What 1e kineticist abilities do you miss?


Kineticist Class


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What abilities could you take with the 1e kineticist, and that do not appear in the 2e playtest, that you miss and hope to see come back in some form?

For me, it's Impale. I don't recall seeing an equivalent in the playtest. An earth kineticist that can't summon a spike of earth just seems like it's missing something to me.

Let's not debate Burn and such here. Please start another thread for such involved discussions.

Sczarni

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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Changing your blast into shapes and giving it new properties.


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All day, always on, layered elemental defense.


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Both of the above, and also some of the universal abilities, like being able to go to and from your associated elemental plane, or summon up an elemental buddy, or transform into an elemental temporarily. I get why these may not have arrived in the playtest, playtests are more about testing new mechanics rather than slapping in easily-implemented feats, but still.

The more I think about it the more it feels like the 1E kineticist was something of a precursor to PF2E's feat siloing system.


The ability to change the type and abilities of the blast at will. The ability to choose spending more action or my HP to use blasts quickly. The layered always one elemental defenses (even if they can be shut down at will). The fact utility had more variety, it feels like the playtest just has everyone get the same thing with a different side effect.


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Basic blasts for each element [except earth and fire] having a choice of doing elemental or physical damage.


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Haven't played this yet, but everything Aether. Aether was my favorite element for the unlimited utility potential. Telekinetic Haul to carry everything heavy, Foe Throw to just toss people around, Telekinetic Invisibility, Force Hook, Disintegrate, all that good stuff. Just looking at the playtest currently, and having not played 2e before, it feels heavily stripped down. If I remember right, though, 2e follows more along the lines of 5e which has a lot in small packages.

Sczarni

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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
PossibleCabbage wrote:
All day, always on, layered elemental defense.

This one most definitely.


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DarkSpyro92 wrote:
Haven't played this yet, but everything Aether. Aether was my favorite element for the unlimited utility potential. Telekinetic Haul to carry everything heavy, Foe Throw to just toss people around, Telekinetic Invisibility, Force Hook, Disintegrate, all that good stuff. Just looking at the playtest currently, and having not played 2e before, it feels heavily stripped down. If I remember right, though, 2e follows more along the lines of 5e which has a lot in small packages.

Wasn’t Aether mostly telekinesis? Isn’t this now in the psychic? How did aether work from a planes perspective in 1E? Did it have it’s own one or was it the connections between? It seems like they are sticking close to the actual elemental planes and have decided on 6


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Perpdepog wrote:

Both of the above, and also some of the universal abilities, like being able to go to and from your associated elemental plane, or summon up an elemental buddy, or transform into an elemental temporarily. I get why these may not have arrived in the playtest, playtests are more about testing new mechanics rather than slapping in easily-implemented feats, but still.

The more I think about it the more it feels like the 1E kineticist was something of a precursor to PF2E's feat siloing system.

To me is is absolutely not a coincidence that the 1E Kineticist has siloed feats, core features built into the class and scaling numbers and shared a designer with 2E

I remember my Kineticist player getting frustrated because there was nothing unique that they could buy to directly boost their Kineticist abilities - so not stat boosters (apart from the diadem). Looking back this almost seems intentional


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- Elemental Defense
- Powerful utility. Aetherkineticist could build a fortress out of force at 18th. Now... Earth can make a five foot cube, and Water has a pseudo-capstone to slightly raise or lower a small area of water? Hydrokineticist did that at level 6 before, and now it's 18? It went from 60x60 raised twelve feet at 6th, to 40 ft diameter raised ten feet at 18th.

Look, I know you're not a spellcaster and this stuff is at-will, but if I've spent twenty levels mastering an element, I should be able to do something impressive. Make a stone fortress, flood... I mean, at least a field, right? I know "flood a city" is probably asking too much, but I should at least be able to make a farmer regret incurring my wrath without taking... (checks math) Three and a half minutes per acre, provided there's accessible water already. Air is doing fine with the upgrades on its lower level utility, and fire can do cool phoenix stuff.
- Some specific abilities that I've already mentioned in my thread, so I won't spam. The class works fine without them.


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Pathfinder Pawns, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

It does seem odd that fire can burn down cities, but water can't reliably flood small fields.

Hopefully we're just not seeing all the powers and there are other high level goodies behind the veil that make the elements more balanced towards one another.


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I would love some universal overflow abilities just to cover some basics. Something like 'deal 2d6 + 1d6 per 2 levels damage to enemies in a line on a basic reflex save. The damage type is the same damage type as the your gathered element deals on a kinetic blast'. No utility, just a good old fashioned blast that any kineticist can pick up, and some may feel less forced into a specific element to do better blasting.


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Ravingdork wrote:

It does seem odd that fire can burn down cities, but water can't reliably flood small fields.

Hopefully we're just not seeing all the powers and there are other high level goodies behind the veil that make the elements more balanced towards one another.

Based on other playtests, this is it. They've always been very up front about what isn't included in the playtest, and in Kineticist's case, that's the remaining two elements.


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Lanathar wrote:
DarkSpyro92 wrote:
Haven't played this yet, but everything Aether. Aether was my favorite element for the unlimited utility potential. Telekinetic Haul to carry everything heavy, Foe Throw to just toss people around, Telekinetic Invisibility, Force Hook, Disintegrate, all that good stuff. Just looking at the playtest currently, and having not played 2e before, it feels heavily stripped down. If I remember right, though, 2e follows more along the lines of 5e which has a lot in small packages.
Wasn’t Aether mostly telekinesis? Isn’t this now in the psychic? How did aether work from a planes perspective in 1E? Did it have it’s own one or was it the connections between? It seems like they are sticking close to the actual elemental planes and have decided on 6

I don't know what the psychic does. Like I said, I haven't played 2e yet, just looked at this playtest. Also, yes Aether is mostly telekinesis, but you could use that in multiple different ways effectively. Aether had many other abilities as well revolving around manipulating matter and just altering things with strands of Aetheric energy. Also, it was a connection to the Aetheric Plane, I believe. Not an elemental plane, per say, but a plane nonetheless.

Using Aether and Air, I could manipulate the battlefield heavily. I'm currently doing a build where I can put up walls and barriers, fly, magnetize enemies and throw them around, and soon I'll be able to move my allies as well without hurting them. A complete battlefield controller.

The thing about Aether is that out of all of the elements, it had some of the least damaging abilities, but in exchange it had some of the best utility which came in droves. You haven't lived until you've dropped a 1 ton statue on someone when they won't answer your interrogation questions.

Like QuidEst said, Aether at level 18 can get Aether Architect, which allows them to just build whatever they want out of Aether. It's incredibly useful when you have a large gap and you just build a bridge.


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I miss the geokineticist being able to make permanent alterations to the landscape by moving earth around. You never had fine control of it, but you could absolutely do things like "dig trenches" and "create rough walls" which makes you feel like a rockstar if the party is like "defending a city from a siege".

Sczarni

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
PossibleCabbage wrote:
I miss the geokineticist being able to make permanent alterations to the landscape by moving earth around. You never had fine control of it, but you could absolutely do things like "dig trenches" and "create rough walls" which makes you feel like a rockstar if the party is like "defending a city from a siege".

100% agreed. I miss that, too.


DarkSpyro92 wrote:
Lanathar wrote:
DarkSpyro92 wrote:
Haven't played this yet, but everything Aether. Aether was my favorite element for the unlimited utility potential. Telekinetic Haul to carry everything heavy, Foe Throw to just toss people around, Telekinetic Invisibility, Force Hook, Disintegrate, all that good stuff. Just looking at the playtest currently, and having not played 2e before, it feels heavily stripped down. If I remember right, though, 2e follows more along the lines of 5e which has a lot in small packages.
Wasn’t Aether mostly telekinesis? Isn’t this now in the psychic? How did aether work from a planes perspective in 1E? Did it have it’s own one or was it the connections between? It seems like they are sticking close to the actual elemental planes and have decided on 6

I don't know what the psychic does. Like I said, I haven't played 2e yet, just looked at this playtest. Also, yes Aether is mostly telekinesis, but you could use that in multiple different ways effectively. Aether had many other abilities as well revolving around manipulating matter and just altering things with strands of Aetheric energy. Also, it was a connection to the Aetheric Plane, I believe. Not an elemental plane, per say, but a plane nonetheless.

Using Aether and Air, I could manipulate the battlefield heavily. I'm currently doing a build where I can put up walls and barriers, fly, magnetize enemies and throw them around, and soon I'll be able to move my allies as well without hurting them. A complete battlefield controller.

The thing about Aether is that out of all of the elements, it had some of the least damaging abilities, but in exchange it had some of the best utility which came in droves. You haven't lived until you've dropped a 1 ton statue on someone when they won't answer your interrogation questions.

Like QuidEst said, Aether at level 18 can get Aether Architect, which allows them to just build whatever they want out of Aether. It's incredibly useful when you have a large gap and you...

Aether was ethereal plane with other elements. Its effectively just pure force.

And yeah aether kineticist is completely different from psychic.


PossibleCabbage wrote:
I miss the geokineticist being able to make permanent alterations to the landscape by moving earth around. You never had fine control of it, but you could absolutely do things like "dig trenches" and "create rough walls" which makes you feel like a rockstar if the party is like "defending a city from a siege".

I see what you did there.

I'm not sure if I exactly miss this from 1E, but the first edition kineticist had a feat they could take that allowed them to replicate spell effects with their abilities. I think that'd be useful for the 2E kineticist. At minimum it'd help cut down on their page count.
On the other hand it seems like the intent is for kineticist abilities to hit a different balance point from spells, and IIRC the SLA feat from 1E required burn to be used, which the kineticist no longer has.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Elemental defense, unique benefits for channeling your element was very thematic and cool (even if the balance was wonky).

Kinetic Awe. Neat feat that made it feel like there was something really tangible happening when you gathered power.

Mobile Gather was kinda neat in 1e but in 2e it feels like the kineticist could really use running reload.

More generally, passive elemental effects. There were some cool ones like chaokineticists not needing to breathe or being able to resist scrying.

The idea of being so suffused with your element it just passively alters your being in some way is neat, but at a glance nearly every kineticist ability is instead an active one.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I miss everything mentioned so far in this thread.

Particularly being able to do truly awesome displays of power at higher levels.

I miss Aether badly, but I know it's well outside the scope of what Kineticist2e is likely to be, but at the very least a powerful telekinetic option for each kind of element should be viable (Move a huge mass of earth, do earth shaping stuff, use winds with finesse and power enough to replicate a mage hand, move a huge amount of water, wood or metal or calm/control a massive wildfire).

Elemental Defense was rad.

A mobile gather, or more benefit from gathering would be grand.


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Kinetic cover, kinetic healer and slick. Water has something like them but much higher level.


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This is very specific but I rather miss the explosion infusion for pyro because I enjoyed playing an expy of ATLA's sparky sparky boom person.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
PossibleCabbage wrote:
I miss the geokineticist being able to make permanent alterations to the landscape by moving earth around. You never had fine control of it, but you could absolutely do things like "dig trenches" and "create rough walls" which makes you feel like a rockstar if the party is like "defending a city from a siege".

Adapt Terrain will let you build a crude fortress with a single pebble and an hour or two.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Ravingdork wrote:

It does seem odd that fire can burn down cities, but water can't reliably flood small fields.

Hopefully we're just not seeing all the powers and there are other high level goodies behind the veil that make the elements more balanced towards one another.

Adapt Terrain absolutely can flood a field especially if make a reservoir out of ice first.


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GrayDeath666 wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:

It does seem odd that fire can burn down cities, but water can't reliably flood small fields.

Hopefully we're just not seeing all the powers and there are other high level goodies behind the veil that make the elements more balanced towards one another.

Adapt Terrain absolutely can flood a field especially if make a reservoir out of ice first.

Spending a round per square takes three hours to flood a single acre of land. That's just embarrassing.

I also don't think you can really use it to build a fortress from what the ability says. It says it fills the square, rather than filling a cube. You can proliferate rocky terrain, but it doesn't really seem like you can Minecraft stone blocks into existence.


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Saying adapt terrain is a replacement for the element manipulation of PF1e kineticist is just off base.

Even just looking at basic geokinesis was 1 action to move 5-ft cube of earth per level 15 ft.


Pathfinder Pawns, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

For the fortress you need igneogenesis.

Just make walls and pillars and beams and such. All simple, solid shapes that can be combined into a larger structure.

There is nothing stopping you from stacking pillars on one another to make a tall palisade or sniper tower for example.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I don't recall much about the 1e Kineticist, but from playing the Kingmaker CRPG I kind of wish there was a feat to add traits to the blast so that Kineticists could make maneuvers with them.


The ability I miss most isn't even a core Kineticist ability, but from one of the archetypes.

Level 20 Capstone feat, prerequisite of Universal Gate and Gather Amalgamation, you have to have a full Amalgamation gathered to use it, and it'll Overflow all of your elements, but make it Capstone worthy:

Omnicide.


Omnicide is honestly quite fitting for universal, not sure how they missed it.

Speaking off that archetype, is it just me or is PF2 kineticist kind of just a worse elemental annihilator (non of the combat boosts and blasts that can't be used with strike abilities).


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Ravingdork wrote:

For the fortress you need igneogenesis.

Just make walls and pillars and beams and such. All simple, solid shapes that can be combined into a larger structure.

There is nothing stopping you from stacking pillars on one another to make a tall palisade or sniper tower for example.

You can only have one igneogenesis active. You're the third person, including me, I've seen post this false hope somewhere.

Quote:
You can create a permanent stone object, either sculpting stone pulled directly from your inner gate or manipulating earth and stone around you. The object must be relatively simple in shape and can’t include any intricate parts, moving pieces, or fine details. It must fit within one 5-foot cube that’s adjacent to you, and you can make the object large enough to occupy the square. If you create the object underneath you or another willing creature, you cause the target to rise into the air; you can’t create it under an unwilling creature. The object lasts until you use Igneogenesis again, at which point the earth gently returns to its original shape if you transformed the environment or returns to the Plane of Earth if you pulled it from your inner gate.

You can still use it for cover, to force large/huge creatures to squeeze by it, or to block of a 5' corridor.


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Xenocrat wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:

For the fortress you need igneogenesis.

Just make walls and pillars and beams and such. All simple, solid shapes that can be combined into a larger structure.

There is nothing stopping you from stacking pillars on one another to make a tall palisade or sniper tower for example.

You can only have one igneogenesis active. You're the third person, including me, I've seen post this false hope somewhere.

Quote:
You can create a permanent stone object, either sculpting stone pulled directly from your inner gate or manipulating earth and stone around you. The object must be relatively simple in shape and can’t include any intricate parts, moving pieces, or fine details. It must fit within one 5-foot cube that’s adjacent to you, and you can make the object large enough to occupy the square. If you create the object underneath you or another willing creature, you cause the target to rise into the air; you can’t create it under an unwilling creature. The object lasts until you use Igneogenesis again, at which point the earth gently returns to its original shape if you transformed the environment or returns to the Plane of Earth if you pulled it from your inner gate.
You can still use it for cover, to force large/huge creatures to squeeze by it, or to block of a 5' corridor.

Well, yeah, that sucks.

Man, they didn't just bring the nerf hammer. They brought the whole nerf planet down on this class.


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The narrative power of the 1e Kineticist probably was a bit much. But they need to give back enough of the "I can move rocks around" stuff to make you feel like you're good at controlling your element.

Like "I make boats go faster" isn't really a thing that makes the Hydro/Aerokineticist overpowered, but it's a thing that makes you feel cool when you do it.

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