Mythic question


Advice


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Mythic seems to pretty quickly make OP characters more OP than they were before, especially in Pathfinder. I'm thinking of including mythic levels in a campaign, but to keep them from going too out of control, those mythic powers would only be available at specific times and/or in specific locations.

I think that this would help contain the mythic powers to use only during boss fights with mythic bosses, so there wouldn't be any worry about players just steamrolling everything else. Any thoughts on this? Or should mythic just be ignored entirely?


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Mythic rules turn the game of Pathfinder from rocket tag to nuclear rocket tag.

If you have a problem with how the game behaves already, and you have players who like to optimize, adding mythic will only make things worse. And you'll just end up compensating by trying to make even more powerful custom enemies with mythic ranks to deal with your mythic PCs.

My general advice is don't bother with it.

Limiting it to certain times or places will just make it harder for players to keep track of what they can do when, and will ultimately just mean you tune certain enemies to deal with OP mythic characters instead of OP non-mythic characters.

Honestly, the best way to handle OP characters (in my opinion) is to find things that the party isn't good at and make them do those.

Party is quick and deadly at killing things? Great, go climb that tree and save that kitten instead. Oh you want a fight? Sure thing, here is the enemy you find. You clearly out class them and they try to run away after you one shot the first member of their group. Do you follow them to murder them, turn them into the police, or something else?


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Mythic gets off the rails due to 2 reasons:
--Mythic 3+ gets bonkers pretty hard
--People dont track swift/immidiate actions properly, you only have one of these per turn.

Hardban these things:
--Mythic vital strike
--Foe biter

Have each PC design an Mythic optimized NPC, without telling them if they will be enemies or friends, outsource some of your workload.

The general issue is that mythic increases the "skill build cap", there are outright frightening abilities in mythic, and a buffed level 17/mythic 3ish character in a party can one turn a demon lord as written by raw force.

The martial paths are also badly balanced. Trickster > Champion >>Defender and Marshal, because trickster has the one defensive mythic abilitiy that is actually good, mirror dodge.


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You could also put a lock on all the pseudo charges that mythic characters get, but after a certain point you have to ask yourself "What do I want the game to be Mythic for?"

If you want mythic enemies, well you don't need mythic PCs.

If you want the PCs to experience brief periods of vast power, its probably better to create a unique buff that exists only at that location and use already existing effects.

"You have Energy Resistance 30 (All Elements), DR 15/Epic, Fast Healing 10, Haste, You ignore enemy SR and Elemental Immunities, and you won initiative." That's pretty much the mythic experience right there unless you want to get into "I'm going to borrow the Ranger's Favored Enemy bonus, move 120 feet as my first move action, full attack with my TWF routine, does a 72 against touch AC confirm? I deal Sneak Attack x2 for...eleventy hundred damage. For my second attack..."

Sure, some mythic abilities are 'cool' instead of powerful, but Seven League Leap and 'No longer needs to breathe' aren't getting picked over 'I'd like to be utterly undetectable to every effect known in the universe.' and 'Increase my weapon's crit multiplier.'


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What it really comes down to is what type of campaign do you want to run? The Mythic rules create very powerful characters so if that is what you want it can be a lot of fun. A mythic campaign is basically on the power level of Greek mythology. So, if you want to play Hercules instead of Aragorn run a mythic campaign.

If you are going to run a mythic campaign, don’t bother limiting it to specific times or places. That kind of defeats the idea of running a mythic campaign. Just realize that most non-mythic foes will not be that difficult for your players. The only thing I might do would be to reduce the rate that they gain mythic tiers. In the mythic game I ran I had the players gain 1 tier per 3 levels instead of 2. This will mean they never gain the full power and don’t gain tier 6 abilities until 18th level if the game even reaches that far.

Another thing you do would be to use some mythic rules for the player’s opponents. The players would be normal characters, but the Boss may have a few mythic tiers. If you go this route, you only need a few mythic tiers. Putting the players up against a full mythic character is going to lead to a TPK. But A high level Boss with 2-3 tiers would not be that bad.


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Something else you can do: Allow unused mythic power to be changed into something, plotwise.

My wotr skald called beerfiend has a deal with a powerful succubus, he makes mythic tears to wine for her (his left over mythic reserves at the end of the day) she gets the booze, uses it for her interdimensional smuggling route, buys mortal prisoners of war from the worldwound war from the slave markets and delivers them back to Drezen.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

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Mightypion wrote:
Mythic gets off the rails due to 2 reasons:

And a third reason: it substantially slows down gameplay, in the hands of most players I've seen use it.

If PCs have special powers that they can use only during special boss fights, that's likely going to slow down that boss fight, and I'm not really seeing any benefit to doing this. In fact, the players may find it anticlimactic because they only defeated the boss because of a "deus ex machina" power boost.

I'd suggest to skip it.

Scarab Sages

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Mightypion wrote:

Mythic gets off the rails due to 2 reasons:

--Mythic 3+ gets bonkers pretty hard
--People dont track swift/immidiate actions properly, you only have one of these per turn.

Hardban these things:
--Mythic vital strike
--Foe biter

Have each PC design an Mythic optimized NPC, without telling them if they will be enemies or friends, outsource some of your workload.

The general issue is that mythic increases the "skill build cap", there are outright frightening abilities in mythic, and a buffed level 17/mythic 3ish character in a party can one turn a demon lord as written by raw force.

The martial paths are also badly balanced. Trickster > Champion >>Defender and Marshal, because trickster has the one defensive mythic abilitiy that is actually good, mirror dodge.

I don't even optimize my mythic characters (immortality, mythic sustenance, sanctum, etc). Why would I try to optimize an NPC instead of giving them appropriate abilities?


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Kurald Galain wrote:
Mightypion wrote:
Mythic gets off the rails due to 2 reasons:

And a third reason: it substantially slows down gameplay, in the hands of most players I've seen use it.

If PCs have special powers that they can use only during special boss fights, that's likely going to slow down that boss fight, and I'm not really seeing any benefit to doing this. In fact, the players may find it anticlimactic because they only defeated the boss because of a "deus ex machina" power boost.

I'd suggest to skip it.

Hmm, it doesnt slow things down too much for me, but I am mostly playing martial.

Like, my decision making is: "Do I use any mythic stuff, other then amazing initiative, offensively? Because doing so takes my immidiate action, which means I dont have that ability up for defensive purposes".

The one that massively slow down things are the spell caster hijinks.

Shadow Lodge

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Mightypion wrote:
Kurald Galain wrote:
Mightypion wrote:
Mythic gets off the rails due to 2 reasons:

And a third reason: it substantially slows down gameplay, in the hands of most players I've seen use it.

If PCs have special powers that they can use only during special boss fights, that's likely going to slow down that boss fight, and I'm not really seeing any benefit to doing this. In fact, the players may find it anticlimactic because they only defeated the boss because of a "deus ex machina" power boost.

I'd suggest to skip it.

Hmm, it doesnt slow things down too much for me, but I am mostly playing martial.

Like, my decision making is: "Do I use any mythic stuff, other then amazing initiative, offensively? Because doing so takes my immidiate action, which means I dont have that ability up for defensive purposes".

The one that massively slow down things are the spell caster hijinks.

Actually, I think you've got Immediate actions backwards, as they 'share a slot' with your next turn's swift action rather than your previous turn.

Source PRPG Core Rulebook pg. 189

Much like a swift action, an immediate action consumes a very small amount of time but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action. However, unlike a swift action, an immediate action can be performed at any time—even if it’s not your turn. Casting feather fall is an immediate action, since the spell can be cast at any time.

Using an immediate action on your turn is the same as using a swift action and counts as your swift action for that turn. You cannot use another immediate action or a swift action until after your next turn if you have used an immediate action when it is not currently your turn (effectively, using an immediate action before your turn is equivalent to using your swift action for the coming turn). You also cannot use an immediate action if you are flat-footed.

Swift and Immediate actions basically reset at the end of your turn (except they basically first become available at the start of your first turn), so using a swift action during your turn will never prevent you from using an immediate action between the end of this turn and the start of your next turn.

It's one of those rules I have to keep looking up each time in comes into play...


Keeping draconian track of Swift/Immediate actions is the best way to keep mythic somewhat playable though. Especially if the class has uses for its swift actions on a regular basis. The paladin in my game often had to wait smiting or laying on hands because he used his immediate action on Mythic Shenanigans.


Senko wrote:
I don't even optimize my mythic characters (immortality, mythic sustenance, sanctum, etc). Why would I try to optimize an NPC instead of giving them appropriate abilities?

Seems like this advice either:

(i) still applies to you and you would buld NPCs balanced to any PC you built, or
(ii) is relevant for players who aren't you

[shrug]

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