Urban stealth rules?


Rules Questions


(My search-fu is apparently weak.)

Can anyone remind me of where to find the rules for successfully trailing/shadowing people in urban environments without being noticed, please?

(It's probably somewhere obvious, but I seem unable to find it at the moment.)


Ok, I've just been all over AoN and I can't find anything specific to what you're asking for. I searched Crowds, Urban, checked all rules grouped under Ultimate Intrigue, but I'm coming up empty. Under the Intrigue rules for a Nemesis, it describes how the PCs can BE tailed by an agent of the nemesis; the agent uses its own Stealth and Perception skills modified by distance, crowds, etc.

There's rules on Chases or 3PP optional rules for skill challenges. Maybe those are what you're looking for?


I was so sure that I'd seen rules for it somewhere, but it seems like you've basically looked in the same places as I did - with the same results (or rather lack thereof).

But thank you anyway - at least it confirms that the system apparently doesn't have any special rules for urban stealth/shadowing/tailing people in crowds and down city streets. :)

Scarab Sages

There's some stuff here which I think might be 2nd ed but I don't have the book I think its in to check.

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/environment/urban-adventures/

Liberty's Edge

Senko wrote:

There's some stuff here which I think might be 2nd ed but I don't have the book I think its in to check.

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/environment/urban-adventures/

The book seems to be the Gamemastering guide for 1st edition.

Scarab Sages

Ah another book I don't make a habit of looking in as the GM's I've had get . . . snarky if they find out a players been reading the GM's guide.

Liberty's Edge

Senko wrote:
Ah another book I don't make a habit of looking in as the GM's I've had get . . . snarky if they find out a players been reading the GM's guide.

Nothing "secret" in it, mostly suggestions on how to be a GM.


Gamemastering wrote:

City Streets

Typical city streets are narrow and twisting. Most streets average 15 to 20 feet wide, while alleys range from 10 feet wide to only 5 feet. Cobblestones in good condition allow normal movement, but roads in poor repair and heavily rutted dirt streets are considered light rubble, increasing the DC of Acrobatics checks by 2.

Some cities have no larger thoroughfares, particularly cities that gradually grew from small settlements to larger cities. Cities that are planned, or perhaps have suffered a major fire that allowed authorities to construct new roads through formerly inhabited areas, might have a few larger streets through town. These main roads are 25 feet wide—offering room for wagons to pass each other—with 5-foot-wide sidewalks on either side.

Crowds: Urban streets are often full of people going about their daily lives. In most cases, it isn’t necessary to put every 1st-level commoner on the map when a fight breaks out on the city’s main thoroughfare. Instead, just indicate which squares on the map contain crowds. If crowds see something obviously dangerous, they’ll move away at 30 feet per round at initiative count 0. It takes 2 squares of movement to enter a square with crowds. The crowds provide cover for anyone who does so, enabling a Stealth check and providing a bonus to Armor Class and on Reflex saves.

Directing Crowds: It takes a DC 15 Diplomacy check or DC 20 Intimidate check to convince a crowd to move in a particular direction, and the crowd must be able to hear or see the character making the attempt. It takes a full-round action to make the Diplomacy check, but only a free action to make the Intimidate check.

If two or more characters are trying to direct a crowd in different directions, they make opposed Diplomacy or Intimidate checks to determine to whom the crowd listens. The crowd ignores everyone if none of the characters’ check results beat the DCs given above.

I haven't actually run a scenario like this before, but now I kinda want to :) I think all you do for tailing someone through a crowd is to treat the squares with the crowd similar to difficult terrain; it'll cost 10ft movement for every 5ft square. You should be able to make Stealth checks every round because the crowd provides Cover. The person being tailed would make Perception checks vs. these Stealth checks, and the Perc DC would increase by 1/10DC for every 1ft they are away from the person Stealthing, so +1 DC for every 10ft away from the Stealther. I would probably also increase the DC by +5 for the person making the Perc check being considered 'distracted', because they're trying to navigate their own way through the crowd as well and they're typically facing away from the Stealther.

Perception


Senko wrote:
Ah another book I don't make a habit of looking in as the GM's I've had get . . . snarky if they find out a players been reading the GM's guide.

I really wouldn't like playing under GM's like this. I don't care what books players look through as long as they put them back in their right places on the shelf.

Scarab Sages

DungeonmasterCal wrote:
Senko wrote:
Ah another book I don't make a habit of looking in as the GM's I've had get . . . snarky if they find out a players been reading the GM's guide.
I really wouldn't like playing under GM's like this. I don't care what books players look through as long as they put them back in their right places on the shelf.

I had other issues with them over the years like the magical talking fish in my characters backstory that they created and didn't tell me about so they were surprised when my character on returning to the dojo to find their mentor had been killed went to check on the body rather than to the pond to talk to the fish I didn't know about because they mentioned the pond 3 times.


Senko wrote:
DungeonmasterCal wrote:
Senko wrote:
Ah another book I don't make a habit of looking in as the GM's I've had get . . . snarky if they find out a players been reading the GM's guide.
I really wouldn't like playing under GM's like this. I don't care what books players look through as long as they put them back in their right places on the shelf.
I had other issues with them over the years like the magical talking fish in my characters backstory that they created and didn't tell me about so they were surprised when my character on returning to the dojo to find their mentor had been killed went to check on the body rather than to the pond to talk to the fish I didn't know about because they mentioned the pond 3 times.

You let GM's create your character's backstory? That seems... backwards. GM's can definitely veto a backstory if it doesn't make sense, but they certainly shouldn't be creating it? (For instance I once had a player whose backstory was being a seasoned member of a Giant-hunting group... Bud, you're level 1, you're a seasoned nothing. Maybe you sat on the bleachers while the rest of the clan killed the Giants, and didn't somehow die to collateral damage).


Negative PP, I wonder if it's more accurate to say that Sanka threw together a backstory and their GM added something to it w/out telling the player. See, I add to or embellish PCs' backstories as a GM all the time for my games; I just do it WITH the player involved is all.


I feel like "magical talking fish" is a pretty major addition :P

Scarab Sages

Mark Hoover 330 wrote:
Negative PP, I wonder if it's more accurate to say that Sanka threw together a backstory and their GM added something to it w/out telling the player. See, I add to or embellish PCs' backstories as a GM all the time for my games; I just do it WITH the player involved is all.

This one I made a kensei, dojo, master and then they added this magic talking fish without telling me about it so I had no idea talking to it was even an option. We did have other issues like a 20' statue we didn't see because the room was only lit by lightning strikes outside the windows till it attacked. Whole party felt a 20' statue is something you don't need to "spot" it should be part of the rooms description.

Also yes I too felt that fish was a major addition I should have been told about not just had the pool mentioned a few times when I return to find my masters did body. Either I know about it having lived there my entire life or the thing only spoke to my master in which case my character would have had no idea it was an option anyway.

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