Throw two flasks of alchemist fire


Rules Questions


Hello,

1) What penalties apply to throwing two flasks of alchemist's fire in the same round if I already have both flasks in my hands?

2) At level 1, can the Rapid Shot feat be used with a bow? or you need to be able to use the weapon as a full round.

3) Does rapid fire also work for light and heavy crossbows?

Thanks.

The Exchange

sirmaniak wrote:

Hello,

1) What penalties apply to throwing two flasks of alchemist's fire in the same round if I already have both flasks in my hands?

2) At level 1, can the Rapid Shot feat be used with a bow? or you need to be able to use the weapon as a full round.

3) Does rapid fire also work for light and heavy crossbows?

Thanks.

1. You are Two-Weapon Fighting and can throw both as a full-round action. The attack roll penalties are pretty severe (see linked table) unless you have the Two-Weapon Fighting feat. Note that there has never been an official classification of alchemical weapons, but most GMs treat them as light weapons for purposes of TWF.

2. Yes, you can use Rapid Shot at level 1. You can always "use a weapon as a full round" if you have an ability that requires a full round.

3. Yes, you can use Rapid Shot with crossbows. Provided you can reload as a free action. That means having the Rapid Reload feat for light crossbows. You need Rapid Reload and Crossbow Matery for heavy crossbows. (Or equivalent feats/class abilities.)


Belafon wrote:
sirmaniak wrote:

Hello,

1) What penalties apply to throwing two flasks of alchemist's fire in the same round if I already have both flasks in my hands?

2) At level 1, can the Rapid Shot feat be used with a bow? or you need to be able to use the weapon as a full round.

3) Does rapid fire also work for light and heavy crossbows?

Thanks.

1. You are Two-Weapon Fighting and can throw both as a full-round action. The attack roll penalties are pretty severe (see linked table) unless you have the Two-Weapon Fighting feat. Note that there has never been an official classification of alchemical weapons, but most GMs treat them as light weapons for purposes of TWF.

2. Yes, you can use Rapid Shot at level 1. You can always "use a weapon as a full round" if you have an ability that requires a full round.

3. Yes, you can use Rapid Shot with crossbows. Provided you can reload as a free action. That means having the Rapid Reload feat for light crossbows. You need Rapid Reload and Crossbow Matery for heavy crossbows. (Or equivalent feats/class abilities.)

Perfect!, Thank you!


sirmaniak wrote:
1) What penalties apply to throwing two flasks of alchemist's fire in the same round if I already have both flasks in my hands?
    There are multiple options, actually.
    • Under the effect of Haste or a similar effect, you can use the bonbus attack from that, and don't suffer any penalty.
    • If you have BAB 6+, you can use the iterative attack for the second throw, and thus get no penalty on the 1st throw and a -5 on the second.
    • The alternative is the two-weapon fighting option. I don't think anything classifies Alchemist's Fire as a light weapon, and thus without the feat you're facing a -6 on the first throw and a -10 on the second throw. -4/-8 if the GM declares it a light weapon.

sirmaniak wrote:

2) At level 1, can the Rapid Shot feat be used with a bow? or you need to be able to use the weapon as a full round.

3) Does rapid fire also work for light and heavy crossbows?

You can full attack with any weapon or combination of weapons*, as long as you can get them ready to attack and can make enough attacks in a full-attack action. A projectile weapon must be loaded, and any weapon needs to be in hand, in order to attack with that weapon. Apart from natural weapons and worn weapons like armor spikes, obviously, which instead just need to be in the open. If you can reload a projectile weapon as a free or swift action, or can get it ready to fire in some other way (e.g. the shadowshooting enchantment), you can make multiple attacks with it during the same full-attack action.

There is one exception, and that's throwing melee weapons without a range indicator - making a full attack with those require the Quick Draw feat.

*) Some restrictions my apply, like when using TWF, or combining natural and manufactured weapons.


Step 1: Take Craft (Alchemy), and either Craft (Siege Engines), Craft (Firearms), or Craft (Weapons)

Step 2: Engineer the coolest Siege Weapon, Siege Firearm, or Exotic Weapon you can think of that can throw/launch 2, 3, 4, 30, or 100 of any of these things, dealer's choice.

Step 3: Get a wand of Shrink Item and carry your doomsday device in your pocket.

Step 4: Whenever you're ready to RunProgram(CurbstompThineEnemies), use a wand of Dispel Magic to return your doomsday device to regular size and pull the trigger.

Step 5: Sing the chorus of the pop song by American singer Britney Spears from her second studio album released on April 11, 2000 called "Oops! I did it again!" while making plenty of eye contact with your GM. A dance is also encouraged, but not required.

Liberty's Edge

Ryze Kuja wrote:


Step 4: Whenever you're ready to RunProgram(CurbstompThineEnemies), use a wand of Dispel Magic to return your doomsday device to regular size and pull the trigger.

You can end Shrink Item with a command word or by tossing the item on a solid surface. Either action is a standard action.

Dispel magic can work, but casting a spell usually is a standard action.

Pull the trigger: standard action or even more, depending on the action needed to make an attack with your doomsday device.

So, you need at least two rounds to do this trick.


Ryze Kuja wrote:

Step 1: Take Craft (Alchemy), and either Craft (Siege Engines), Craft (Firearms), or Craft (Weapons)

Step 2: Engineer the coolest Siege Weapon, Siege Firearm, or Exotic Weapon you can think of that can throw/launch 2, 3, 4, 30, or 100 of any of these things, dealer's choice.

Step 3: Get a wand of Shrink Item and carry your doomsday device in your pocket.

Step 4: Whenever you're ready to RunProgram(CurbstompThineEnemies), use a wand of Dispel Magic to return your doomsday device to regular size and pull the trigger.

Step 5: Sing the chorus of the pop song by American singer Britney Spears from her second studio album released on April 11, 2000 called "Oops! I did it again!" while making plenty of eye contact with your GM. A dance is also encouraged, but not required.

Shrink Item can be ‘dispelled’ by a word of command from the original caster, so no wand of Dispel Magic needed. Not sure if giving a word of command is free action speaking or should be treated as standard action as per magic items.


One last way, kind of a long way, to toss multiple flasks of Alchemist's Fire at once: Slipslinger Bombardment.

You need at least 4 feats plus weapon training (thrown), the Warslinger halfling trait or Weapon Focus (Sling), but when all of this comes together you can now throw multiple flasks using a sling. You make your normal amount of attacks/iterative attacks as part of a full attack action, and each piece of ammo that hits deals normal sling damage along with the damaging effect of the alchemical device.


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Diego Rossi wrote:
Ryze Kuja wrote:


Step 4: Whenever you're ready to RunProgram(CurbstompThineEnemies), use a wand of Dispel Magic to return your doomsday device to regular size and pull the trigger.

You can end Shrink Item with a command word or by tossing the item on a solid surface. Either action is a standard action.

Dispel magic can work, but casting a spell usually is a standard action.

Pull the trigger: standard action or even more, depending on the action needed to make an attack with your doomsday device.

So, you need at least two rounds to do this trick.

I would rule that it can only be loaded AFTER it is returned to it's normal size. IIRC correctly loading a siege engine is also at least a standard action. So 3 standard actions to pull it off...

Liberty's Edge

TxSam88 wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:
Ryze Kuja wrote:


Step 4: Whenever you're ready to RunProgram(CurbstompThineEnemies), use a wand of Dispel Magic to return your doomsday device to regular size and pull the trigger.

You can end Shrink Item with a command word or by tossing the item on a solid surface. Either action is a standard action.

Dispel magic can work, but casting a spell usually is a standard action.

Pull the trigger: standard action or even more, depending on the action needed to make an attack with your doomsday device.

So, you need at least two rounds to do this trick.

I would rule that it can only be loaded AFTER it is returned to it's normal size. IIRC correctly loading a siege engine is also at least a standard action. So 3 standard actions to pull it off...

You can Shrink a lit campfire, so I have no problems with shrinking a loaded weapon.


you might want to note that the rogue\unchained rogue archtype Underground Chemist get the Chemical Weapons ability:

Chemical Weapons (Ex): At 2nd level, an underground chemist is able to retrieve an alchemical item as if drawing a weapon. She adds her Intelligence modifier to damage dealt with splash weapons, including any splash damage. She adds 1/2 her level to Craft (alchemy) checks. This ability replaces evasion.

so with quick draw and such one can full attack with alchemical weapons (and get his int bonus for the damage etc). and at 4th level even might manage to get 1 sneak attack in a round with them.

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