Kineticist playtest hype!!!


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion

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So there's a real reason to give pyrokineticists something to do against things that are literally immune to fire. But "I hit you with rocks" seems to be a workable first, last, and every option for geokineticists as nothing is totally immune to that.

Since there's some appeal in the "with a big enough hammer, everything is a nail" approach.


keftiu wrote:
Karmagator wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:
I mean, previously the appeal of the energy blasts was that they targeted touch AC. But that's not a thing anymore. So I'm not sure that I need another way for my metallokineticist to hit people than "with metal."
I don't think the options will be that forced. It would make more sense for metal to have the three main physical damage types than to shoehorn some kind of energy type in there.
Metal could also include poison damage (though certainly not be default), between acid and radiation.

Electricity would also fit, given the Plane of Metal is meant to relate to magnetism.


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PossibleCabbage wrote:

So there's a real reason to give pyrokineticists something to do against things that are literally immune to fire. But "I hit you with rocks" seems to be a workable first, last, and every option for geokineticists as nothing is totally immune to that.

Since there's some appeal in the "with a big enough hammer, everything is a nail" approach.

Fire is the one that desperately needs a second damage type, but I think most people would appreciate it both from a mechanical and flavour perspective. Even rock guy over there would probably like to have at least the option of not just using some random boulder, but also a spray of rock spikes and, I dunno, a stone blade?


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Perpdepog wrote:
keftiu wrote:
Karmagator wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:
I mean, previously the appeal of the energy blasts was that they targeted touch AC. But that's not a thing anymore. So I'm not sure that I need another way for my metallokineticist to hit people than "with metal."
I don't think the options will be that forced. It would make more sense for metal to have the three main physical damage types than to shoehorn some kind of energy type in there.
Metal could also include poison damage (though certainly not be default), between acid and radiation.
Electricity would also fit, given the Plane of Metal is meant to relate to magnetism.

Electricity is strongly associated with air, so I don't think we'll see it in the other basic elements. Whatever the equivalent of composite blasts is will probably have some, though.


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PossibleCabbage wrote:

So there's a real reason to give pyrokineticists something to do against things that are literally immune to fire. But "I hit you with rocks" seems to be a workable first, last, and every option for geokineticists as nothing is totally immune to that.

Since there's some appeal in the "with a big enough hammer, everything is a nail" approach.

13th Age's excellent Demonologist class had a pyromancy-focused build with a limited ability to lower an enemy's AC for the rest of an encounter, representing literally melting their armor off. I'd love something for that to make the most commonly-resisted damage feel a little more interesting.


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber
Karmagator wrote:
Perpdepog wrote:
keftiu wrote:
Karmagator wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:
I mean, previously the appeal of the energy blasts was that they targeted touch AC. But that's not a thing anymore. So I'm not sure that I need another way for my metallokineticist to hit people than "with metal."
I don't think the options will be that forced. It would make more sense for metal to have the three main physical damage types than to shoehorn some kind of energy type in there.
Metal could also include poison damage (though certainly not be default), between acid and radiation.
Electricity would also fit, given the Plane of Metal is meant to relate to magnetism.
Electricity is strongly associated with air, so I don't think we'll see it in the other basic elements. Whatever the equivalent of composite blasts is will probably have some, though.

I could see it being added to fire. Avatar is an influence on this class; might as well go all in. Air could get Sonic in compensation.

I think 1 energy and 1 physical could work for most elements, but Fire could have multiple energy and Earth multiple physical.


How likely is support for a melee Kineticist, do folks think? I wasn't really around for the 1e class, and don't know how common it was compared to being more blasty.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber

Probably the single most commonly used archetype. I would be shocked if there’s no melee build option.

If you’re familiar with WoW, I made a decent facsimile of my enhancement shaman using the elemental annihilator archetype.


keftiu wrote:
How likely is support for a melee Kineticist, do folks think? I wasn't really around for the 1e class, and don't know how common it was compared to being more blasty.

From what I have seen and played (in the owlcat video games tbf), I would expect it to at least be an option. You could use your blast either as a sort of cantrip-esk ranged attack or as a pseudo melee weapon. It also just makes sense and is very thematic, especially for earth, metal and water (ice), so I don't see a good reason not to include it.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Was there an official Elemental Devastator archetype? I feel like that sounds like one of the third party ones, possibly the one that splits the blasts into a bunch of smaller blasts. I think the third party one I was thinking of was Onslaught Blaster. Elemental Annihilator is my best guess for what the Elemental Devastator might be.


I'm kinda bummed that I won't be able to do too much actual play testing this time around. My group is just coming off a few weeks of break, so I don't want to disrupt things right now. And in the game where I am a player, we are in the final stages of Curse of the Crimson Throne right now, so that's out as well.

Welp, character building, staged fights and white room analysis it is then :/


Karmagator wrote:
Tactical Drongo wrote:
Perpdepog wrote:

I hope that each element gets access to a physical and energy damage type this time around. Barring that, that the mechanisms for bypassing resistances and immunities come online earlier and haven't many hoops to jump through. There's nothing quite as sad as a pyrokineticist being told that they'll be fighting devils for the next three levels.

It'd also be neat if, were this to happen, each element could have a different damage type, but I recognize that would leave some elements with more exotic, harder to resist damage types than others.

Probably not each, hard to do for fire at least

the other way around it would be hard to get non-physical attacks for earth

but I remember blueflame and rare metal infusions to deal with resistant enemies

Earth has acid as its associated energy type. Fire is very tricky, though.

Acid could also reasonably be either metal or plant

plant because of corrosive plant juices, metal because it's also a plane of detoriation


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Tactical Drongo wrote:
Karmagator wrote:
Tactical Drongo wrote:
Perpdepog wrote:

I hope that each element gets access to a physical and energy damage type this time around. Barring that, that the mechanisms for bypassing resistances and immunities come online earlier and haven't many hoops to jump through. There's nothing quite as sad as a pyrokineticist being told that they'll be fighting devils for the next three levels.

It'd also be neat if, were this to happen, each element could have a different damage type, but I recognize that would leave some elements with more exotic, harder to resist damage types than others.

Probably not each, hard to do for fire at least

the other way around it would be hard to get non-physical attacks for earth

but I remember blueflame and rare metal infusions to deal with resistant enemies

Earth has acid as its associated energy type. Fire is very tricky, though.

Acid could also reasonably be either metal or plant

plant because of corrosive plant juices, metal because it's also a plane of detoriation

Someone up-thread mentioned that metal could get poison and I actually like that idea because there are a few actual metals that are notoriously poisonous: mercury and lead. So I second poison as a non-physical damage type for metal.

But fire... the only thing I can think of is if you apply an intense enough heat to a small enough area (like a blowtorch or laser), it's almost like piercing damage. But that seems like a stretch...


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber
Ryuujin-sama wrote:
Was there an official Elemental Devastator archetype? I feel like that sounds like one of the third party ones, possibly the one that splits the blasts into a bunch of smaller blasts. I think the third party one I was thinking of was Onslaught Blaster. Elemental Annihilator is my best guess for what the Elemental Devastator might be.

Yes I meant Annihilator.

In fairness, I was pretty drunk when I posted that. So we’re all lucky I even had the right class to start with.

Wayfinders

Fire could get solidified lava/molten rock as an option (it's kinda close to earth, but whatever, it's distinct enough I feel) - ifrit get that as an ancestry feat for a bludgeoning unarmed strike, so I could see a beefed-up version of that here.


If they let you pick multiple elements, which they really should, composite blats would deal with the whole "multiple damage types" thing. Magma is literally fire + earth, plasma is literally air + fire, sand is air + earth, mud is water + earth, etc.

Poison is an issue because usually poisons are liquids or gas (water and air respectively). It would be easier to just place poison talents as being universal and not deal with that whole issue.

As far as bypassing immunity, kineticist literally had Draining Infusion (deal 1/4 damage bypassing resistance and immunity and reduce the burn cost of the next blast by 1/2. They also had kinetic hold, which is a hold person vs creatures of the same element (if you can't damage them stop them from moving). So it would be extremely weird for those two options not to return.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber

They specifically said they weren’t going back to PF1 mechanics for the kineticist. So trying to use the PF1 version to map what the PF2 one will have is probably not a winning strategy. It might be there, but also might not be.


AnimatedPaper wrote:
They specifically said they weren’t going back to PF1 mechanics for the kineticist. So trying to use the PF1 version to map what the PF2 one will have is probably not a winning strategy. It might be there, but also might not be.

I am saying it would be a missed opportunity to not have at least 1 thing that let you handle elementals of your same element. Even if its just hold person being able to do something is better than just being straight up shut down from all interactions.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

One thing that would be amazing is if the kineticist, in its playtest state, is cool and strong enough to just straight up use in a campaign until the final product. I feel like some playtest classes have been perfectly playable and others are maybe a little too underwhelming, so we'll see!

I'm actually having a hard time sleeping, Monday can't come soon enough


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In the panel, they said that they had to write rules for controlling one element, two elements and so on, all the way up to controlling all the elements. That could mean anything, but composite "elements" seem like a natural product of that. Who knows, we might see multi-element combinations from level 1.

Avi said the class won't be too modular and that all kineticists will use the same base mechanics, but immediately followed that with saying that there would be tons of options. I'm thinking that means we won't have extreme playstyle differences between subclasses, but rather a wide range of options within one general niche. Basically less psychic or gunslinger and more swashbuckler or bard.


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I really hope it's not charisma based. Force of will sounds like a dead ringer but the system has so many charisma classes already and it's kind of exhausting. I'd prefer con or dex as the key stat. there's only so many classes I wanna build as a party face bc I might as well based on key stat

Sczarni

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
WWHsmackdown wrote:
I really hope it's not charisma based. Force of will sounds like a dead ringer but the system has so many charisma classes already and it's kind of exhausting. I'd prefer con or dex as the key stat. there's only so many classes I wanna build as a party face bc I might as well based on key stat

I will complain if con isn't a main stat for kineticist.

Con needs to be part of their main stat. 1) We don't have a con based class yet. 2) Part of what makes kineticist so great is that feeling of being the embodiment of an element and con helps achieve that feeling.


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WWHsmackdown wrote:
I really hope it's not charisma based. Force of will sounds like a dead ringer but the system has so many charisma classes already and it's kind of exhausting. I'd prefer con or dex as the key stat

It could be self-control, i.e. Charisma, but I think primal magic runs heavily on intuition and feeling things out, so Wisdom would make a lot of sense as well.

Constitution made sense mechanically for the 1e version (you were sacrificing health for power) and because you were channeling your element through your body. Depending on how their "spellcasting" works, the latter part might still be true. I doubt the first part will make it in, though, so who knows if Con will return.

Sczarni

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Karmagator wrote:

In the panel, they said that they had to write rules for controlling one element, two elements and so on, all the way up to controlling all the elements. That could mean anything, but composite "elements" seem like a natural product of that. Who knows, we might see multi-element combinations from level 1.

Avi said the class won't be too modular and that all kineticists will use the same base mechanics, but immediately followed that with saying that there would be tons of options. I'm thinking that means we won't have extreme playstyle differences between subclasses, but rather a wide range of options within one general niche. Basically less psychic or gunslinger and more swashbuckler or bard.

I really hope they have rules for multi-element combinations from level 1.

If I want to be a "sand kineticist" from the start, I should be able to.

It's as simple as creating a level 1 feat that allows me to combine elements together but I can only use that kinetic blast. For example, my air kinetic blasts now have the earth property and deal bludgeoning damage in the form of sand or some such.

Or perhaps fire + earth = Lava blast where my blasts deal both bludgeoning and fire damage at the same time and count for the same.

If you have resistance to bludgeoning or fire then it resists that damage. If you have weakness to bludgeoning or fire then it triggers that weakness.


Verzen wrote:
WWHsmackdown wrote:
I really hope it's not charisma based. Force of will sounds like a dead ringer but the system has so many charisma classes already and it's kind of exhausting. I'd prefer con or dex as the key stat. there's only so many classes I wanna build as a party face bc I might as well based on key stat

I will complain if con isn't a main stat for kineticist.

Con needs to be part of their main stat. 1) We don't have a con based class yet. 2) Part of what makes kineticist so great is that feeling of being the embodiment of an element and con helps achieve that feeling.

That was one of the aspects of the Legendary Kineticist I thought was quite clever. They had 6 HP per level, but also had Con as their main stat. The end result was a pseudo-caster who hit a nice sweet spot between the fragility of full casters and the chunkiness of martials.


Perpdepog wrote:
Verzen wrote:
WWHsmackdown wrote:
I really hope it's not charisma based. Force of will sounds like a dead ringer but the system has so many charisma classes already and it's kind of exhausting. I'd prefer con or dex as the key stat. there's only so many classes I wanna build as a party face bc I might as well based on key stat

I will complain if con isn't a main stat for kineticist.

Con needs to be part of their main stat. 1) We don't have a con based class yet. 2) Part of what makes kineticist so great is that feeling of being the embodiment of an element and con helps achieve that feeling.

That was one of the aspects of the Legendary Kineticist I thought was quite clever. They had 6 HP per level, but also had Con as their main stat. The end result was a pseudo-caster who hit a nice sweet spot between the fragility of full casters and the chunkiness of martials.

You see, I think at least d8 would be better. Kineticist should be able to stand in melee quite easily, something that can't be done with d6 HP.


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Con would be new for 2e, but it also the blandest of the ability scores by a good margin. Fort save and HP, that's it. Half of what it does can be mostly replaced by giving the class a higher health per level and the other by giving a better fortitude progression.

For those reasons, I expect the class to be 8HP and not have Con as their key ability.

Edit: I find it less likely, but I could also see 10HP to give melee more of a chance. As the in-world explanation, your body has become strengthened from you channeling your element through it.


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Pathfinder Pawns, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Not having Con as a main makes it more friendly for combining with other classes as well.


Also, I don't think "rock guy" with the massive tattoo-like markings all over his body is the first one you would sent to talk to people.

Sczarni

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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Ravingdork wrote:
Not having Con as a main makes it more friendly for combining with other classes as well.

Not every class needs to be able to combine with every other class.

Summoner is known for being difficult to combine with other classes even if it is a charisma based class simply because the Eidolon takes up a lot of resources.

Wayfinders

How would people feel about Str/Dex as a key ability choice, akin to martials like fighter and magus?

Sczarni

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Kinetic Knight was SUCH a popular concept, imo, they need to be a class archetype in Rage of Elements similar to how the spellshot was a class archetype for gunslinger.

Trades out ranged blasts for heavy armor proficiency, shield block, and martial attack instead of ranged attack.

I think martial kineticists were my favorite type of kineticists.


RiverMesa wrote:
How would people feel about Str/Dex as a key ability choice, akin to martials like fighter and magus?

I wouldn't terribly mind, but I don't think it is a great fit from a lore perspective. From what we know so far, it is not an Avatar bender with their fancy martial arts moves, who Dex or Str would fit like a glove. You are simply manipulating your element as a sort of pseudo spellcaster, which strongly implies one of the mental stats.

Sczarni

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Karmagator wrote:
RiverMesa wrote:
How would people feel about Str/Dex as a key ability choice, akin to martials like fighter and magus?
I wouldn't terribly mind, but I don't think it is a great fit from a lore perspective. From what we know so far, it is not an Avatar bender with their fancy martial arts moves, who Dex or Str would fit like a glove. You are simply manipulating your element, which strongly implies one of the mental stats.

Depends on the type of kineticist. In lore, some kineticists used str. It was probably one of the COOLEST kinetic archetypes to exist.

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternative-rule-systems/occult-adventures/occult- classes/kineticist/archetypes/paizo-llc-kineticist-archetypes/blighted-defi ler-kineticist-archetype/


Verzen wrote:
Karmagator wrote:
RiverMesa wrote:
How would people feel about Str/Dex as a key ability choice, akin to martials like fighter and magus?
I wouldn't terribly mind, but I don't think it is a great fit from a lore perspective. From what we know so far, it is not an Avatar bender with their fancy martial arts moves, who Dex or Str would fit like a glove. You are simply manipulating your element, which strongly implies one of the mental stats.

Depends on the type of kineticist. In lore, some kineticists used str. It was probably one of the COOLEST kinetic archetypes to exist.

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternative-rule-systems/occult-adventures/occult- classes/kineticist/archetypes/paizo-llc-kineticist-archetypes/blighted-defi ler-kineticist-archetype/

If it is not in the base class, this seems like strong class archetype material... unlike a certain gunslinger way.

Wayfinders

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Sort of adjacent to the class itself, and of course I'd have to see it first, but I wonder if whatever new revolutionary framework the class is built around will also be used for some manner of archetypes (beyond, of course, the kineticist multiclass archetype) - it'd be a shame to keep it exclusive like that if it's something truly new and distinct from regular spellcasting.


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I would prefer Con for a main stat and D12 HP. They could do it something like the Starfinder Vanguard where you want to take hits to power your stuff, making AC the weakest layer of defense.

Like give me an enormous HP pool, resistance, concealement, the ability to turn critical hits into regular hits, and an ablative temp HP pool and also give me bad AC.

Sczarni

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
PossibleCabbage wrote:

I would prefer Con for a main stat and D12 HP. They could do it something like the Starfinder Vanguard where you want to take hits to power your stuff, making AC the weakest layer of defense.

Like give me an enormous HP pool, resistance, concealement, the ability to turn critical hits into regular hits, and an ablative temp HP pool and also give me bad AC.

Agreed


PossibleCabbage wrote:

I would prefer Con for a main stat and D12 HP. They could do it something like the Starfinder Vanguard where you want to take hits to power your stuff, making AC the weakest layer of defense.

Like give me an enormous HP pool, resistance, concealement, the ability to turn critical hits into regular hits, and an ablative temp HP pool and also give me bad AC.

This.

You can then make Kinetic Knight a class archetype that then removes the range while giving you full armor to be a full on tank.


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Basically every singular ability score they could pick has issues. I wouldn't expect any one in particular. ¯\_('v')_/¯


keftiu wrote:

It might bode well for lots of other player options. There's plenty of elements that Monks don't have their hands on yet. It might be fun to see support for, say, primal Magi, or the followers of elemental lords. I was a big fan of some old 4e character tools that let you play as an efreet's servant, and that could be fun too.

I hope we get some good planar locales that support adventures across a variety of levels. I always *want* to like planar play, but it feels so removed from the core setting and so hard to anchor that I never reach for it,

...speaking of, we'll probably resolve the currently-muddy canon on the Goodly elemental lords! I remember that coming up a few years back.

Wondering if we'll see updates for the elementalist to support the new planes. Could also see updates to elemental sorcerer.


PossibleCabbage wrote:

I would prefer Con for a main stat and D12 HP. They could do it something like the Starfinder Vanguard where you want to take hits to power your stuff, making AC the weakest layer of defense.

Like give me an enormous HP pool, resistance, concealement, the ability to turn critical hits into regular hits, and an ablative temp HP pool and also give me bad AC.

The turning crits into hits bit I doubt will ever be anything but an extremely limited commodity in 2e, but the whole deal definitely sounds interesting. It also wouldn't have any thematic concerns, which is the main cause of so many classes being squishy.

I would advise not getting too hyped up, though. The kineticist sounds like it will be very limited in the breadth of magic it can use, so we won't get absolutely robbed in every other department like most other casters, but there will be a price.

I sincerely hope you won't be disappointed, though, because that sounds like a neat idea!

Dark Archive

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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Alfa/Polaris wrote:
Basically every singular ability score they could pick has issues. I wouldn't expect any one in particular. ¯\_('v')_/¯

I'm fairly confident they will be our first PF2e CON based class for 2 reasons.

1. It arguably defined the PF1e version of the class

2. During the live keynote address I typed in the chat "so, first PF2e CON based class?" and the Paizo moderated replied with a coy "Could be..."

I just hope they have designed a better "burn" type of mechanic. There have been some cool speculation in this thread, so I'm fairly confident the designers have come up with something good.

Karmagator wrote:

I would advise not getting too hyped up, though. The kineticist sounds like it will be very limited in the breadth of magic it can use, so we won't get absolutely robbed in every other department like most other casters, but there will be a price.

I sincerely hope you won't be disappointed, though, because that sounds like a neat idea!

Oh I agree on the magic part. The Kineticist, while seemingly magic, is not considered a magic class really and I really want it to stay that way. NO SPELLS is my hope. I'm also hoping they lean very heavy in their element, this shouldn't be a swiss army knife class. I would like for it to be very focused on what it does.

Master of different things, like fire could master persistent damage types (catch things on fire). Air to be master of maneuvers (use wind to shove, pull, trip). Water to master battlefield control (water prisons, cold that slows things down, ice to create difficult terrain). Earth to just brute force things (throwing boulders, spikes of stone, crumble stone structures).


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Alfa/Polaris wrote:
Basically every singular ability score they could pick has issues. I wouldn't expect any one in particular. ¯\_('v')_/¯

Con primary has to be the leader in the clubhouse, since that's what it was in PF1. In the previous couple years of PF2 when people said "what about a class that has Con as its primary attribute, what would that be like" the example everybody pointed to was "the kineticist."


Invictus Fatum wrote:

Oh I agree on the magic part. The Kineticist, while seemingly magic, is not considered a magic class really and I really want it to stay that way. NO SPELLS is my hope. I'm also hoping they lean very heavy in their element, this shouldn't be a swiss army knife class. I would like for it to be very focused on what it does.

Master of different things, like fire could master persistent damage types (catch things on fire). Air to be master of maneuvers (use wind to shove, pull, trip). Water to master battlefield control (water prisons, cold that slows things down, ice to create difficult terrain). Earth to just brute force things (throwing boulders, spikes of stone, crumble stone structures).

We know for a fact they don't get slots and innate spells are not a class thing. So at worst it will be focus spells or something similar to psychic's amps (which is practically the same thing). I wouldn't be surprised about a few "with the effects of x spell" feats, because that is expedient and makes a lot of sense.

Specialisations vs versatility will most likely come with how much you focus. If you only pick one and go hard on that, your grab bag of stuff you can do well will likely be rather limited - a bit more than some martials, I expect. If you pick several, you can likely do a lot more, just nothing as great. I would also expect combined elements to have other stuff as well, though, so it's not 100% clear cut.


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It wouldn't surprise me if the Kineticist was the first class to get a Magic Attack that has an Item Bonus associated with it.

Since one of the identities of the Kineticist in PF1 was that it was a "one big hit" class, and you really want to be able to hit with those. If your thing is "I'm going to throw a spike made of metal" or "a ball of brambles" at you, that's not exactly the sort of where "you get an effect on 3/4 potential outcomes" makes a lot of sense.

It's conceivable it's something like the Summoner where you just add your handwrap bonus to your kinetic blasts.


Im pretty sure the kineticist wasent a thing when I played 1e. How did the kinetic knight work, did they wield weapons, or what was the deal exactly? 'Cause it sounds like my jam. But I need big flails and hammers in my jam.


Lollerabe wrote:
Im pretty sure the kineticist wasent a thing when I played 1e. How did the kinetic knight work, did they wield weapons, or what was the deal exactly? 'Cause it sounds like my jam. But I need big flails and hammers in my jam.

The Kinetic Knight was an archetype for the Kineticist that exchanged all the ranged abilities for defensive ones and the ability to use the "Kinetic Blade" infusion for free. Kinetic Blade was the ability to manifest a melee weapon out of whatever element you were wielding, taking whatever shape you chose- basically so you could attack in melee without provoking.

There were several Kineticist builds from before that archetype was released that were based around Kinetic Blade/Whip and being tanky, so the Archetype basically served to enable those with less systems mastery.


Lollerabe wrote:
Im pretty sure the kineticist wasent a thing when I played 1e. How did the kinetic knight work, did they wield weapons, or what was the deal exactly? 'Cause it sounds like my jam. But I need big flails and hammers in my jam.

It was an archetype that really played off a talent called Kinetic Blade. A kineticist generally shot blasts of their element off as attacks, but Kinetic Blade would turn those into a melee hit instead so you could avoid AoOs and also bop someone with a huge hammer made of ice, things like that.

The Kinetic Knight leaned really hard into that ability, swapping out pretty much all your ranged blasting potential to upgrade Kinetic Blade a ton, letting you hit people at reach, spin and hit everyone around you, etc. You also got heavy armor into the bargain, and I think it might have changed a few other things.

The melee focus and heavier armor were the big takeaways, though.


The kinetic knight archetype also enabled you to use shields for the day by spending burn, changed the way water elemental defense worked (boost Armor/Shield AC instead of creating its own armor AC), and granted the ability to remove a handful of negative condition or just straight not die for 1 round.

It also had the ability to effectively teleport (and deal damage) as a reaction, at a hefty burn cost.

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