Things that I love


Kineticist Class

Sczarni

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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I criticized a lot about damage potential, but let me explain what I love.

Dedicate gate/dual gate/universal gate.

I love this concept but I don't think it goes far enough in differentiating them. But even still, I love that you can start out being multiple elements.

Flinging updraft and other utility

The utility spells look very fun and engaging

The overflow names at higher levels fills my anime weeaboo desire.

Picking feats instead of just being another spellcasting class is the right move and direction.


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I love the two pools of feats to choose from: class and impulse. Do you want general kineticist goodies or do you wanna be THE fire/air person? Make your choice! Very cool from a character building standpoint.


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber

I like that you can further differentiate your character by either going all in on overflow or avoiding it like the plague.

While clunky, I think the overflow mechanic is interesting to play with.


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AnimatedPaper wrote:

I like that you can further differentiate your character by either going all in on overflow or avoiding it like the plague.

While clunky, I think the overflow mechanic is interesting to play with.

Definitely, tweaking numbers or tweaking actions will leave most overflow abilities really appealing I think. I really like the design space of spending your stance for spell like affects


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I really like the magic martial chassis of the magus and summoner. This feels a lot like them minus spells. I like elemental blasts and I like that you can make a strength based ranged character. Hope that sticks around.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I love overflow and think it's a really cool idea. The closest thing we have to at will area attacks are so limited. And devs captured most of the best utility for each element and successfully made them at will. I didn't think we'd get variations of stone skin and wall of stone, but here we are.


The utility is all good as far as I can tell. Flinging updraft in particular looks like a lot of fun to both position/rescue allies as well as potentially screw over enemies. No size limitation too. Powerful control tool.


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I may have quibles with damage or mechanical interactions like AoO, but ultimately the design of the class (a martial attacker that spends their stance to cast slotless spell like effects) is a winner for me in terms of mechanics and themes. I think as a rough draft it's an excellent, fun class and I hope it more or less still resembles this when the final iteration drops. Kudos to the team


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

i love the utility impulses, most of them feel really good to me!


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There are indeed a lot of good utility abilities.


Good to have a more positive thread.

I love the thematic of Inner Gates. Dedicated-, Dual-, and Universal- seem to be great starting points for deciding what type of kineticist you want to be. They need more work in my opinion (being class paths that auto-upgrade with level) but the core idea seems to be there and functional.

I love Kinetic Auras, and really hope dual-gate can get a way to maintain 2 auras of different elements at the same time.

I love that Kinetic Blasts have a melee option at the start. Kinetic Blade was always a quick pick on the PF1 version of the class for me - and I really like the idea of Kineticists being good switch hitters that can seamlessly change between melee & ranged combat.


Yeah I like how some of the hoops of 1E's kineticist are just things you can do now, that's nice.

I'll add my voice to the liking for gates; having that choice from the beginning rather than picking more elements as you level does a lot to make starting kineticists feel different to me.

I also like how each element's list feels distinct from the others, but they still have a few points where they overlap but in different ways and at different levels, like how Earth and Air can both heal differently from each other.

I'm also a big fan of the kineticist playing around with traits either through their elemental blasts or with feats like Kinetic Weapon.


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WWHsmackdown wrote:
I may have quibles with damage or mechanical interactions like AoO, but ultimately the design of the class (a martial attacker that spends their stance to cast slotless spell like effects) is a winner for me in terms of mechanics and themes. I think as a rough draft it's an excellent, fun class and I hope it more or less still resembles this when the final iteration drops. Kudos to the team

Agreed. My list of changes right now would be:

1) More damage to most overflow impulses.
2) Melee blasts need to not provoke AoO
3) Improve air blast by removing agile for d6 dice
4) Rework a few bad utility blasts (lower priority since so many really are that good)


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Dubious Scholar wrote:
WWHsmackdown wrote:
I may have quibles with damage or mechanical interactions like AoO, but ultimately the design of the class (a martial attacker that spends their stance to cast slotless spell like effects) is a winner for me in terms of mechanics and themes. I think as a rough draft it's an excellent, fun class and I hope it more or less still resembles this when the final iteration drops. Kudos to the team

Agreed. My list of changes right now would be:

1) More damage to most overflow impulses.
2) Melee blasts need to not provoke AoO
3) Improve air blast by removing agile for d6 dice
4) Rework a few bad utility blasts (lower priority since so many really are that good)

I agree with most of this, but I love air blast having agile, and it is worth more than the one point of damage per damage die.

I am not opposed to one point of extra damage coming to all the blasts, but agile on ranged attacks was my favorite surprise of this whole playtest. People think third attacks are useless, but with agile, your third attack can still crit on a 20 10% more often than attacks without it, and that boosts your DPR decently, especially when you have property runes on your hand wraps


Agile ranged attacks are pretty nice. Only other source of that is thrown weapons and the air repeater. Maybe they'll add further feats to customize your blasts outside of making them finesse or brutal like adjusting die sizes for the purposes of agile.


I wonder what they're going to do with metal. I imagine it would have all b/s/p since metal is closely tied to weapons in fantasy and they come in every form. I don't know if I'd like it if it only came in slashing or something. How is that going to feed into it's stats I wonder. Maybe d6 agile finesse and d6 agile 30 feet ranged. Is that worth every damage type?


I love that they went for a martial-alike, and at-will fire Blasts honestly nail the fantasy for me. The weird utility abilities existing from level 1 is also killer - some of the most exciting Feats in the game, and you get to play with them right at the start!


Good time to have a positive thread. It can't be easy being a developer and primarily read comments and threads bashing your love child.

I like:

1. Gates. It's a cool way to represent different connections to the plane. Personally I wouldnt mind a baseline or an opt in way to further focus on gate choices.

2. Switch hitting as a baseline. If they can tinker a bit with elemental weapon etc I'd be very happy to play a class the actually benefits from switching up their combat style.

3. Flinging updraft and the like. Super flavorful and fun ways to add CC / mobility.

4. Auras. What can I say, I like auras that actually impact my gameplay.

Honestly if they could make variable actions a core concept for the class and had more support for melee. This would prolly be a contender for funniest class for me personally (assuming damage etc is fixes).

Sczarni

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Lollerabe wrote:

Good time to have a positive thread. It can't be easy being a developer and primarily read comments and threads bashing your love child.

I like:

1. Gates. It's a cool way to represent different connections to the plane. Personally I wouldnt mind a baseline or an opt in way to further focus on gate choices.

2. Switch hitting as a baseline. If they can tinker a bit with elemental weapon etc I'd be very happy to play a class the actually benefits from switching up their combat style.

3. Flinging updraft and the like. Super flavorful and fun ways to add CC / mobility.

4. Auras. What can I say, I like auras that actually impact my gameplay.

Honestly if they could make variable actions a core concept for the class and had more support for melee. This would prolly be a contender for funniest class for me personally (assuming damage etc is fixes).

The funniest class? =P


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Yeah, sometimes my Danish gets mixed in if it's early :)

The most interesting to play. The most fun to play, or what have you.

Not 22 charisma bon mot funny


Things that I like.

- At-will utility Impulses
- Kinetic Auras
- Fast damage type/dice/range/traits change (I don't need to buy many feats to change the Strikes like Monks stances)


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Ironically for someone who has long been great at math, I'm actually no good at feeling numbers, so much of my discussions has been taking people's word for numerical stuff and just going off my feels. And my feels actually adore much of the class. Here's some of the highlights for me:

> Your basic thing is just... lashing out with elemental matter.
> Every element's blast is unique. It would've been so easy for them to just give a generic "Blast" attack, that the only thing that changed was elemental trait (and that Fire would do Fire damage) like they gave Sorc, but instead they made each Blast unique. And that's awesome.
> Air's ranged blast is a fricken' sniper with that 120 foot range increment.
> Even Air's melee blast is Reach, which I just find a fun way to translate over "your element is the ranged element" even in melee.
> For that matter, Melee is just... a thing that you can do. Now if it can just stop provoking.
> Between the better damage, Propulsive on Range, and Flexible Blasts, Strength-based Earth build is a valid build. May take some extra investment, but possible.
> Honestly, the Blasts in general just have a lot of flavor just in the choice of traits. Air likes to keep their distance, Fire's a general-purpose assault, Earth is strong like boulder with the most Strength support, and Water's melee at least really gives that feeling of flowing strikes with Sweep.
> Adapt Element does give some great flavor. There's something just fun about the fact that if you're at a stuffy dinner party and bored you can just pull a couple flames off the candelabra centerpiece and sit there 'juggling' them. Bonus points for the fact that if you do so and a fight breaks out as they always do in the middle of the event you're now Combat Ready.
> For that matter, Gather Element having some built in utility is fun. The Pyrokineticist Gathering flame to provide light, the Hydrokineticist Gathering water to quench their thirst (more reliable than Cactus Juice, even if it is the Quenchiest). Aerokineticist always having that anime blowing cloak, even a mile underground in a sealed room (and possibly being able to breathe off their Gathered air, GM permitting). And of course Geokineticist just rocks. /shot
> Extract Element, AKA "bringing a Pyrokineticist to the Fire Dragon hunting adventure actually isn't a half-bad idea". Also it's flavorful as heck, just reaching out a hand towards the Dragon/Elemental/whatever and using your greater Claim to just forcibly pull the very elemental essence from their core, just to turn around and smack them back in the face with it.
> Having separate paths for the single-focused Kineticist (always super flavorful), two-element focused (still super flavorful, but now with backup element for utility and Immunities not covered under Extract, probably my favorite path RN TBH), or full Avatar (enough said) all available at level 1.
> Proliferate, an ability that lets you violate conservation of matter that doesn't disappear a minute later. Turn a vial of air into a breathable pocket, throw your cigarette at someone and expand it into a raging inferno, flood the banks of the river to tie up your opponent, turn a pebble into a field of natural caltrops. Also, it'll be really interesting to see how Paizo words this one when Metal comes out, since turning a thrown Adamantine dagger into a 5-foot field of Adamantine Blades might just break the economy.
> Purify. Yes there's the obvious elements, stripping toxins from water, clearing gas from the air, something about plants and earth... but I just love the mental image of a Pyrokineticist who runs into a group of Sarenrite extremists going on about "purifying by fire" and being like "okay but my flames can purify fire itself," and just leaving them speechless.
> Elemental Familiar. Familiars are already cute, but now you can get a firefox, a bird made from clouds, a vaporeon, a carbuncle... the list goes on. They're made all the cuter by being elemental incarnate IMO.
> Elemental Weapon still being able to use appropriate blasts. Give the Aerokineticist a wind-rapier that they can slash through the air to wind-blade an enemy at Reach, or (GM permitting) a cloud Air Repeater shooting real air they can still snipe with. A Geokineticist with a cannon of a Mace Multipistol, smack someone's face in then hotswap to gun form and shoot a boulder at someone. Oh if only there were a one-handed proper Gunblade rather than Dagger or Rapier for some real Cannonblade shenanigans.
> Kinetic Activation, holding up a scroll of Fireball, having it burst into flames in your hand, and you sling a Fireball spell with it. Just gotta get around that Proficiency issue.
> Command Elemental is just cool and flavorful.
> Cycling Blast is super cool, giving that feeling you are actually dual-wielding elements.
> Deconstruct Element. There's something super cool about your enemy shooting something at you and you not only deflect it, you absorb it, and launch it back at them your next turn.
> Fusion Blast. Like Cycling, getting that feeling of actually dual-wielding elements. Also, Fusing one of the high-damage elements like Earth or Water onto an Air Blast to deliver good damage at 120 feet like a boss.
> Gather Amalgamation, or as I like to call it "going full Avatar."
> Maelstrom Blast, while a pain to use when your party is mixing it up in melee, is nonetheless super cool aesthetically. Just unleashing a 60-foot wave of fire, or 120-foot hurricane blast, or even just the simple 20-foot Earth Shotgun.
> A vast majority of the non-Overflow Impulses are super cool, especially the level 1 ones. Ignoring Fall Damage, aura of "stay way from me", exceptionally long-range communication that doesn't even need line of effect, Tremorsense (which even becomes a Precise Sense at 13!), instant stairs (or, GM permitting, ramp for all the wheelchair-using Kineticists), the best Shield Block'ing Shield in the game, Jet Propulsion, multi-use Light (that can even be used to deal Fire damage in an emergency), a pretty effective defensive water block, hydraulic repositioning for your allies (that doesn't even cost them a reaction)... these are all just things you can take at level 1.
> Yeeting Flinging Updraft, something that lets you move enemies without counting as Forced Movement. Finally you can just toss an enemy off a cliff, or into a raging fire. Also later lets you toss your entire party over a gap.
> At Will Flight, with additional benefits, at level 8.
> A lot of the later Impulses have amazing names.


aobst128 wrote:
I wonder what they're going to do with metal. I imagine it would have all b/s/p since metal is closely tied to weapons in fantasy and they come in every form. I don't know if I'd like it if it only came in slashing or something. How is that going to feed into it's stats I wonder. Maybe d6 agile finesse and d6 agile 30 feet ranged. Is that worth every damage type?

I know earth in PF1 gave all three damage types (original weapons were made of stone after all!), but is currently limited to just bludgeoning. Unless they alter the available base damage types for blasts in general, I highly doubt metal will have access to all three physical damage types (& especially not with both agile & finesse).

Considering nearly all the elements are currently bludgeoning (or versatile bludgeoning), I image they'll do something like metal = slashing & wood = piercing to make things a bit more diverse.

---

And actually something else I love. I love how they're not just going to base kineticists around the western alchemical elements (air, earth, fire, wind), but will also allow kineticists to focus on the eastern elements (earth, fire, metal, water, wood). While I know some are disappointed on not having aether as part off the base - I was never particularly attached to it.


Charon Onozuka wrote:
aobst128 wrote:
I wonder what they're going to do with metal. I imagine it would have all b/s/p since metal is closely tied to weapons in fantasy and they come in every form. I don't know if I'd like it if it only came in slashing or something. How is that going to feed into it's stats I wonder. Maybe d6 agile finesse and d6 agile 30 feet ranged. Is that worth every damage type?

I know earth in PF1 gave all three damage types (original weapons were made of stone after all!), but is currently limited to just bludgeoning. Unless they alter the available base damage types for blasts in general, I highly doubt metal will have access to all three physical damage types (& especially not with both agile & finesse).

Considering nearly all the elements are currently bludgeoning (or versatile bludgeoning), I image they'll do something like metal = slashing & wood = piercing to make things a bit more diverse.

---

And actually something else I love. I love how they're not just going to base kineticists around the western alchemical elements (air, earth, fire, wind), but will also allow kineticists to focus on the eastern elements (earth, fire, metal, water, wood). While I know some are disappointed on not having aether as part off the base - I was never particularly attached to it.

Makes sense. All I'm saying is that it's just going to be weird when I ask for a hammer from the elemental plane of metal and I get an axe instead.

Sczarni

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Charon Onozuka wrote:
aobst128 wrote:
I wonder what they're going to do with metal. I imagine it would have all b/s/p since metal is closely tied to weapons in fantasy and they come in every form. I don't know if I'd like it if it only came in slashing or something. How is that going to feed into it's stats I wonder. Maybe d6 agile finesse and d6 agile 30 feet ranged. Is that worth every damage type?

I know earth in PF1 gave all three damage types (original weapons were made of stone after all!), but is currently limited to just bludgeoning. Unless they alter the available base damage types for blasts in general, I highly doubt metal will have access to all three physical damage types (& especially not with both agile & finesse).

Considering nearly all the elements are currently bludgeoning (or versatile bludgeoning), I image they'll do something like metal = slashing & wood = piercing to make things a bit more diverse.

---

And actually something else I love. I love how they're not just going to base kineticists around the western alchemical elements (air, earth, fire, wind), but will also allow kineticists to focus on the eastern elements (earth, fire, metal, water, wood). While I know some are disappointed on not having aether as part off the base - I was never particularly attached to it.

Personally, I miss void =P


Metal could have the modular trait and fit I believe. Shaping the metal takes a moment. Tie it to gather and it works similarly to how reloading a hand cannon works.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

While some might say some abilities like the basically perma-flight are too strong I kinda like that the Kineticist is the best at some of the tools it has. It doesn't have nearly the breadth of a caster but when it has a similar tool from control of elements it's a bit better if only by proxy of being at will but often just generally.

Kinda feels like this class focused on elemental manipulation as its gimmick is able to in some ways use elements better than a caster.

I feel like they got the general feel of the 1e version right with the format of the class.

And Elemental Weapon is deceptively versatile and I keep finding new ways to use it.

Lastly, I was wondering how they would balance some of these feats for the archetype. But then I realized a lot of the auras that are great are only busted with a feat to exempt your allies that would be high level in archetype. The perma-flight option? It's at a level where to grab it in archetype you'd be about the level flying ancestries get unlimited flight. That's good craftsmanship right there. Already has some balances in there! Lol.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber

As an aside, one other thing I like is that the sheer breadth of combination effects gives us clues as to how much the designers value various game effects. I haven’t had a chance to finish analysis, but I look forward to having more numbers to play with when homebrewing.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Another thing I love is how crawling flame and suffocating orb get to make melee attacks form range. This is a really cool idea and I hope it works where it combines with some of feats related to blasts.

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