Elemental Blast would be stronger for Fighters than Kineticists


Kineticist Class


Without any sort of damage bonus built in for Kineticists with their Elemental Blast I could easily see them becoming more popular for other classes to pick up via archetype than Kineticists themselves. I do think it would be cool for other classes to pick Elemental Blasts up! I think their are in a good place right now and an interesting alternative to other ranged weapons. I'd just like to see the Kineticist get a little extra oomph built in to the class that won't be given away in the archetype.


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So is flurry of blows


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So is pretty much everything that isn't a spell attack roll attack.


Martialmasters wrote:
So is flurry of blows

Flurry of Blows doesn't work with it, though. (Probably intentionally.)


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

fighters cannot get legendary in kinetic blast before 19 because they do not have a weapon type.


QuidEst wrote:
Martialmasters wrote:
So is flurry of blows
Flurry of Blows doesn't work with it, though. (Probably intentionally.)

That's... Not what I meant lol. Fighters are better monks because they can get flurry of blows.

Fighters likely will be better blast users the way things are currently as well


I don't think that fighters can even pick the blasts for better proficiency as they are not in any weapon group.


Kekkres wrote:
fighters cannot get legendary in kinetic blast before 19 because they do not have a weapon type.

You can sorta cheese this by taking something like martial artist which progresses your proficiency in unarmed attacks. A decent amount of work, yes, but still possible.

At the moment, most martials are actually better than the kineticist at kinetic blasting because most martials use str/dex as their primary stat and kineticist don't... so if the archetype allows Kinetic Blast to be picked up (and honestly, why wouldn't it?) then there's going to be that slight edge they have. Which makes things a bit awkward. You could circumvent this by putting a hard cap on kinetic blast proficiencies or even removing it from the archetype, but that would make the kineticist archetype pretty lackluster.


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Renkosuke wrote:
Kekkres wrote:
fighters cannot get legendary in kinetic blast before 19 because they do not have a weapon type.

You can sorta cheese this by taking something like martial artist which progresses your proficiency in unarmed attacks. A decent amount of work, yes, but still possible.

At the moment, most martials are actually better than the kineticist at kinetic blasting because most martials use str/dex as their primary stat and kineticist don't... so if the archetype allows Kinetic Blast to be picked up (and honestly, why wouldn't it?) then there's going to be that slight edge they have. Which makes things a bit awkward. You could circumvent this by putting a hard cap on kinetic blast proficiencies or even removing it from the archetype, but that would make the kineticist archetype pretty lackluster.

that is most likely 5 feats to accomplish and at that point im fine with it,


Martialmasters wrote:
QuidEst wrote:
Martialmasters wrote:
So is flurry of blows
Flurry of Blows doesn't work with it, though. (Probably intentionally.)

That's... Not what I meant lol. Fighters are better monks because they can get flurry of blows.

Fighters likely will be better blast users the way things are currently as well

I would argue that the monk counting unarmed strikes as various metals gives them an edge versus a lot of enemies. Which is kind of what I want for the blasts too tbh. Neat riders or extra bits thar only primary kineticists get to add


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

A martial MCing for Blasts is having to waste an action to gather, has to keep that hand occupied as long as they want to make blasts and can't use it with any of their feats. Quick draw and a bow will be better almost all of the time for a ranged option. To get a ranged option that can use strength, that requires another feat on top of the original and you'd have to be level 8 before you could possibly pick up barrage blast to get the action economy you need out of it.

What makes it better for kineticists is that having a gathered element is useful to you for everything else you want to do, so having one hand with an element in it enables everything you want to do.

For a fighter, having a hand occupied by a gathered element will largely interfere with everything you want to do. You cant even use free hand feats because those require you to be holding a weapon in one hand. Without the extra feats at level 1, it takes a very long time for any other class to get much use out of a Kineticist MC.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

Even if you can get your legendary proficiency in them via picking the group unarmed strikes are in (since blasts use your unarmed strikes proficiency) they aren't in the brawling group so the fighter can't get crit spec with them. In fact I suspect blasts having their own crit spec is on purpose for that and other reasons.

They also don't count as weapons so they can't be used with things like Power Attack.

The only use they would have for it is spending another feat to give the ranged form Brutal.

Well that and having access to a weapon that deals fire damage. Which is one reason I think the base blasts should all be physical and there be some Kineticist only thing that unlocks energy damage for them.

Though elemental weapon might have weird interactions in fighter hands.


They'll be useful for other strength focused classes just for the ranged option if they also pick up flexible blasts but I think the final release will have some kind of booster to be more effective with them that poachers won't have access to along with good class feats hopefully.


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You use your blast proficiency with your elemental weapon, not your weapon proficiency.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
cheezeofjustice wrote:

Even if you can get your legendary proficiency in them via picking the group unarmed strikes are in (since blasts use your unarmed strikes proficiency) they aren't in the brawling group so the fighter can't get crit spec with them. In fact I suspect blasts having their own crit spec is on purpose for that and other reasons.

They also don't count as weapons so they can't be used with things like Power Attack.

The only use they would have for it is spending another feat to give the ranged form Brutal.

Well that and having access to a weapon that deals fire damage. Which is one reason I think the base blasts should all be physical and there be some Kineticist only thing that unlocks energy damage for them.

Though elemental weapon might have weird interactions in fighter hands.

Largely agreed, although I think it'll still have utility for people to make entirely blast centric pseudo kineticists depending on the feats in the actual archetype, but that's good if anything-- a certain kind of player is going to love that "I blast them in the face" game play.


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Sorry, did I miss them printing a multiclass dedication with the playtest? Because I don't see how we cann speculate abouth classes interacting with it otherwise.


Captain Morgan wrote:
Sorry, did I miss them printing a multiclass dedication with the playtest? Because I don't see how we cann speculate abouth classes interacting with it otherwise.

We can speculate. It's just that we don't have much to work with.


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Its really not hard to speculate what they will do with archetypes.

Honestly the hardest part to figure out is how proficiency will be handled because of how convoluted the playtest version is.

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