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Well, for one, I was completely unaware of the existence of Pathfinder Infinite and, secondly, I have really never been interested in 3rd party content. I disagree with enough people on just basic PF1 material that I don't have the patience or tolerance for the toxicity that goes along with all of that. Most of that went away when the 'popular' crowd moved to PF2.
As for PF2... I actually am in two games. Extinction Curse (as a player) and Strength of Thousands (as the GM). It has its merits though I vastly prefer PF1 over it. I have blatantly stolen mechanics from it to integrate into PF1.
Anyway, publishers and others go where the money is. Perhaps if someone was able to crowdfund a new book or two, you'd get some interest.
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More posts like this (perhaps with a little less hyperbole) are the way to get that content!
I believe what we're seeing is that the semi-pros (people with a bit of freelance experience but not in the RPG industry full-time) are indeed releasing 2e products rather than 1e. Because even though there is an audience for 1e there is a bigger audience for 2e. Money, man, money. Which leaves a limited pool of amateurs who are fluent enough with 1e.
For conversions in particular a lot of people are still skittish about running afoul of the license terms. And, of course, they need to be fluent in both systems to convert properly.
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Chicken, egg, and visibility.
Every once in a while I hear about this, go take a quick look, and don't find anything like a PF1-top-sellers type thing. Why produce material that won't be seen? Now, maybe I'm approaching this wrong, but as a consumer I don't find the delivery appealing, and I figure that extends to producers.
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For me, honestly, as we just switched from almost 20 years of 3.0/3.5 to Pathfinder ~5 years ago, and as it take us (playing pretty much once per week) about 2-3 calendar years to get through an entire AP, and the fact that I have 11 un-played APs on my shelves (plus another 3 or 4 in Fantasy Grounds), plus all the Dungeon magazines I own, I'm looking at a minimum of 40 years of material I already own...enough to last me into my mid-90s. And that is just for games I DM...I also swap out with another player the DM duties so I can play every few years. At this point, I've pretty much bought all the Pathfinder v1 material I'm going to buy. I just don't need any more.
Maybe if I'd been playing v1 since it came out, and had already burned through all the v1 stuff I'd be looking for more material to stay with v1. But that just isn't my situation. Maybe I'm in the minority, but maybe not.
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For me, honestly, as we just switched from almost 20 years of 3.0/3.5 to Pathfinder ~5 years ago, and as it take us (playing pretty much once per week) about 2-3 calendar years to get through an entire AP, and the fact that I have 11 un-played APs on my shelves (plus another 3 or 4 in Fantasy Grounds), plus all the Dungeon magazines I own, I'm looking at a minimum of 40 years of material I already own...enough to last me into my mid-90s. And that is just for games I DM...I also swap out with another player the DM duties so I can play every few years. At this point, I've pretty much bought all the Pathfinder v1 material I'm going to buy. I just don't need any more.
Maybe if I'd been playing v1 since it came out, and had already burned through all the v1 stuff I'd be looking for more material to stay with v1. But that just isn't my situation. Maybe I'm in the minority, but maybe not.
We've been playing APs since PF came out, we play every week, but they take about a year to year and a half or so each. we're on #10 now, and have 14?? more to go. not to mention all the various modules available, plus anything else we want to play. if people are playing fast enough to have played it all, I'm at a loss as to how they did it. So we're in the same boat. Plenty of PF1 to last us for years to come. And have no need to buy anything else for PF1, pretty much ever. We already had the cost of switching from 1ED&D to 2E, 3.0 and 3.5, plus the switch to PF1...(and the dabble into 4.0 and 5e) and quite frankly we're tired of the extra cost, so we're very happy for now and have no intention of spending that kind of money again.
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We already had the cost of switching from 1ED&D to 2E, 3.0 and 3.5, plus the switch to PF1...(and the dabble into 4.0 and 5e) and quite frankly we're tired of the extra cost, so we're very happy for now and have no intention of spending that kind of money again.
Exactly! But add Basic/Expert in front of 1e. :-)
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There are plenty of things I wanted to see in 1e and even the 3rd party stuff didn't cover it or at least in a way I was happy with anyway.
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We already had the cost of switching from 1ED&D to 2E, 3.0 and 3.5, plus the switch to PF1...(and the dabble into 4.0 and 5e) and quite frankly we're tired of the extra cost, so we're very happy for now and have no intention of spending that kind of money again.Exactly! But add Basic/Expert in front of 1e. :-)
yeah, there was that cost as well.... Damn I'm old, and I've spent a lot of money on this game.. sheesh
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I could be way off, but I would imagine that the more prolific people creating content for PF Infinite are people that would love to work in the RPG industry professionally. So, if you were going to create content that you could add to your professional portfolio, and you wanted someone at Paizo to consider you for work... I would think that Paizo would be more interested in seeing what you've created for their active product instead of for a product they stopped supporting years ago.
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I've considered Pathfinder Infinite and while I am not saying no for good, I am definitely saying no for now. Especially with 1e material. My current 1e books are not selling well. Take the Book of Magic: Spell Codex Volume 1 for example. It is the spells from 22 player companion and campaign setting books gathered together into one tome. It was released back in May, is currently 20% off the regular price at DriveThruRPG, and it has yet to metal (sell 51+ copies). This is the kind of book you expect to sell lots of copies, the kind of book that would fund the creation of riskier books. And it's not performing.
If I did the exact same book in Pathfinder Infinite, where I would lack the ability to sell it through game stores which I'll be doing later this year, would it sell better? Would said increased sales be enough to compensate for receiving 50% of the selling price instead of the 65% selling through DriveThruRPG normally? These are the kinds of decisions involved in publishing. Unfortunately, I do not believe that it would sell well enough to make the tradeoffs worth it.
At current, there are 4 non-translation Pathfinder Infinite titles that have hit gold metal (selling 501+ copies). All of them are 2e rules sets. I would not call that a groundswell of support for the 2e Pathfinder Infinite market. Infact, I have only found a single 1e product that has hit electrum (251+ copies sold): the scarlet rose avenger. While that is still pretty good, it is effectively a "cap" on what I can expect sales to be like, and a low one at that.
EDIT: I just looked again, there is only 1 1e title that sold as Silver (101+ copies). That is ... not good.
At this point, I am questioning the Pathfinder 1e market entirely. Like others said above, current 1e titles are competing against 10 years of Paizo products and all the Pathfinder Compatible products released in that time. I am not seeing evidence to support the case for enough PF 1e fans supporting publishers that will continue in the system to make it commercially viable. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love working in the system and that gives it serious leeway, but I am just not sure it is enough.
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yeah, there was that cost as well.... Damn I'm old, and I've spent a lot of money on this game.. sheeshWe already had the cost of switching from 1ED&D to 2E, 3.0 and 3.5, plus the switch to PF1...(and the dabble into 4.0 and 5e) and quite frankly we're tired of the extra cost, so we're very happy for now and have no intention of spending that kind of money again.Exactly! But add Basic/Expert in front of 1e. :-)
44 years of board games and RPGs. All numbers of Dragon from 72 and several older numbers. All numbers of Dungeon, Shadowrun, Traveler, etc. LOL.
But I regret nothing!
Now I have stopped buying PF 2 stuff, even if I am interested in Golarion background (but not much in PS 2 rules) because of shelf space problems.
I will still occasionally buy PDFs about Golarion regions and races, but no more physical books.
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At this point, I am questioning the Pathfinder 1e market entirely. Like others said above, current 1e titles are competing against 10 years of Paizo products and all the Pathfinder Compatible products released in that time. I am not seeing evidence to support the case for enough PF 1e fans supporting publishers that will continue in the system to make it commercially viable. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love working in the system and that gives it serious leeway, but I am just not sure it is enough.
Besides not knowing the existence of Pathfinder infinite before reading this thread, buying a product reading one or two rows of descriptive text, isn't exactly what will motivate me much.
Probably I would follow an author that I know and find interesting, but buying something new from someone whose work I barely know or don't know at all will be very improbable.
I have brought, liked, and used "Book of the river nations", so I have brought another couple of things in PDF from JBE, but I don't feel the need to add 170 new spells. I am already spending my time pruning out some of Paizo spells, as they don't fit my idea of the campaign I want to GM.
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Take the Book of Magic: Spell Codex Volume 1
Taken. Sorry, I know you announced this a bit back but I got distracted.
Really, this is IMHO about visibility still. Out of sight, out of mind. When PF1 was mainstream, Paizo made a big deal about it and there were lots of conversations going on, so third-party publishers stuff was discussed too. Now... it's a fringe product line. Sigh.
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Welcome to life of Cypher System fan ;D
Anyway, there is so much official Pathfinder 1e content that I never really felt motivated to look at 3rd party stuff, especially since art budget isn't really comparable ^_^; Art is actually really nice aspect when it comes to inspiring me and I'm not too impressed with 3rd party adventures either. (legendary planet so far has been uh... Rocky campaign with highs and lows)
Basically... There isn't really much of motivation to use 1e 3rd party material outside of fixes for really specific stuff(like mythic stuff) and 1e high level always breaking down eventually math wise doesn't help much either since adding more options just makes things even more complex for me to as gm design encounters around.
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Taken. Sorry, I know you announced this a bit back but I got distracted.
Really, this is IMHO about visibility still. Out of sight, out of mind. When PF1 was mainstream, Paizo made a big deal about it and there were lots of conversations going on, so third-party publishers stuff was discussed too. Now... it's a fringe product line. Sigh.
Thank you. It is always appreciated.
The visibility problem is definitely a thing. My best recommendation is to follow us on social media if you are on any. Also, let us send you emails through DriveThruRPG or sign up for our newsletter.
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I have brought, liked, and used "Book of the river nations", so I have brought another couple of things in PDF from JBE, but I don't feel the need to add 170 new spells. I am already spending my time pruning out some of Paizo spells, as they don't fit my idea of the campaign I want to GM.
Keep watching us. The next one we're coming out with is the Book of Beasts: Arcanist Codex. More NPCs is always helpful to a GM. Plus two freelancers turned in adventures that we're in the process of editing/arranging artwork for. Might I recommend signing up for our newsletter/allowing us to send you email through DriveThruRPG's system.
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Oh right regardless of system, you can't ever have too many NPC and monster books :D That is my most common 3rd party products I buy
True, but I miss 1st edition AD&D monsters books. Today, a monster description is a page of mechanics, but very little about their lifestyle, organization, and lore. A lot of bones, but lacking meat. A very dry reading. The old monster manuals were way more suggestive.
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I have brought, liked, and used "Book of the river nations", so I have brought another couple of things in PDF from JBE, but I don't feel the need to add 170 new spells. I am already spending my time pruning out some of Paizo spells, as they don't fit my idea of the campaign I want to GM.Keep watching us. The next one we're coming out with is the Book of Beasts: Arcanist Codex. More NPCs is always helpful to a GM. Plus two freelancers turned in adventures that we're in the process of editing/arranging artwork for. Might I recommend signing up for our newsletter/allowing us to send you email through DriveThruRPG's system.
Out of curiosity, do you have produced some books on spells for everyday living?
To cite an old comment that was made about village clerics at the time of AD&D 1st edition, "A CLW can cure a farmer accidentally belting another with a scyte and is excessive for everyday wounds, but the common problem of medieval farmers were diseases, and those require a third level spell."
Stuff like a "disinfect" cantrip and some simple way for commoners to access some cantrip would be interesting. As a minimum, to see how other people think the general populace will interact with magic.
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Out of curiosity, do you have produced some books on spells for everyday living?
I think about this every time I go on a hike. What I'd give for cantrips that 1) Keep the insects away; 2) Filter UV light so I don't burn; 3) Maintain a comfy 68 degrees and low humidity for my person; 4) shield me from the rain.
And around the house, something that would pull all the weeds out of my flowerbeds, water everything automatically, repel bad insects animals that eat my plants, etc.
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Out of curiosity, do you have produced some books on spells for everyday living?
I think about this every time I go on a hike. What I'd give for cantrips that 1) Keep the insects away; 2) Filter UV light so I don't burn; 3) Maintain a comfy 68 degrees and low humidity for my person; 4) shield me from the rain.
And around the house, something that would pull all the weeds out of my flowerbeds, water everything automatically, repel bad insects animals that eat my plants, etc.
No, but that is a good idea.
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True, but I miss 1st edition AD&D monsters books. Today, a monster description is a page of mechanics, but very little about their lifestyle, organization, and lore. A lot of bones, but lacking meat. A very dry reading. The old monster manuals were way more suggestive.
We did this with a 5e monster book and its PF 2e conversion, having 2-3 stat blocks on 1-2 pages (young, regular, elder, etc) and descriptive text on an entire additional page, making each monster a 2-3 page entry. We haven't done that for PF 1e because we haven't created any stand-alone monster books (NPCs excluded) since we started doing that. But I think I have created enough monsters on our website at this point to probably create a whole other PDF monster book, maybe even a small print book.
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I have both Spell Codices on my birthday and Christmas wish lists. I really hope you can get the number of volumes out there that you hope to in order to complete the series. I for one really want those books.
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I have both Spell Codices on my birthday and Christmas wish lists. I really hope you can get the number of volumes out there that you hope to in order to complete the series. I for one really want those books.
Thank you. 3 is definitely happening. The spells for it have been assembled. My editors are hard at work on the Arcanist Codex which is why I haven't turned 3 over to them yet. 4 already has a decent amount of work that has gone into it so it will more than likely happen. The bigger question at this point will be if there will be enough material for 5. Once I figure that out, then I need to gauge if there is enough interest for it at that point.