Golem Antimagic?
If you activate a lasting effect using an Elemental Impulse, does that effect remain if you Gather a different element? (Example: 'Wings of Air' and then switch to Fire.)

Encounter-by-Encounter Breakdown:

This section gets its own disclaimer. I'm not going to format my notes. I thought about it. I just don't feel like it. Apologies.

The notes are written in Markdown, so you can drop them into a Markdown previewer of your choice if you feel so inclined.

Quote:


# Level 1
Theme: Delve into an ancestral tomb where locals have claimed to hear horrifying sounds and strange lights at night.

## Encounter 1
x2 Skeleton Guard

x1 Spider Swarm

Small antichamber outside underground tomb.

### Combat
Guard1 4-6 (TKP: B)

Guard2 4-2 (Elemental Blast R: Fire)-10 (Elemental Blast M: Earth)

Swarm 12-6 (Elemental Blast R: Fire) -4 (Elemental Blast M: Earth 6, Resist B 2)-12 (Hydraulic Push)

**Init**

Soup 22

Skel2 20

Swarm 18

Carrot 6

Beef 5

Barley 5

Skel1 5

### Notes

Took ~1.5 rounds.

After fight, party did Treat Wounds. One person suffered a crit fail.

## Encounter 2
x2 Ghouls

Deeper in tomb eating the bones of the long dead.

### Combat
Ghoul1 20-4 (Haunting Hymn)-4 (Phanton Pain)-4 (Mental Persist)-2 (Fire Blast)-3 (Fire Blast)

Deafened 1min, sickened 2, 1d4 mental persist

Ghoul2 20-9 (Longspear)

**Init**

Barley 23

Carrot 19

Soup 15

Ghoul1 14

Ghoul2 12

Beef 8

### Notes
TPK. Ghouls ate party.

Retro: Couple unfortunate rolls. Dedicated Fire's player said that the pure 1d6 on the ranged blast felt really weak. 1-2 failed Strikes would've hit with an 18 in Attack stat.

Reviving to fully rested for encounter 3.

## Encounter 3
x1 Drow Priestess (Weak)

x2 Hunting Spiders (Weak)

Demonic altar in the crypt chapel filled with roots from above that are bleeding.

### Combat

Spider1 6-4 (Earth Blast)-9 (Earth Blast)

Spider2 6-3 (Aerial Boomerang, 6 before Save)-2 (Scatter Scree)-2 (Aerial Boomerang)

Drow 24-3 (Aerial Boomerang, 6 before Save)-4 (Phantom Pain)-5 (Scatter Scree)-2 (Tremor)-2 (Aerial Boomerang)-6 (Earth Blast)-4 (Air Blast)

**Init**

Drow 27

Spider1 27

Carrot 25

Spider2 21

Soup 20

Barley 11

Beef 10

### Notes
Two PCs knocked.

Retro: NPCs made some very poor and very good rolls. Melee+Str dedicated Earth feels good. Ranged+Dex Universal feels bad. Continue to feel the lack of the 18 in attack stat. Don't recall any rolls that would've been swung this fight.

# Level 5
Theme: Demons push their giant worshipers to mine for some dark artifact.

## Encounter 1
x2 Ogre Warriors

x2 Trollhounds (Weak)

Ogres are pulling heavy carts while hounds supervise.

### Combat

Ogre1 50-24 (Fire Blast)-7 (Fire Blast)-3 (Persist Fire)-6 (Persist Fire)-19 (Earth Blast)-17 (Earth Blast)

Ogre2 50-4 (Tremor)-12 (Needle of Vengence)-12 (Needle of Vengence)-8 (Animal Form: Bite)-12 (Needle of Vengence)-16 (Fire Blast)

Hound1 50-10 (Earth Blast)-18 (Earth Blast)-11 (Animal Form: Bite)-9 (Animal Form: Bite)+15 (Regeneration)-12 (Earth Blast)-3 (Animal Form: Bite; 17 overkill)+15 (Regeneration)-11 (Fire Blast)-10 (Weakness: Fire)

Hound2 50-24 (Fire Blast)-10 (Weakness: Fire)-20 (Earth Blast)

**Init**

Carrot 19

Barley 19

Hound2 16

Beef 14

Hound1 14

Soup 12

Ogre2 11

Ogre1 6

### Notes
No PCs dropped. Balanced rolls. After fight, some treating of wounds. 1 PC spent hero point.

Retro: Str Earth Kineticist feeling solid. Universalist continues to feel weak with fire but better than level 1 encounters.

## Encounter 2
x1 Abrikandilu

x3 Vermlek

Guarding entrance into deep quary.

### Combat
Abri 70-7 (Scorching Ray)-11 (Earth Blast R)-17 (Earth Blast)-16 (Longspear)-16 (Longspear)-13 (Earth Blast) X

Verm1 55-11 (Scorching Ray)-4 (Flame Blast)-1 (Persist Fire)-16 (Longspear)-17 (Longspear)-38 (Earth Blast) X

Verm2 55-24 (Earth Blast)-7 (Fire Blast)-14 (Fire Blast)-2 (Persist Fire)-13 (TKP) X

Verm3 55-5 (Hydraulic Push)-8 (Fire Blast)-4 (Fireblast)-16 (TKP)-42 (Longspear) X

**Init**

Barley 27

Beef 24

Carrot 24

Abri 17

Soup 16

Verm2 16

Verm3 16

Verm1 13

### Notes
Party prebuffed as they walked into the quarry to engage. Party didn't focus fire too well but rolled decently.

Retro: Universal Gate is growing on player but still feels kind of weak.

## Encounter 3
x1 Invidiak

x1 Nightmare

Supervising the artifact's excavation.

### Combat

Inv 90-7 (Earth Blast; 12-5 resist)-2 (Fire Blast; 7-5)-7 (Tremor; 12-5)-1 (Fire Blast; 6-5)-8 (Earth Blast; 13-5)-25 (Longspear; 30-5)-5 (Fire Blast; 10-5)-13 (Longspear; 18-5)-2 (Earth Blast R; 7-5)-10 (TKP; 15-5)-8 (Earth Blast; 13-5)-3 (TKP; 8-5)

Night 100-2 (Fire Blast; 12-10 resist)-5 (Barbed Quils)

**Init**

Inv 31

Carrot 26

Beef 25

Night 21

Soup 19

Barley 14

### Notes
TPK. NPCs got very good save rolls. Party overfocused on Shadow Demon, which drew the fight out with resistance all. Fire is still kind of weak. Switched to Earth. Now we have double Earth Blasts.

Retro: Kineticists felt very limited in things to do.

# Level 10
Theme: A fetid swamp filled with strange sounds and the smell of putrid flesh, despite none being seen.

## Encounter 1
x1 Bida (Elite)

x4 Hill Giant (Weak)

Bida has hidden area behind illusion and looks like an elderly woman on a porch. Giants are hidden behind the "houses".

### Combat

Bida 155-7 (Vampiric Maiden)-13 (Malicious Shadow)-38 (Malicious Shadow)-21 (Chain Fire Blast)-13 (Malicious Shadow)-15 (Chain Fire Blast)-38 (Malicious Shadow)-9 (Chain Fire Blast)-21 (Earth Blast)

HG1 120-18 (Chain Fire Blast)-23 (Earth Blast)-19 (Aerial Form: Pterosaur)-5 (Persist Fire)-22 (Earth Blast)-18 (Earth Blast)-22 (Aerial Form: Pterosaur)

HG2 120-30 (Chain Fire Blast)-2 (Persist Fire)-19 (Aerial Form: Pterosaur)-19 (Aerial Form: Pterosaur)-1 (Persist Fire)-18 (Fire Blast)-15 (Chain Fire Blast)-5 (Earth Blast)-15 (Tremor)

HG3 120-19 (Fire Blast)-20 (Flame Eruption)-14 (Chain Fire Blast)-17 (Aerial Form: Pterosaur)-15 (Aerial Form: Pterosaur)-19 (Chain Fire Blast)

HG4 120-28 (Chain Fire Blast)-1 (Persist Fire)-14 (Chain Fire Blast)-26 (TKP)-26 (Chain Fire Blast)-38 (Earth Blast)

**Init**

Barley 36

HG3 33

Soup 31

Carrot 30

Beef 29

Bida 28

HG4 27

HG2 24

HG1 14

### Notes
Chain blast predictably strong on large group of lower level enemies. First fight where kineticists have meaningfully contributed to damage.

Retro: Chain blast felt great. Flexibility of Universal Gate starting to come through. Dedicated Earth remains fun.

## Encounter 2
x1 Adult Black Dragon

x2 Flesh Golems

Dragon is napping in a cave with some flesh golem guards.

### Combat

Dragon 215-21 (Aerial Form: Pterosaur)-13 (Shadow Blast: Fire)-10 (Curse of Death)

Golem1 140-30 (Chain Fire Blast)-17 (Aerial Form: Pterosaur)-24 (Dagger crit)-30 (Shadow Blast: Fire)-15 (Aerial Form: Pterosaur)-22 (Dagger crit)-20 (Blast Barrage: Fire)

Golem2 140-18 (Chain Fire Blast)-28 (Shadow Blast: Fire)-17 (Blast Barrage: Fire)-20 (Fire Blast)-24 (Fire Blast)

**Init**

Dragon 44

Barley 34

Beef 33

Golem2 31

Carrot 25

Soup 24

Golem1 17 X

### Notes
Party got drop on golems. Dragon spent first round waking up. Carrot dropped top of second round to dragon breath crit fail. Many bad rolls. Party wiped on round 5. Being locked down to a single element was particularly rough on our Earth Kineticist. Universal could just choose to be fire. Earth had to fall back on a dagger.

Healed group to fully rested to continue with next encounter.

Retro: Is "Elemental Weapon" countered by golem antimagic? Chain blast is infuriating when you fail that first roll. Happened multiple times this fight due to poor rolls. How does golem antimagic (harmed by) interact with basic Saves? Antimagic is really rough.

## Encounter 3
x1 Derghodaemon

x2 Greater Shadows

Demon smashing around some ruins. Shadows pop up when demon screm.

### Combat

Derg 240-25 (Chain Fire Blast)-15 (Chain Water Blast)-20 (Malicious Shadow)-24 (Chain Water Blast)-10 (Chain Water Blast)-16 (Malicious Shadow)-4 (Spike Skin)-4 (Haunting Hymn)-25 (Aerial Form: Beak)-7 (Flame Eruption)-20 (Earth Blast)-14 (Shadow Blast)-20 (Earth Blast)-4 (Spike Skin)-22 (Malicious Shadow)-22 (TKP)

Shadow1 75-3 (Chain First Blast, sans Weakness)-12 (Water Blast, sans Weakness)-6 (Chain Water Blast, sans Weakness)-14 (Earth Blast: Ghost Touch)-15 (Earth Blast: Ghost Touch)-14 (Earth Blast: Ghost Touch)-6 (Chain Water Blast, sans Weakness)-30 (Aerial Form: Beak, sans Weakness)

Shadow2 75-18 (Earth Blast: Ghost Touch)-19 (Earth Blast: Ghost Touch)-20 (Earth Blast: Ghost Touch)-8 (Aerial Form: Beak, sans Weakness)-38 (Earth Blast: Ghost Touch)

**Init**

Beef 38

Soup 37

Carrot 37

Shadow1 32 X

Shadow2 27 X

Derg 26

Barley 21

Spawn 20 X

### Notes
Beef got confused first round. Hit Carrot with Beak. Stepping Stone used to good effect to beat on a flying shadow.

Retro: Hard fight. Universal feels stronger but Dedicated Earth still feels ok. Feels like a lot of chip damage.

Addendum: Reviewed my encounter balance a bit and things have definitely been tuned a little on the harder side than I was wanting to shoot for. Retuned some of the later encounters.

# Level 15
Theme: A corrupted monestary built into a mountain with a prestine First World lake at the very top.

## Encounter 1
x2 Shadow Giant

### Combat
Giant1 275-19 (Fire Blast)-26 (Malicious Shadow)-47 (Dragon Shape: Brass Breath)-56 (Earth Blast)-36 (Chain Fire Blast)-56 (Dragon Shape: Bite)-41 (Dragon Shape: Claw)

Giant2 275-47 (Dragon Shape: Brass Breath)-66 (Earth Blast)-25 (Earth Blast)-26 (Water Blast)-27 (Water Blast)-25 (Dragon Shape: Bite)-56 (Dragon Shape: Claw)-60 (Earth Blast)

**Init**

Barley 42

Beef 41

Giant1 39 X

Carrot 28

Soup 28

Giant2 24 X

### Notes
Much smoother for the target difficulty.

Retro: Starting to really feel the utility benefit. Elemental Blast crit specializations were fun.

## Encounter 2
x2 Fire Yai (Weak)

x2 Ice Yai

The Yai are training in the central chamber of the corrupted monestary.

### Combat

Fire1 230-30 (Dragon Form: Shock Line)+15 (Regen)-7 (Spike Skin)+15 (Regen)+7 (Regen)-37 (Cycling Water Blast: Frost Rune)-38 (Cycling Water Blast: Frost Rune)-63 (Cycling Water Blast: Frost Rune)

Fire2 230-8 (Spike Skin)+8 (Regen)-41 (Cycling Water Blast: Frost Rune)-61 (Cycling Water Blast: Frost Rune)-45 (Cycling Water Blast: Frost Rune)

Ice1 230-22 (Chain Water Blast)+15 (Regen)+7 (Regen)

Ice2 230-60 (Dragon Form: Shock Line)-26 (Dragon Form: Claw)-38 (Cycling Water Blast)-23 (Earth Blast)+15 (Regen)-8 (Spike Skin)-27 (Earth Blast)+15 (Regen)-59 (Fire Blast)-21 (Persist Fire)

**Init**

Barley 46

Soup 38

Carrot 36

Fire1 35

Ice2 31 X

Beef 30 (Moved due to KO)

Fire2 28

Ice1 27

### Notes
Unsure if switching to a new element dismisses an active aura, as the aura trait does not include "switching element" as one of its removal criteria. I ruled that existing auras would go away if you gather a new element.

Blessed rolls for NPCs. Maze (Witch) took Ice1 out for 3 rounds.

TPK.

Retro: Everything provoking AOO is incredibly rough. Melee kineticist feels non-viable when things have AOO. Water not being able to deal Cold damage and benefit from Ice Yai weakness would feel very bad had they not had the Frost rune. Universalist elemental flexibility somewhat helpful.

## Encounter 3
x1 Water Yai (Weak)

x1 Elemental Vessel, Water

Top of the mountain, sitting next to the fantastical lake.

### Combat

Yai 275-19 (Fire Blast)-18 (Fire Blast)-29 (Dragon Form: Bite)-18 (Clan Dagger)-51 (Dragon Form: Acid Breath)-37 (Dragon Form: Bite)-38 (Earth Blast)-21 (Clan Dagger)-19 (Fire Blast)-39 (Dragon Form: Bite)

Vessel 225-25 (Dragon Form: Acid Breath)-8 (Needle of Veng)-8 (Needle of Veng)-34 (Earth Blast)-23 (Water Blast1)-8 (Needle of Veng)-8 (Needle of Veng)-8 (Needle of Veng)-24 (Longspear)-34 (Magic Missile)-24 (Water Blast)-23 (Water Blast)

**Init**

Soup 41

Yai 37 X

Vessel 37

Beef 32

Barley 30

Carrot 29

### Notes
PCs rolled better and made some better use of tactics.

Retro: Kineticist player upset that you cannot combine Elemental Blast with Haste (or similar). Melee kineticists versus AOO are, again, a terrible experience.

# Level 20
Theme: A massacered city with a terrible ritual taking place in the center to bring forth something even worse.

## Encounter 1
x1 Cairn Linnorm

x3 Leydroth

Dragon laying across the shattered battlements surrounding the town while the leydroth feast on the dead below.

### Combat

Cairn 360-40 (NoV)+15 (Regen)-40 (NoV)+15 (Regen)-40 (NoV)-40 (NoV)+15 (Regen)-40 (NoV)-40 (NoV)-40 (NoV)-20 (Chain Water Blast)+15 (Regen)-26 (Pheonix Beak)-33 (Chain Water Blast, sans Resist)+15 (Regen)-64 (Pheonix Beak)-54 (Pheonix Beak)-41 (TKP)

Ley1 315-18 (Water Blast, sans Resist)-20 (Linnorm Breath, sans Resist)-22 (Earth Blast, sans Resist)-30 (Pheonix Beak)-24 (Pheonix Talon)-8 (Chain Water Blast, sans Resist)-24 (Pheonix Beak)-32 (Pheonix Beak)-42 (Earth Blast, sans Resist)-26 (Earth Blast, sans Resist)-16 (Chain Water Blast, sans Resist)-29 (Pheonix Beak)-37 (Pheonix Talon)

Ley2 315-5 (NoV, sans Resist)-5 (NoV, sans Resist)-5 (NoV, sans Resist)-5 (NoV, sans Resist)-20 (Chain Water Blast, sans Resist)-5 (NoV, sans Resist)-53 (Chain Water Blast, sans Resist)-45 (Chain Water Blast, sans Resist)-15 (Water Blast, sans Resist)-20 (Ride the Tsumnami, sans Resist)-19 (Water Blast, sans Resist)-43 (Spear)-25 (Spear)-69 (TKP, sans Resist)

Ley3 315-30 (Pheonix Beak)-26 (Linnorm Breath, sans Resist)-20 (Water Blast, sans Resist)-26 (Pheonix Beak)-28 (Earth Blast, sans Resist)-26 (Earth Blast, sans Resist)-21 (Water Blast, sans Resist)-72 (Pheonix Beak)-35 (Pheonix Beak)-27 (Pheonix Beak)-34 (Earth Blast, sans Resist)

**Init**

Beef 54

Barley 42

Carrot 41

Ley3 39 X

Cairn 37 X

Ley1 33 X

Ley2 33

Soup 32

### Notes
Wall of Ice Impulse used to great effect to split the linnorm off from everyone else for an action and avoiding AoO. Magic resist on leydroths was pretty annoying, but kineticists not casting spells gave them an edge over the casters. Earth kineticist continues to be frustrated about Elemental Blasts not technically being unarmed attacks.

Knocked 1, no kills.

Retro: Level 20 feels cool, as expected. Assume Earth's Mantle feels really meh. Go harder on Auras; fewer cones, etc.

## Encounter 2
x1 Balor

x3 Marilith

The demons surround a floating green-black rift in the air, chanting profane speech as the rift begins to grow and caustic poison drips to the ground below.

### Combat

Balor 480-42 (Summon Kaiju, Yarthoon, Cold Weakness)-21 (Ride The Tsunami)-30 (Summon Kaiju, Yarthoon Pt 2, Cold Weakness)-66 (Dragon Form: Cold Breath, plus Weak)-30 (Summon Kaiju, Yarthoon Pt 2, Cold Weakness)-98 (Fist+Cold Iron Racial Weakness+Cold Rune Weakness)-67 (Fist+Cold Iron Racial Weakness+Cold Rune Weakness)-82 (Dragon Form: Cold Bite, with Weakness)

Mar1 400-90 (Summon Kaiju, Yarthoon)-84 (Ride The Tsunami)-70 (Maelstrom Water Blast)-40 (Chain Water Blast)-28 (Dragon Form: Claw)-24 (Dragon Form: Cold Breath)-82 (Fist+Cold Iron Racial Weakness)

Mar2 400-22 (Summon Kaiju, Yarthoon)-42 (Ride The Tsunami)-42 (Maelstrom Water Blast)-24 (Dragon Form: Cold Breath)-42 (TKP)-70 (Fist+Cold Iron Racial Weakness)-53 (Fist+Cold Iron Racial Weakness)-29 (Dragon Form: Jaw)-48 (TKP)-58 (Water Blast)

Mar3 400-45 (Summon Kaiju, Yarthoon)-42 (Ride The Tsunami)

**Init**

Beef 45

Balor 43

Barley 38

Soup 38

Mar2 38

Mar1 37

Carrot 36

Mar3 31

### Notes
Maze is disgustingly good. Anyway. Not kineticist-related.

The dice were absolutely with the group this fight. Great rolls on their side and poor rolls on my side. Mar3 got Maze'd early on and proceded to spend the entire fight failing to get out. Handwaved the group killing Mar3 because I felt bad for her.

Knocked 1, killed 0.

Retro: All kineticist things provoking AoO remains incredibly unfun. It was really cool that the Oread feature was able to chew through the demons but was a bit feels-bad since it meant the kineticist just didn't touch their blast at all in the fight. Some use of Earth utility impulses.

## Encounter 3
x1 Treerazer (Weak)

Treerazer flies down from atop a tower to land in front of the heros as they step out the portal.

### Combat

This was a meme fight. The numbers don't matter.

### Notes
Universal Kineticist asked again about whether an active "Wings of Air" effect would persist when changing from Air to a different Element. We had previously ruled that it would not persist. Given that permanent flight against a baby demon lord isn't that big of a deal, I'm allowing it this fight.

Predictably, a TPK.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Saedar wrote:
Elemental Blast crit specializations were fun.

Did you catch it's only one per character even if they're universalist? You must choose one.

Also
Saedar wrote:
If you activate a lasting effect using an Elemental Impulse, does that effect remain if you Gather a different element? (Example: 'Wings of Air' and then switch to Fire.)

Definitely yes. Because 'nothing says no' is enough. So fly and have auras as much as you like, only you can't support flight with impulses unless you have air.


Errenor wrote:
Saedar wrote:
Elemental Blast crit specializations were fun.

Did you catch it's only one per character even if they're universalist? You must choose one.

I did not, but I don't think it came up except for Earth and Fire (for the Universalist). Player may have caught it even if I didn't. The Earth Kineticist had fun with knocking people down.

Errenor wrote:

Also

Saedar wrote:
If you activate a lasting effect using an Elemental Impulse, does that effect remain if you Gather a different element? (Example: 'Wings of Air' and then switch to Fire.)
Definitely yes. Because 'nothing says no' is enough. So fly and have auras as much as you like, only you can't support flight with impulses unless you have air.

And that was the player's reasoning. In a normal game I'd have absolutely just allowed it. The thing that gave me pause for the playtest was that all the language around Impulses and such is very "you must have the Element Gathered". Just think it is worth tightening up some of the language around the topic.


Saedar wrote:
Errenor wrote:

Also

Saedar wrote:
If you activate a lasting effect using an Elemental Impulse, does that effect remain if you Gather a different element? (Example: 'Wings of Air' and then switch to Fire.)
Definitely yes. Because 'nothing says no' is enough. So fly and have auras as much as you like, only you can't support flight with impulses unless you have air.
And that was the player's reasoning. In a normal game I'd have absolutely just allowed it. The thing that gave me pause for the playtest was that all the language around Impulses and such is very "you must have the Element Gathered". Just think it is worth tightening up some of the language around the topic.

I don't know. I can't invent any reasoning for this reading even if I try. Does the ability say anything about needing to have element all the time? No, it says you have flight for 10 minutes. Ok, does 'impulse' trait have anything? No, it demands the right element only at the moment of using the action. Ok, maybe Gather Element says something? No, it doesn't. Concerning auras you yourself wrote 'the aura trait does not include "switching element" as one of its removal criteria'. And it does not. So why? I don't see any reason to do it. Accordingly I don't see any problem with the language in this case, they've never said the element should be gathered all the time, so why should they say it's not needed?

You could just see it as a type of spells: spellcasters don't need anything for spells to work after they were cast (apart from sustained), and so kineticist's abilities don't. And the designers have even likened them to spells in some ways already.


Saedar wrote:
Errenor wrote:
Saedar wrote:
Elemental Blast crit specializations were fun.

Did you catch it's only one per character even if they're universalist? You must choose one.

I did not, but I don't think it came up except for Earth and Fire (for the Universalist). Player may have caught it even if I didn't. The Earth Kineticist had fun with knocking people down.

Follow-up on this. Talked with the player and they didn't notice either. Benefited from Water and Fire crit effects. I suppose this means that I can at least say that I didn't find open access to be unbalancing in the slightest, so much as Dedicated still feeling like it needs something really special.


Saedar wrote:
Saedar wrote:
Errenor wrote:
Saedar wrote:
Elemental Blast crit specializations were fun.

Did you catch it's only one per character even if they're universalist? You must choose one.

I did not, but I don't think it came up except for Earth and Fire (for the Universalist). Player may have caught it even if I didn't. The Earth Kineticist had fun with knocking people down.

Follow-up on this. Talked with the player and they didn't notice either. Benefited from Water and Fire crit effects. I suppose this means that I can at least say that I didn't find open access to be unbalancing in the slightest, so much as Dedicated still feeling like it needs something really special.

Well, to be honest, I didn't notice it at once either. I've even read the part several times while people discussed the class and still didn't. I've only noticed when I began making my own character for playtesting.

The problem with them that I see it's that only 2 of them are good: fire and stone. Water is very problematic in PFS: you can't not use your main weapon and you can't predict crits and you can't turn splash off for allies.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I am the player btw. So if you have questions I will answer.

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