Kingmaker PF2


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion


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Any word on when this will be available for retail sale? I want to get a copy so my son can GM it.

Saint Bernard


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Saint Bernard wrote:

Any word on when this will be available for retail sale? I want to get a copy so my son can GM it.

Saint Bernard

I believe they said October at Gen Con


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Saint Bernard wrote:

Any word on when this will be available for retail sale? I want to get a copy so my son can GM it.

Saint Bernard

Backers for the Games on Tabletop fundraiser will be getting their copies first at the end on September, and then Paizo and other retailers will have Kingmaker 2E available for purchase sometime in late October.

The recently announced Kingmaker 2E Foundry module will not come out in October of this year, but will likely come out either Q1 or Q2 of 2023.


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So, quick question as I know little about Kingmaker…is it good?


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Sagian wrote:
So, quick question as I know little about Kingmaker…is it good?

It is by far the most recognizable and famous Adventure Path Paizo has ever made. To the point where Owlcat Games made a computer RPG based on it, and it sold gangbusters.

So yeah, it's pretty good!


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Ezekieru wrote:
Sagian wrote:
So, quick question as I know little about Kingmaker…is it good?

It is by far the most recognizable and famous Adventure Path Paizo has ever made. To the point where Owlcat Games made a computer RPG based on it, and it sold gangbusters.

So yeah, it's pretty good!

Let's not forget it had an entire Kickstarter made to update and port it over to Second Edition rules; with many extra bits and bobs. And, they made a Starfinder analog due to how immensely popular it was.


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Thanks for that feedback. Given that the population at hand thinks it’s good. Is it possible to describe why it’s good without spoilers? What makes it different than others? Writing? The story? Some internal game element?


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Sagian wrote:

Thanks for that feedback. Given that the population at hand thinks it’s good. Is it possible to describe why it’s good without spoilers? What makes it different than others? Writing? The story? Some internal game element?

It really neatly hits the fantasy of an older vision of the genre - go out into the wilderness, found a kingdom, build castles, deal with monsters, curses, and rival nations. It’s hard to beat something that does the classics well, as Abomination Vaults’ success similarly shows.

More than any other AP, it gives groups an excuse to talk about how their run turned out. Every group that plays through Jade Regent puts Ameiko on the throne, but each Kingmaker kingdom turns out unique to the table that created it.


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Keftiu said it about as well as you can say it. It's a classic trope done well.


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To expand a little on that last point: it’s one of the few APs that supports any type of hero, which adds a lot to that customization. Your kingdom is as likely to be a refuge for the oppressed as it is to be a bastion of Asmodean tyranny. The only thing you need your PC to be is “somewhat interested in building a kingdom” and “capable of working with the party.” Compared to the usual heroic fare or the campaigns with a significantly tighter premise, you get a lot of variability.

While it’s not the same as a full kingdom, I do wonder if the customizable Harrow Court in Stolen Fates will make at all a simpler splash. I know people had higher hopes for the castle you get in Age of Ashes than what it turned out to be.


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I am pretty sure that they have to send it out to the backers before they sell it more generally, so I am sure one of us will post when it is on its way or they have it. By that point, there should be a published general release date.


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Sagian wrote:
So, quick question as I know little about Kingmaker…is it good?

No, it's terrible. In fact you should probably give me your eventual copy of it, just to be safe; I shall selflessly make sure you never have to look at it. :P

(October can't come fast enough.)

keftiu wrote:
While it’s not the same as a full kingdom, I do wonder if the customizable Harrow Court in Stolen Fates will make at all a simpler splash. I know people had higher hopes for the castle you get in Age of Ashes than what it turned out to be.

That was a real disappointment. The system was so minor that my party interacted with it for one downtime cycle before realizing there wasn't any real reason to. We have at least two party members who are big base-building fans, myself included. I have higher hopes for the Harrow Court.


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Some of the main critiques of KM:

It has a hidden/surprise villain that, while discussed in GM-focused content from book 1 on, doesn't really show up to the heros until book 5. The computer game addressed/updated this (sometimes too heavy-handed in my opinion) and we expect some/all of those changes to be in the 2e version.

Broken economy: the 1e version (whether you used the KM rules or the Ultimate Campaign updated version) had a lot of highly exploitable/unbalanced buildings for your kingdom. (Mainly magic item based). And in general the rules were a little too min-max focused in terms of difficulty of checks/benefits. Most groups I've talked to, and the group I ran for, found their own balance point w/o a lot of work, but it does require more active GM adjustment/troubleshooting than some APs, and unlike many APs this rule system stays relevant for the entire AP (which is a good thing).

Some of the other nation/surrounding nation diplomacy is a bit weaker/'out of scope' than some players who are drawn towards a kingdom building adventure want. It makes sense that it was left out -- there's too many possibilities to spend word-count/page count on; but is another place GMs may have to do significantly more homework than usual for an AP.

But the pay off is great -- its a very well done 'sandbox' adventure. The ability to weave character stories, kingdom stories, and the AP main plot together is very, very well done. It also really needs to 'breath' its not a railroad, and you don't want it to be. It really wants to be a "campaign setting" more than an adventure path. Sure you can (and I did more than I can to admit) run it like an AP at my normal progress rate, but its the AP that a group could run for a decade if you want. The general lack of a 'timer' in game (something that the computer games adds way too much of) -- they type of story that could support multiple-generations of heroes if your group wants it to, etc. In some ways its more of a campaign setting masquerading as an adventure path.

Scarab Sages

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Ezekieru wrote:
The recently announced Kingmaker 2E Foundry module will not come out in October of this year, but will likely come out either Q1 or Q2 of 2023.

Can you point to a source where you read this?


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
keftiu wrote:
To expand a little on that last point: it’s one of the few APs that supports any type of hero, which adds a lot to that customization. Your kingdom is as likely to be a refuge for the oppressed as it is to be a bastion of Asmodean tyranny. The only thing you need your PC to be is “somewhat interested in building a kingdom” and “capable of working with the party.” Compared to the usual heroic fare or the campaigns with a significantly tighter premise, you get a lot of variability.

Very much this.

I ran the original Kingmaker as a heroic campaign with your typical assortment of good-to-antihero spectrum of heroes. I'm going to be running the 2e version of Kingmaker for a different party as an evil campaign, with PCs about as evil as you can possibly get.

I don't expect to need to make any major adjustments to the story or villains to accommodate that.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Folks are spot on as regards the type of heroes that Kingmaker is for. The main thing to keep in mind is that it works best if the PCs are all strong allies of each other. As long as they are and they want to work together to build a nation that they all agree on how that nation should be built... alignments are kind of irrelevant. The plot works just as well with good PCs as it does with evil ones.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Reebo Kesh wrote:
Ezekieru wrote:
The recently announced Kingmaker 2E Foundry module will not come out in October of this year, but will likely come out either Q1 or Q2 of 2023.
Can you point to a source where you read this?

Announced at the "Enhance: Virtual Tabletop Play" stream that Paizo hosted at GenCon on Saturday. Reiterated by TMun (the Volunteer Project Manager for the PF2E system on Foundry) found HERE.


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Perpdepog wrote:
Sagian wrote:
So, quick question as I know little about Kingmaker…is it good?

No, it's terrible. In fact you should probably give me your eventual copy of it, just to be safe; I shall selflessly make sure you never have to look at it. :P

(October can't come fast enough.)

keftiu wrote:
While it’s not the same as a full kingdom, I do wonder if the customizable Harrow Court in Stolen Fates will make at all a simpler splash. I know people had higher hopes for the castle you get in Age of Ashes than what it turned out to be.
That was a real disappointment. The system was so minor that my party interacted with it for one downtime cycle before realizing there wasn't any real reason to. We have at least two party members who are big base-building fans, myself included. I have higher hopes for the Harrow Court.

Oh okay. Well, when I get my copy…(sense motive roll), hey now! Nice try, you.


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I want to thank all who posted here with their thoughts on Kingmaker! I can’t but be excited to play or run the adventure. Reminds me a lot of my home games so…so long ago. Back then we were just happy to have built a smithy or a wizards tower.

Again, thanks for the well and spoiler free reviews. May all your kingdoms reign forever.

Grand Lodge

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I want to add that James and others have said that the kingdom building was completely redone from the ground up. So much so that instead of the 1e like 4x4 grid the 2E version has it's own character sheet as well as an optional player facing GM screen called the kingdom management screen. Also just because the adventure is over doesn't mean the campaign is. There are lots of plots in the River Kingdoms and Brevoy(even a little in Numeria if you want) which all border the players kingdom that leave tons of room to keep a game in and around the stolen land to never end.

I.e.

  • Which side of the Brevoy civil war does your kingdom side with?
  • Depending on which side of the Brevoy civil war you are on affects how you interact with Mivon
  • Gralton and Galt are on your southern border are you a refuge for those affected by the constant rebellion or are you aligned with the nobels putting the pesants down.
  • What are your interactions with Daggermark like? Are they next after
    Spoiler:
    Pitax
  • Fort Inevitable is in the river kingdoms but pretty heavily violates the river freedoms. Does your kingdom care? If they do is it worth angering the Hellknights to deal with it
  • The stolen lands are covered with the ruins of over a thousand years of attempts at settlement. What happens when the descendants of those past attempts come claiming that they actually own/rule that land?


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Sagian wrote:

Thanks for that feedback. Given that the population at hand thinks it’s good. Is it possible to describe why it’s good without spoilers? What makes it different than others? Writing? The story? Some internal game element?

It's the quintessential sandbox adventure path. There's a big land. There are problems in that land. Go into that land, fix the problems, and overtime make your kingdom.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber

Do we know if this will be something that gets shipped with a Subscription or will I have to choose between physical and PDF? (don't want to have to buy both separately unfortunately)


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Kelvorn wrote:
Do we know if this will be something that gets shipped with a Subscription or will I have to choose between physical and PDF? (don't want to have to buy both separately unfortunately)

It is not a part of the subscription and will need to be purchased separately.


Is there a forum or thread for reporting editing mistakes in the Kingmaker books? I noticed in the PF2e version one of the creatures on the top left page 392 states that it's stats are referenced in Bestiary 6


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Doc Watson wrote:
Is there a forum or thread for reporting editing mistakes in the Kingmaker books? I noticed in the PF2e version one of the creatures on the top left page 392 states that it's stats are referenced in Bestiary 6

Are you sure that's not a reference to the Elite or Weak monster adjustments on page 6 of the PF2 Bestiary?

People tend to see the 6 as part of the title, but it's not italicized. It's a page number, not part of the title of the book.

And, yes, there's a PF2 Kingmaker forum in the Adventure Path forums
Kingmaker PF2


Dancing Wind wrote:
Doc Watson wrote:
Is there a forum or thread for reporting editing mistakes in the Kingmaker books? I noticed in the PF2e version one of the creatures on the top left page 392 states that it's stats are referenced in Bestiary 6

Are you sure that's not a reference to the Elite or Weak monster adjustments on page 6 of the PF2 Bestiary?

People tend to see the 6 as part of the title, but it's not italicized. It's a page number, not part of the title of the book.

And, yes, there's a PF2 Kingmaker forum in the Adventure Path forums
Kingmaker PF2

Oh, that makes more sense! Thank you!

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