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These days in the lore and setting, Nocticula is called the “Redeemer Queen” and has ascended to godhood.
But Sarenrae still has the portfolio of redemption.
I’m getting in way too many arguments from my players about this. That if they want redemption themes they still go to Sarenrae. Someone give me backup or tell me I’m wrong, but I’m tired of arguing that Nocticula isn’t the redemption goddess purely because some cultist (or writer ;) ) wanted to call her redeemer queen.
In my head, I’m explaining it with some of the freedom and self-determination of chaos. Nocticula wanted to be a deity and worked that out for herself. You can do you. And if you want to stop being evil, work that out for yourself. If you get kicked out for doing you, then she’s got a place for you as the goddess of exiles. But she’s not going to actually tell you to do better or handhold you through a redemption.
How do you all explain this? Am I the only one having to argue so hard for canon?
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I think you're right. Her refusal to accept CE clerics shows that she's definitely turned her back on evil, but that's all. She seems to be more about the freedom to change your current circumstances. I wouldn't be at all surprised if she is in a redemption themed pantheon with Sarenrae at some point, but the two goddesses approach the concept very differently. Then again, she's held surprises up her sleeve before. "Redeemer Queen" could well be an aspiration instead of a statement about what she is.
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If you look at Nocticula’s Edicts and Anathema, you see her perspective come on this through on this some: punish those who take advantage of offered trust and shelter, but never deny shelter to the desperate. That’s her olive branch to redemption - if someone comes to you sincerely, welcome them, but don’t put up with any nonsense. The rest of her Edicts and Anathema, her Areas of Concern and Domains? That’s all about self-expression and midnight, because that’s what she cares about.
Nocticula is not a patron of those who need third and fourth and fifth chances. She’s not going to reach down into the muck to save a sinner - but she might give them a sign to tackle the hard work of saving themselves, or have a hand in a work of art that inspires people to consider a better path. The actual work of redemption? Do it yourself, like she did… and make some art about it afterwards.
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For contrast, Sarenrae’s Edicts and Anathema lean much harder on redemption, backing you up quite clearly:
Edicts: destroy the Spawn of Rovagug, protect allies, provide aid to the sick and wounded, seek and allow redemption
Anathema: create undead, lie, deny a repentant creature an opportunity for redemption, fail to strike down evil
Areas of Concern: healing, honesty, redemption, and the sun
Emphasis my own. Sarenrae is a goddess of redemption, Nocticula is a goddess who redeemed herself.
Creative Director
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The nicknames we give our deities aren't meant to indicate their jobs or make implications about their areas of concern. For example, Desna is also known as the Song of the Spheres, but she's not a goddess of song—that's more Shelyn's thing. And Asmodeus is also known as the Prince of Darkness, but it's the other lawful evil core 20 deity, Zon-Kuthon, who's the god of darkness.
As folks have mentioned in the thread above, Nocticula's nickname speaks to her own redemption, not an agenda. She not only redeemed herself, but redeemed an entire faith, and perhaps set in motion the possibility of redemption for a lot more if they follow her example. She and her faithful don't particularly look to encourage redemptions themselves though; they're more interested in other things.
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I actually really dig Owlcat's WOTR game for specifically this, as the origin for her name is given to her by a very innocent character, and Noct loathes it at first but seems to sort of tongue-in-cheek take it later, almost ironically. It's a fun version of it, at least.
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Personally I kinda feel the new incarnation of Nocticula could use some work. What material there is written about her currently does not give a clear picture about the deity, nor her purpose within Golarion's setting.
Is she a goddess of misfits and exiles? Is she a goddess of fiends or oppressed tieflings that want to reform themselves? Maybe? That's at least what I would expect based on her assorted labels and her title as the "Redeemer Queen", a demon lord who became a goddess that turned away from evil, though not necessarily towards complete benevolence. Those aspects to me seem more useful, applicable and interesting within the world of Golarion. But the Gods & Magic article concerning her seems to emphasise more than anything else that she is a goddess of underappreciated artists. And that is a real peculiar niche of a niche. It's like having a god of underpaid mailmen. Is Shelyn so coldly indifferent to unsuccessful artists that it necessitates the existence of Nocticula? And the article in Gods & Magic doesn't even explain what why midnight is of significance to her.
Nocticula was a master of assassins and succubi, lording over the Midnight Isles and a mountain of demon lord corpses... until she got sick of the pointless bloodshed, and bailed. Art brought her joy instead, and is what she cares to spend her time on today, while she maintains the tie to the night from her former domain in the Midnight Isles. She's a killer who left that life behind for her aesthetic passions, wanting to foster under-appreciated creativity after so much destruction.
As mentioned above, she's a deity for tieflings and reformed fiends only by example, more than by the focus of her faith or church. If you want to change your life, do it yourself, and make some art about it - that's the Nocticula way.
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It would honestly feel wrong for someone who clawed her way out of the Abyss to be "nice" right away. Nocticula is like Arazni for me, as someone who is in the middle of their story rather than at the end. It's possible Nocticula, with time, will become more sympathetic for people who want to follow in her footsteps, but she's only been a non-Demon for like 4 years now.
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It would honestly feel wrong for someone who clawed her way out of the Abyss to be "nice" right away. Nocticula is like Arazni for me, as someone who is in the middle of their story rather than at the end. It's possible Nocticula, with time, will become more sympathetic for people who want to follow in her footsteps, but she's only been a non-Demon for like 4 years now.
Nocticula's nicer than Arazni, even - Chaotic Neutral compared to Neutral Evil, and with a demand that her followers give shelter to the desperate. She's just not putting up with any nonsense, and she's definitely not doing any of it for you.
You're right on the money that both are in flux still, and that dynamism is part of why I'm such a big fan of both... even if they do expose the Paizo fondness for redeemed ladies somewhat :p
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You're right on the money that both are in flux still, and that dynamism is part of why I'm such a big fan of both... even if they do expose the Paizo fondness for redeemed ladies somewhat :pDo we have any other male or male presenting examples aside from Ragathiel?
Basrakal, home to all sorts of misfit outsiders, has a male Abaddon Gigas (traditionally NE) who is N and handles the defense of the settlement with his lover (herself a non-Evil Hell Gigas), as well as a male Zohanil Sahkil who has traded out terror for tattooing.
I don't know of any other deity-level examples outside of Ragathiel, but my Golarion deity lore is broadly a little weaker than I would like.