Aether / Void in Rage of Elements?


Rage of Elements Playtest General Discussion

Dark Archive

I'm curious if Aether and/or Void Elements will make return in the actual release book :O They were never strictly elemental plane elements in 1e, but they were fascinating ones

Sczarni

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

No. They won't. Just wood is returning from 1e and a new element, metal, will be making an appearance.

I didn't care much for Aether, but I am very very sad to see void not in it. Hopefully in the future, we may get void.


They seem like they are being strongly tied to Primal. I’d guess Void will be more Occult ?


I could see Telekineticist and Chaokineticist as class archetypes, but they won't be in this book.

Dark Archive

Lanathar wrote:
They seem like they are being strongly tied to Primal. I’d guess Void will be more Occult ?

To be specific, aether and void elements existed in 1e as both kineticist elements and wizard elementalist schools.(aether elementals are also a thing) Aether was result of elemental planes touching on etherreal plane while kineticist void was elemental energy touching negative energy plane. Wizard void element was more of philosophical thing. Aether element blast was just telekinesis while void was weird mix of darkness and gravity based abilities.

(aether was option in same book kineticist was introduced in and void was added in that book's player's companion add-on)

But yeah after reading playtest and seeing all elements have their own class feats, I'm not particularly surprised these two likely won't be in release because uh, six elements worth of class feats is a lot so they likely will add them later if they do


With how many Feats are in the playtest, I think the final Kineticist’s six elements is already going to be straining the pagecount.


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I don't know if we need to view the Kineticist as getting too many feats, since ultimately a large number of the impulse feats are just comparable to other classes getting focus spells (and sometimes there are quite a few of those). It's just that the impulse feats are in the same place as the rest of the class and the focus spells are often in a different chapter.


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I think aether and void are probably not going to happen in PF2.

- We aren't getting many expansions to subclass lists in general. Dark Archives, which was a potential fit for many classes, only added a single subclass for an existing class.

- A new element is big. Two pages of feats, and at least one piece of art.

- There's a shift in lore between PF1 and PF2. Aether, wood, and void all had more complicated explanations for what their power source was- interactions between planes (elental planes with each other, the First World, and the negative energy plane respectively). In PF2, we are getting new elemental planes for wood and metal, so the kineticist is only drawing directly from elemental planes. Void could just draw from the negative energy plane directly, but aether is out of luck- at least for planes under primal's purview.

But, my track record on predictions is spotty, so apply as much salt as you'd like.

I can absolutely say with confidence that Paizo is not hiding two whole elements for the new book when they've already announced what elements will be added post-playtest.

Dark Archive

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Dark Archive makes mention of aether and telekinesis existing though(and it was already in 1e explained to be related to ethereal plane)

I'm already pretty convinced that no way we get more than 6 elements in rage of elements, but not so sure about we never getting final two.


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Yeah I am confused on the whole thing to be honest. There is no reason why aether shoule be missing when its one of the main kineticist elements. While the creation of metal as its own thing just throws a bunch of wrenches into how a lot of things work.

There just doesn't seem to be any reasons for two elements to just vanish into thin air .


It's for the same reason aeons became LN. Aesthetic preferences of decision makers at Paizo.


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They aren’t in RoE, but it’s not such a leap to imagine Kineticists who are gates to other planes.

Now, should we expect to see them anytime soon? Ask the Investigator how long he’s been waiting for a new Methodology.


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The slight shift in kineticist themes into being more of an avatar bender coupled with telekinetic rend, telekinetic projectile, dancing blade, and the granted spells of distant grasp make me think that psychic might have swallowed up those two types of kineticist. I'm not personally bummed by that (distant grasp is my favorite psychic) but I can understand if a fan of the 1e kineticist was disappointed


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
CorvusMask wrote:

Dark Archive makes mention of aether and telekinesis existing though(and it was already in 1e explained to be related to ethereal plane)

I'm already pretty convinced that no way we get more than 6 elements in rage of elements, but not so sure about we never getting final two.

Secrets of Magic also specifically calls in out, referring to it as a fifth elemental substance formed when the elements interact with the Ethereal Plane. So the 1e lore is still there. As is its correlation to Force.

It also posits that Aether is the same as Quintessense, which is suggested to be Spirit Essense made manifest like Matter Essense. An interesting idea, since it would suggest that the Outer Planes are made of Aether as an elemental material.

Interestingly, the same section mentions ectoplasm being another physical manifestation of Spirit, when influenced by the Material Plane. Not sure if this would suggest ectoplasm is also elemental in nature. But it is an interesting question.
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Likewise, Void is also mentioned in Secrets of Magic; capitalized, suggesting it is a proper noun in universe. It is specifically called out in relation to some "elemental grammar" suggested by one Dr. Si-Dao Yi, of the Imperial College of Lingshen, in their writings "Language of the Void".

Agmazar the Star Titan also uses Channel Void when summoned via the Summon Kaiju spell, dealing negative damage. This would suggest Void is still tied to some relation to the Negative Energy Plane, likely exactly as was presented in 1e, as it still seems to be regarded as an Element, if the "elemental grammar" bit is to be taken at face value.

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So, as far as I can tell, they still exist in-canon as proper Elements; which may now even include ectoplasm. I would love to throw ectoplasm in someone's face. :D

I think it is just a matter of waiting. The Kineticist primary lore is as an manipulator of the elemental matter that makes up the Material Plane. I think we will get into the more obscure or occult ideas later. I think sticking to the Elemental Planes of the Inner Sphere makes the most sense here. On top of giving us the Class, it will properly establish the cosmology and lore around those places, and give them more of a front and center role than they ever truly had in 1e.

Dark Archive

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Small correction on my part: I was confusing Secrets of Magic and Dark Archive in my head, dark archive didn't discuss elemental lore at all I think

Sczarni

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I really really hope void makes it in one day. Void and earth were my two favorite elements.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I think a good place for those other Elements could be included in a book(s) about the other Planes within the Inner Sphere. The Negative Energy Plane, Positive Energy Plane, Ethereal Plane, Shadow Plane, and First World. Maybe include some of the Demiplanes and Dimensions that sit within the Inner Sphere, like the Dreamlands or Dimension of Time.

I think they each have enough going for them that they could have individual books that really take a deep dive into them. But that is wishful thinking on my part. Still, where ever they see inclusion as a major point of writing, I can see the other Elements coming into play.


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Well, we're getting a book about the six elemental planes. So I wonder if we couldn't get a book about the four transitive planes (Astral, Ethereal, Shadow, and the First World) plus the Positive and Negative Energy Planes.

I'd prefer to give the First World a book unto itself a la the Book of the Dead, but this could work as a grouping and we'd have covered all the inner planes.


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It may be worth pointing out for those not already aware, but the Void is actually already one of the common names for the Negative Energy Plane. I have taken to referring to it and the energies which come therefrom as such in my own games. Granted sometimes void in canon refers instead to the vacuum of space but that's just what happens when there are only so many evocative terms for similar-enough concepts.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
QuidEst wrote:

I think aether and void are probably not going to happen in PF2.

- We aren't getting many expansions to subclass lists in general. Dark Archives, which was a potential fit for many classes, only added a single subclass for an existing class.

- A new element is big. Two pages of feats, and at least one piece of art.

- There's a shift in lore between PF1 and PF2. Aether, wood, and void all had more complicated explanations for what their power source was- interactions between planes (elental planes with each other, the First World, and the negative energy plane respectively). In PF2, we are getting new elemental planes for wood and metal, so the kineticist is only drawing directly from elemental planes. Void could just draw from the negative energy plane directly, but aether is out of luck- at least for planes under primal's purview.

But, my track record on predictions is spotty, so apply as much salt as you'd like.

I can absolutely say with confidence that Paizo is not hiding two whole elements for the new book when they've already announced what elements will be added post-playtest.

I'm personally expecting to see more of an emphasis on additional support for existing classes in the edition's latter years. When the question shifts from "What of the many things we want to do win the fight for page space?" to "How do we fill out a book with things we havent done yet?"

Specifically its been said that general archetypes allow them to publish support for way more players than class specific content with the same page space. It also has the benefit of being able to most clearly see what the holes are before they fill them.


The-Magic-Sword wrote:
QuidEst wrote:

I think aether and void are probably not going to happen in PF2.

- We aren't getting many expansions to subclass lists in general. Dark Archives, which was a potential fit for many classes, only added a single subclass for an existing class.

- A new element is big. Two pages of feats, and at least one piece of art.

- There's a shift in lore between PF1 and PF2. Aether, wood, and void all had more complicated explanations for what their power source was- interactions between planes (elental planes with each other, the First World, and the negative energy plane respectively). In PF2, we are getting new elemental planes for wood and metal, so the kineticist is only drawing directly from elemental planes. Void could just draw from the negative energy plane directly, but aether is out of luck- at least for planes under primal's purview.

But, my track record on predictions is spotty, so apply as much salt as you'd like.

I can absolutely say with confidence that Paizo is not hiding two whole elements for the new book when they've already announced what elements will be added post-playtest.

I'm personally expecting to see more of an emphasis on additional support for existing classes in the edition's latter years. When the question shifts from "What of the many things we want to do win the fight for page space?" to "How do we fill out a book with things we havent done yet?"

Specifically its been said that general archetypes allow them to publish support for way more players than class specific content with the same page space. It also has the benefit of being able to most clearly see what the holes are before they fill them.

That's a pretty good point, yeah.

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