paizo.com Recent Posts in I really wish the Kineticist was not so squishy.paizo.com Recent Posts in I really wish the Kineticist was not so squishy.2022-08-09T20:59:15Z2022-08-09T20:59:15ZRe: Forums: Kineticist Class: I really wish the Kineticist was not so squishy.aobst128https://paizo.com/threads/rzs43nuw?I-really-wish-the-Kineticist-was-not-so-squishy#492022-08-10T05:34:48Z2022-08-10T05:34:48Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">PossibleCabbage wrote:</div><blockquote><p> It's also likely that when they make a class have a non Str/Dex ability score as their key attribute which still needs Str/Dex that they intentionally leave off the thing that the key attribute contributes to the class. Like I clearly remember building Investigators to playtest that left Int at 12 since Wis was better for you since so much of your stuff keyed on perception.</p>
<p>Has anybody built a 12 Con Kineticist? I might have to test that one. </blockquote><p>I could see that working if there was more of a focus on it's attacks. All the good abilities that improve your basic blasts are higher level. You could pick just utility and aura abilities and be ok I guess but you would be stuck with chain blast and maelstrom blast later on.PossibleCabbage wrote:It's also likely that when they make a class have a non Str/Dex ability score as their key attribute which still needs Str/Dex that they intentionally leave off the thing that the key attribute contributes to the class. Like I clearly remember building Investigators to playtest that left Int at 12 since Wis was better for you since so much of your stuff keyed on perception.
Has anybody built a 12 Con Kineticist? I might have to test that one.
I could see that working...aobst1282022-08-10T05:34:48ZRe: Forums: Kineticist Class: I really wish the Kineticist was not so squishy.PossibleCabbagehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43nuw?I-really-wish-the-Kineticist-was-not-so-squishy#482022-08-10T05:23:39Z2022-08-10T05:23:39Z<p>It's also likely that when they make a class have a non Str/Dex ability score as their key attribute which still needs Str/Dex that they intentionally leave off the thing that the key attribute contributes to the class. Like I clearly remember building Investigators to playtest that left Int at 12 since Wis was better for you since so much of your stuff keyed on perception.</p>
<p>Has anybody built a 12 Con Kineticist? I might have to test that one.</p>It's also likely that when they make a class have a non Str/Dex ability score as their key attribute which still needs Str/Dex that they intentionally leave off the thing that the key attribute contributes to the class. Like I clearly remember building Investigators to playtest that left Int at 12 since Wis was better for you since so much of your stuff keyed on perception.
Has anybody built a 12 Con Kineticist? I might have to test that one.PossibleCabbage2022-08-10T05:23:39ZRe: Forums: Kineticist Class: I really wish the Kineticist was not so squishy.Temperanshttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43nuw?I-really-wish-the-Kineticist-was-not-so-squishy#472022-08-10T05:19:44Z2022-08-10T05:19:44Z<p>I wouldn't say a little under budgeted but a lot, but that is more debatable since some people really seem to like underpowered abilities.</p>I wouldn't say a little under budgeted but a lot, but that is more debatable since some people really seem to like underpowered abilities.Temperans2022-08-10T05:19:44ZRe: Forums: Kineticist Class: I really wish the Kineticist was not so squishy.AnimatedPaperhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43nuw?I-really-wish-the-Kineticist-was-not-so-squishy#462022-08-10T05:16:47Z2022-08-10T05:16:47Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Martialmasters wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
I will not operate under this assumption unless informed by a dev. As it's more an exception to the rule. </blockquote><p>Not really. Most playtest classes are slightly under budgeted, probably so they specifically have room for small additions like that.
<p>I can’t think of a class that didn’t get that level of boost. Even the witch got focus cantrips in addition to a level 1 focus spell.</p>Martialmasters wrote:I will not operate under this assumption unless informed by a dev. As it's more an exception to the rule.
Not really. Most playtest classes are slightly under budgeted, probably so they specifically have room for small additions like that. I can’t think of a class that didn’t get that level of boost. Even the witch got focus cantrips in addition to a level 1 focus spell.AnimatedPaper2022-08-10T05:16:47ZRe: Forums: Kineticist Class: I really wish the Kineticist was not so squishy.Temperanshttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43nuw?I-really-wish-the-Kineticist-was-not-so-squishy#452022-08-10T05:16:35Z2022-08-10T05:08:24Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Lightning Raven wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Temperans wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Restricting armor usage to only 3 elements is quite literally the worst.</p>
<p>Just because you cannot imagine a fire kineticist in medium armor does not mean it should not be an option. </blockquote><p>My point is that going with heavier armor seems like a good direction for an opt-in playstyle instead of just giving the class better armor proficiency all around and basically making every Kineticist that wants good armor bonuses to inevitably go with heavier armor, which may not fit their intended theme and flavor.
<p>Having heavier armor as opt in gives players the best of both worlds. Also, if you wanted to use fire and wear heavy armor, you could simple choose Dual or Universal Gate, no big deal. </blockquote><p>Making heavy armor and shields maybe.
<p>But they really should have medium armor without having to spend feats.</p>Lightning Raven wrote:Temperans wrote:Restricting armor usage to only 3 elements is quite literally the worst.
Just because you cannot imagine a fire kineticist in medium armor does not mean it should not be an option.
My point is that going with heavier armor seems like a good direction for an opt-in playstyle instead of just giving the class better armor proficiency all around and basically making every Kineticist that wants good armor bonuses to inevitably go with heavier armor, which...Temperans2022-08-10T05:08:24ZRe: Forums: Kineticist Class: I really wish the Kineticist was not so squishy.Lightning Ravenhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43nuw?I-really-wish-the-Kineticist-was-not-so-squishy#442022-08-09T23:44:59Z2022-08-09T23:44:59Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Temperans wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Restricting armor usage to only 3 elements is quite literally the worst.</p>
<p>Just because you cannot imagine a fire kineticist in medium armor does not mean it should not be an option. </blockquote><p>My point is that going with heavier armor seems like a good direction for an opt-in playstyle instead of just giving the class better armor proficiency all around and basically making every Kineticist that wants good armor bonuses to inevitably go with heavier armor, which may not fit their intended theme and flavor.
<p>Having heavier armor as opt in gives players the best of both worlds. Also, if you wanted to use fire and wear heavy armor, you could simple choose Dual or Universal Gate, no big deal.</p>Temperans wrote:Restricting armor usage to only 3 elements is quite literally the worst.
Just because you cannot imagine a fire kineticist in medium armor does not mean it should not be an option.
My point is that going with heavier armor seems like a good direction for an opt-in playstyle instead of just giving the class better armor proficiency all around and basically making every Kineticist that wants good armor bonuses to inevitably go with heavier armor, which may not fit their...Lightning Raven2022-08-09T23:44:59ZRe: Forums: Kineticist Class: I really wish the Kineticist was not so squishy.Ryuujin-samahttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43nuw?I-really-wish-the-Kineticist-was-not-so-squishy#432022-08-09T22:31:51Z2022-08-09T22:31:51Z<p>Gathered Element "constant" benefit ideas. As these ideas might be a bit powerful for free they might require a feat at like 6th or 8th level.</p>
<p>Air: While you have Air gathered you are constantly benefiting from a Circumstance bonus to Speed (possibly scaling 5ft every 5 or so levels?), and you have Cover vs ranged attacks. If you have the Fair Winds Impulse you are constantly under its effect and it doesn't count against your one aura at a time, the status bonus from Fair Winds Impulse for yourself is doubled to +10 ft, and your Cover against ranged attacks improves to Greater Cover vs ranged attacks.</p>
<p>Earth: While you have Earth gathered you are constantly under the effect of Stone Shield with the Raise a Shield action you benefit from Stone Shield constantly while you have Earth gathered. If you use the Shield Block reaction you do not lose your gathered Earth and your Stone Shield reforms at the end of that creature's turn. IF you have taken the Stone Shield Impulse your Stone Shield from gathering Earth increases its Hardness as normal for Stone Shield and you gain a free Reaction at the start of your turn that can only be used for Stone Shield's Shield Block reaction.</p>
<p>Fire: While you have Fire gathered you have an aura of Flame, this aura is normally 10ft but is increased by Shape Aura like Kinetic Auras and does not count against your single Kinetic Aura active at a time. Normally this aura deals 1d6 fire damage increasing by 1d6 fire damage every 5 levels. A creature takes this damage when it first enters your aura in a turn, or when it starts its turn in the aura. If you have the Desert Shimmer Impulse the two auras merge, still not counting against your limit of one Kinetic Aura at a time. The new Aura of Shimmering Flame now deals 1d6+1 Fire damage as of level 4, scaling by 1d6+1 every 3 levels. If you also have Shape Aura you can now allow your allies to ignore Concealment from your Aura of Shimmering Flame, in addition to ignoring the condition yourself, and using Shape Aura to not deal damage to your allies does not remove concealment from them. (Just in case using Shape Aura to not deal damage to an ally in Desert Shimmer also prevents them from being concealed by the aura.)</p>
<p>Water: While you have Water gathered you have an aura of difficult terrain for your enemies around you, this aura is normally 10ft but is increased by Shape Aura like Kinetic Auras and does not count against your single Kinetic Aura active at a time. If you have Sea Glass Guardian it merges with your slowing water aura, constantly active while you have Water gathered and not counting against your one Kinetic Aura active at a time. The combined aura now counts as greater difficult terrain for enemies. In addition you gain the Attack of Opportunity reaction and this reaction can be used as a melee Water Blast against any triggering target within your aura as your Sea Glass Guardian lashes out for you.</p>Gathered Element "constant" benefit ideas. As these ideas might be a bit powerful for free they might require a feat at like 6th or 8th level.
Air: While you have Air gathered you are constantly benefiting from a Circumstance bonus to Speed (possibly scaling 5ft every 5 or so levels?), and you have Cover vs ranged attacks. If you have the Fair Winds Impulse you are constantly under its effect and it doesn't count against your one aura at a time, the status bonus from Fair Winds Impulse for...Ryuujin-sama2022-08-09T22:31:51ZRe: Forums: Kineticist Class: I really wish the Kineticist was not so squishy.PossibleCabbagehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43nuw?I-really-wish-the-Kineticist-was-not-so-squishy#422022-08-09T22:11:38Z2022-08-09T22:11:38Z<p>So if I'm a level 19 geokineticist build for maximum defense ideally I'll start combat with Stone Skin active and an element gathered.
<br />
Then Round 1 activate "Rebirth in Living Stone", use the quickened action to gather again, then activate stone shield. </p>
<p>Round 2 is: Re-gather in case I blocked (free from Rebirth in Living Stone), activate Stone Shield, then I have two actions left to hurt somebody or move maybe.</p>
<p>I am very sturdy at this point, but keeping my defenses up is occupying all of my resources.</p>So if I'm a level 19 geokineticist build for maximum defense ideally I'll start combat with Stone Skin active and an element gathered.
Then Round 1 activate "Rebirth in Living Stone", use the quickened action to gather again, then activate stone shield.
Round 2 is: Re-gather in case I blocked (free from Rebirth in Living Stone), activate Stone Shield, then I have two actions left to hurt somebody or move maybe.
I am very sturdy at this point, but keeping my defenses up is occupying all of...PossibleCabbage2022-08-09T22:11:38ZRe: Forums: Kineticist Class: I really wish the Kineticist was not so squishy.Guntermenchhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43nuw?I-really-wish-the-Kineticist-was-not-so-squishy#412022-08-09T22:01:32Z2022-08-09T21:59:35Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Martialmasters wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Getting rewarded only by gathering an element basically only rewards overflow character builds. Dunno if I like that. Or the other kineticists just get kinda cheesy and start dropping elements like a weapon. It should support both build options imo.</p>
<p>But against the idea of tying benefits to gather element's though </blockquote><p>It also benefits dual and universal blasters that use cycle elements a lot.
<p>Plus these effects are generally half level plus Constitution modifier. So they're not completely useless if you dump Constitution they're just not as good.</p>Martialmasters wrote:Getting rewarded only by gathering an element basically only rewards overflow character builds. Dunno if I like that. Or the other kineticists just get kinda cheesy and start dropping elements like a weapon. It should support both build options imo.
But against the idea of tying benefits to gather element's though
It also benefits dual and universal blasters that use cycle elements a lot. Plus these effects are generally half level plus Constitution modifier. So they're...Guntermench2022-08-09T21:59:35ZRe: Forums: Kineticist Class: I really wish the Kineticist was not so squishy.manbearscientisthttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43nuw?I-really-wish-the-Kineticist-was-not-so-squishy#402022-08-09T21:58:11Z2022-08-09T21:58:11Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Ryuujin-sama wrote:</div><blockquote> I feel like Status bonus to Speed for Air is wasted. So many Air abilities/auras already provide a Status bonus to Speed. </blockquote><p>This is assuming a rewrite of the class where there wouldn't be conflict and the 'Gather Elements' ability has a function beyond switching elements or recovering from Overflow.
<p>If you wanted 1E crossover however you could alternatively give air concealment (with the standard 'cannot hide' rider).</p>Ryuujin-sama wrote:I feel like Status bonus to Speed for Air is wasted. So many Air abilities/auras already provide a Status bonus to Speed.
This is assuming a rewrite of the class where there wouldn't be conflict and the 'Gather Elements' ability has a function beyond switching elements or recovering from Overflow. If you wanted 1E crossover however you could alternatively give air concealment (with the standard 'cannot hide' rider).manbearscientist2022-08-09T21:58:11ZRe: Forums: Kineticist Class: I really wish the Kineticist was not so squishy.PossibleCabbagehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43nuw?I-really-wish-the-Kineticist-was-not-so-squishy#392022-08-09T21:57:07Z2022-08-09T21:57:07Z<p>I think the important thing you want to avoid is having to spend a bunch of actions once combat starts in order to turn your defenses on. Like the PF1 approach was just "they're on all day once you activate them" works great but if they don't want to do that something that is triggered by something else you're already going to be doing and is thematic is a good approach.</p>
<p>Like "Stone Shield and block constantly, just repairing your shield by regathering" is reasonably sturdy, but this is going to eat all your actions- you're just going to make regular blasts and not move so most of your other feats are irrelevant.</p>I think the important thing you want to avoid is having to spend a bunch of actions once combat starts in order to turn your defenses on. Like the PF1 approach was just "they're on all day once you activate them" works great but if they don't want to do that something that is triggered by something else you're already going to be doing and is thematic is a good approach.
Like "Stone Shield and block constantly, just repairing your shield by regathering" is reasonably sturdy, but this is...PossibleCabbage2022-08-09T21:57:07ZRe: Forums: Kineticist Class: I really wish the Kineticist was not so squishy.Martialmastershttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43nuw?I-really-wish-the-Kineticist-was-not-so-squishy#382022-08-09T21:57:01Z2022-08-09T21:57:01Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Ryuujin-sama wrote:</div><blockquote> Well if the "reward" is constant the entire time you have that element gathered then it doesn't reward overflow character builds anymore than say an Elemental Blast focused character. </blockquote><p>Almost like it needs something similar to panache for the concept. Or Magus cascade stance.Ryuujin-sama wrote:Well if the "reward" is constant the entire time you have that element gathered then it doesn't reward overflow character builds anymore than say an Elemental Blast focused character.
Almost like it needs something similar to panache for the concept. Or Magus cascade stance.Martialmasters2022-08-09T21:57:01ZRe: Forums: Kineticist Class: I really wish the Kineticist was not so squishy.Ryuujin-samahttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43nuw?I-really-wish-the-Kineticist-was-not-so-squishy#372022-08-09T21:54:54Z2022-08-09T21:54:54Z<p>Well if the "reward" is constant the entire time you have that element gathered then it doesn't reward overflow character builds anymore than say an Elemental Blast focused character.</p>Well if the "reward" is constant the entire time you have that element gathered then it doesn't reward overflow character builds anymore than say an Elemental Blast focused character.Ryuujin-sama2022-08-09T21:54:54ZRe: Forums: Kineticist Class: I really wish the Kineticist was not so squishy.Martialmastershttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43nuw?I-really-wish-the-Kineticist-was-not-so-squishy#362022-08-09T21:53:50Z2022-08-09T21:53:50Z<p>Getting rewarded only by gathering an element basically only rewards overflow character builds. Dunno if I like that. Or the other kineticists just get kinda cheesy and start dropping elements like a weapon. It should support both build options imo.</p>
<p>But against the idea of tying benefits to gather element's though</p>Getting rewarded only by gathering an element basically only rewards overflow character builds. Dunno if I like that. Or the other kineticists just get kinda cheesy and start dropping elements like a weapon. It should support both build options imo.
But against the idea of tying benefits to gather element's thoughMartialmasters2022-08-09T21:53:50ZRe: Forums: Kineticist Class: I really wish the Kineticist was not so squishy.Ryuujin-samahttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43nuw?I-really-wish-the-Kineticist-was-not-so-squishy#352022-08-09T21:53:52Z2022-08-09T21:53:13Z<p>I feel like Status bonus to Speed for Air is wasted. So many Air abilities/auras already provide a Status bonus to Speed.</p>I feel like Status bonus to Speed for Air is wasted. So many Air abilities/auras already provide a Status bonus to Speed.Ryuujin-sama2022-08-09T21:53:13ZRe: Forums: Kineticist Class: I really wish the Kineticist was not so squishy.PossibleCabbagehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43nuw?I-really-wish-the-Kineticist-was-not-so-squishy#342022-08-10T13:10:08Z2022-08-09T21:50:22Z<p>Defensive bonuses that are triggered by gathering an element or active passively while an element is gathered is absolutely something I will spend feats on. Or even something analogous to Raging Vigor or Vivacious Bravado.</p>
<p>Like I am considering "gather->stone shield->ranged blast" as a normal combat loop, which isn't especially exciting.</p>Defensive bonuses that are triggered by gathering an element or active passively while an element is gathered is absolutely something I will spend feats on. Or even something analogous to Raging Vigor or Vivacious Bravado.
Like I am considering "gather->stone shield->ranged blast" as a normal combat loop, which isn't especially exciting.PossibleCabbage2022-08-09T21:50:22ZRe: Forums: Kineticist Class: I really wish the Kineticist was not so squishy.Temperanshttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43nuw?I-really-wish-the-Kineticist-was-not-so-squishy#332022-08-09T21:49:31Z2022-08-09T21:49:31Z<p>Restricting armor usage to only 3 elements is quite literally the worst.</p>
<p>Just because you cannot imagine a fire kineticist in medium armor does not mean it should not be an option.</p>Restricting armor usage to only 3 elements is quite literally the worst.
Just because you cannot imagine a fire kineticist in medium armor does not mean it should not be an option.Temperans2022-08-09T21:49:31ZRe: Forums: Kineticist Class: I really wish the Kineticist was not so squishy.manbearscientisthttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43nuw?I-really-wish-the-Kineticist-was-not-so-squishy#322022-08-09T21:47:24Z2022-08-09T21:47:24Z<p>I would like to see two things. </p>
<p>First, a class archetype (Kinetic Knight) that prevented ranged elemental blasts (and maybe impulses) in exchange for medium/heavy armor proficiency. If possible, I'd like for such a class to also count as having a hand free for impulses if they were wielding an elemental weapon in one hand and a shield in the other. </p>
<p>Second, baseline benefits to each element when that element is gathered. IE:</p>
<p><li> Air - Status bonus to Speed + Message spell
<br />
<li> Earth - Stone Shield
<br />
<li> Fire - Damage to next enemy that touches you in melee
<br />
<li> Water - Swim Speed + Status Bonus to AC</p>I would like to see two things.
First, a class archetype (Kinetic Knight) that prevented ranged elemental blasts (and maybe impulses) in exchange for medium/heavy armor proficiency. If possible, I'd like for such a class to also count as having a hand free for impulses if they were wielding an elemental weapon in one hand and a shield in the other.
Second, baseline benefits to each element when that element is gathered. IE:
Air - Status bonus to Speed + Message spell
Earth - Stone
...manbearscientist2022-08-09T21:47:24ZRe: Forums: Kineticist Class: I really wish the Kineticist was not so squishy.Martialmastershttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43nuw?I-really-wish-the-Kineticist-was-not-so-squishy#312022-08-09T21:45:29Z2022-08-09T21:45:29Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">AnonMD wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Martialmasters wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Pronate11 wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Martialmasters wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
<p>I will not operate under this assumption unless informed by a dev. As it's more an exception to the rule. </blockquote>I will point out, medium armor is almost certainly less disrupted than using con for Ac, which is what you are suggesting. So, what should Paizo remove to add con for AC? </blockquote><p>You lose Dex to ac. It's a swap. Not a combine.
<p>I'm not against medium armor as an option btw. I just don't know where they'd pull from if they decided that was needed. </blockquote><p>Where from this concept of a budget that you keep referring to would they pull to apply your 'Con to X Stat' idea?
<p>Furthermore, I think even having a concept of a budget on what a kineticist can or can't do is a bad idea this early into the playtest. We shouldn't set hard barriers on what the class can and can't be based on what is clearly in need of fine tuning. </blockquote><p>Everything in this game has a budget. Everything. Even damage die and weapon traits.
<p>And technically even the act of suggesting fixes or changes is not what good feedback is. It's merely stating what you are trying to do and how the class makes you feel when you try to do it. According to analogues I've read going over the subject of game feedback at least. Granted this was mostly for fighting games.</p>AnonMD wrote:Martialmasters wrote: Pronate11 wrote: Martialmasters wrote:I will not operate under this assumption unless informed by a dev. As it's more an exception to the rule.
I will point out, medium armor is almost certainly less disrupted than using con for Ac, which is what you are suggesting. So, what should Paizo remove to add con for AC? You lose Dex to ac. It's a swap. Not a combine. I'm not against medium armor as an option btw. I just don't know where they'd pull from if they...Martialmasters2022-08-09T21:45:29ZRe: Forums: Kineticist Class: I really wish the Kineticist was not so squishy.Pronate11https://paizo.com/threads/rzs43nuw?I-really-wish-the-Kineticist-was-not-so-squishy#302022-08-09T21:41:56Z2022-08-09T21:41:56Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Invictus Fatum wrote:</div><blockquote><p> I commented in another thread an alternative idea over AC and to make use of that CON attribute. </p>
<p>How about renewing Temporary HP every time you gather an element? Something like your CON modifier times half your level (rounded up). Would also make the class feel tougher and more sturdy </blockquote><p>That could work, and would make gather element feel less like a action tax. its basically this 8th level feat https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=153 with the benefit gather element currently has.Invictus Fatum wrote:I commented in another thread an alternative idea over AC and to make use of that CON attribute.
How about renewing Temporary HP every time you gather an element? Something like your CON modifier times half your level (rounded up). Would also make the class feel tougher and more sturdy
That could work, and would make gather element feel less like a action tax. its basically this 8th level feat https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=153 with the benefit gather element...Pronate112022-08-09T21:41:56ZRe: Forums: Kineticist Class: I really wish the Kineticist was not so squishy.Guntermenchhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43nuw?I-really-wish-the-Kineticist-was-not-so-squishy#292022-08-09T21:46:44Z2022-08-09T21:39:07Z<p>Is there a feat to get temp HP when you gather an element? That seems like something that could help with this and also would fit other feats at...I think level 8 generally.</p>Is there a feat to get temp HP when you gather an element? That seems like something that could help with this and also would fit other feats at...I think level 8 generally.Guntermench2022-08-09T21:39:07ZRe: Forums: Kineticist Class: I really wish the Kineticist was not so squishy.Invictus Fatumhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43nuw?I-really-wish-the-Kineticist-was-not-so-squishy#282022-08-09T21:37:53Z2022-08-09T21:37:53Z<p>I commented in another thread an alternative idea over AC and to make use of that CON attribute. </p>
<p>How about renewing Temporary HP every time you gather an element? Something like your CON modifier times half your level (rounded up). Would also make the class feel tougher and more sturdy</p>I commented in another thread an alternative idea over AC and to make use of that CON attribute.
How about renewing Temporary HP every time you gather an element? Something like your CON modifier times half your level (rounded up). Would also make the class feel tougher and more sturdyInvictus Fatum2022-08-09T21:37:53ZRe: Forums: Kineticist Class: I really wish the Kineticist was not so squishy.PossibleCabbagehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43nuw?I-really-wish-the-Kineticist-was-not-so-squishy#272022-08-10T21:12:45Z2022-08-09T21:37:34Z<p>IMO, the Kineticist needs to be be able to be sturdier than "gets 5+runes bonus to AC from stat+item bonus" would let it be since that's just the normal thing non-heavy armor wearers have. Since even if you get that, you're still pretty squishy, whether you're Str-based or Dex-based, as it's proficiencies that make you better or worse at AC and yours are not great.</p>
<p>Like it's not hard to maximize AC for all 20 levels with a dex build or a str build. You're still not someone who is going to be wholly comfortable in melee range. Con to AC is sort of a non sequitur here, since they're never going to let people add two different stats to something in PF2 (like the PF1 monk did with Wis and Dex).</p>IMO, the Kineticist needs to be be able to be sturdier than "gets 5+runes bonus to AC from stat+item bonus" would let it be since that's just the normal thing non-heavy armor wearers have. Since even if you get that, you're still pretty squishy, whether you're Str-based or Dex-based, as it's proficiencies that make you better or worse at AC and yours are not great.
Like it's not hard to maximize AC for all 20 levels with a dex build or a str build. You're still not someone who is going to be...PossibleCabbage2022-08-09T21:37:34ZRe: Forums: Kineticist Class: I really wish the Kineticist was not so squishy.Lightning Ravenhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43nuw?I-really-wish-the-Kineticist-was-not-so-squishy#262022-08-09T21:44:09Z2022-08-09T21:35:56Z<p>Instead of giving it more armor, why not go in the other direction and design it like the Monks?</p>
<p>Leave the heavily armored playstyle for specific builds (Metal and Earth, maybe even with Wood) and give the class better Unarmored Proficiency or give it special elemental armors based on their class choices. For example, enhancing whatever armor they wear with their elements, thus allowing the change from Dex to Con for their armor (while elements that encourage Dex-playstyles gained another benefit).</p>
<p>It seems like light/unarmored defense is the way to go in terms of flavor.</p>
<p>Elements already look like Stances (although you have more incentive to switch, unlike Monks), I don't think borrowing more from them would be bad for the Kineticist.</p>Instead of giving it more armor, why not go in the other direction and design it like the Monks?
Leave the heavily armored playstyle for specific builds (Metal and Earth, maybe even with Wood) and give the class better Unarmored Proficiency or give it special elemental armors based on their class choices. For example, enhancing whatever armor they wear with their elements, thus allowing the change from Dex to Con for their armor (while elements that encourage Dex-playstyles gained another...Lightning Raven2022-08-09T21:35:56ZRe: Forums: Kineticist Class: I really wish the Kineticist was not so squishy.Pronate11https://paizo.com/threads/rzs43nuw?I-really-wish-the-Kineticist-was-not-so-squishy#252022-08-10T05:18:29Z2022-08-09T21:31:59Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Martialmasters wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Pronate11 wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Martialmasters wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
<p>I will not operate under this assumption unless informed by a dev. As it's more an exception to the rule. </blockquote>I will point out, medium armor is almost certainly less disrupted than using con for Ac, which is what you are suggesting. So, what should Paizo remove to add con for AC? </blockquote><p>You lose Dex to ac. It's a swap. Not a combine.
<p>I'm not against medium armor as an option btw. I just don't know where they'd pull from if they decided that was needed. </blockquote><p>You realize that medium armor is also a swap, not a combine? you get the same AC as light armor, but you swap dex for str. and again, if they do decide that con to ac is what they need, where should they pull from? If medium armor is so costly, surely only needing dex for reflex saves, something only available to heavy armor would also have a similar cost.Martialmasters wrote:Pronate11 wrote: Martialmasters wrote:I will not operate under this assumption unless informed by a dev. As it's more an exception to the rule.
I will point out, medium armor is almost certainly less disrupted than using con for Ac, which is what you are suggesting. So, what should Paizo remove to add con for AC? You lose Dex to ac. It's a swap. Not a combine. I'm not against medium armor as an option btw. I just don't know where they'd pull from if they decided that was...Pronate112022-08-09T21:31:59Z