Size-Changing Lycanthrope with a Ranged Weapon


Rules Questions


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I have an NPC who's a wereshark. So their hybrid form is Large. They use a ranged weapon.

Enlarge Person has a specific caveat that while your equipment grows with you, it shrinks again when it leaves your person, meaning that ranged weapon damage dice do not change. Lycanthropy does not have such a caveat, nor can I find any such things in the general Polymorph subschool rules. So is it correct to give their ranged weapon an upgraded damage die while in hybrid form?


Wereshark wrote:
change shape (human, hybrid, and shark; polymorph)
Change Shape (Su) All lycanthropes have three forms—a humanoid form, an animal form, and a hybrid form. Equipment does not meld with the new form between humanoid and hybrid form, but does between those forms and animal form.

It doesn't change the size of the equipment, because there's not a general rules in polymorph subschool for doing so (the only general rule for polymorph and equipment is it melding, which hybrid form explicitly avoids).

So it would be incorrect to give them an upgraded damage die, and in fact they should be taking a -2 penalty to their attack rolls for it being inappropriately-sized while in hybrid form.

Inappropriately Sized Weapons: A creature can’t make optimum use of a weapon that isn’t properly sized for it. A cumulative –2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder. If the creature isn’t proficient with the weapon, a –4 nonproficiency penalty also applies.


“If your new form does not cause your equipment to meld into your form, the equipment resizes to match your new size.” Taken from the general rules for polymorph effects. As the lycanthrope rules state that your gear does not meld with your form in humanoid or hybrid form then they must resize to fit your new size.

Shadow Lodge

Trokarr wrote:
“If your new form does not cause your equipment to meld into your form, the equipment resizes to match your new size.” Taken from the general rules for polymorph effects. As the lycanthrope rules state that your gear does not meld with your form in humanoid or hybrid form then they must resize to fit your new size.

This: Without this rule, the character would lose all their worn gear (including normal clothing) every time they shift to hybrid form...

Transmutation / Polymorph wrote:

Source PRPG Core Rulebook pg. 211

...
When you cast a polymorph spell that changes you into a creature of the animal, dragon, elemental, magical beast, plant, or vermin type, all of your gear melds into your body. Items that provide constant bonuses and do not need to be activated continue to function while melded in this way (with the exception of armor and shield bonuses, which cease to function). Items that require activation cannot be used while you maintain that form. While in such a form, you cannot cast any spells that require material components (unless you have the Eschew Materials or Natural Spell feat), and can only cast spells with somatic or verbal components if the form you choose has the capability to make such movements or speak, such as a dragon. Other polymorph spells might be subject to this restriction as well, if they change you into a form that is unlike your original form (subject to GM discretion). If your new form does not cause your equipment to meld into your form, the equipment resizes to match your new size.
...

Shadow Lodge

ShivStabbington wrote:

I have an NPC who's a wereshark. So their hybrid form is Large. They use a ranged weapon.

Enlarge Person has a specific caveat that while your equipment grows with you, it shrinks again when it leaves your person, meaning that ranged weapon damage dice do not change. Lycanthropy does not have such a caveat, nor can I find any such things in the general Polymorph subschool rules. So is it correct to give their ranged weapon an upgraded damage die while in hybrid form?

There is a odd difference between the following 'mirror' spells:
Enlarge Person wrote:

Source PRPG Core Rulebook pg. 277

...
All equipment worn or carried by a creature is similarly enlarged by the spell. Melee weapons affected by this spell deal more damage (see Table: Tiny and Large Weapon Damage). Other magical properties are not affected by this spell. Any enlarged item that leaves an enlarged creature's possession (including a projectile or thrown weapon) instantly returns to its normal size. This means that thrown and projectile weapons deal their normal damage. Magical properties of enlarged items are not increased by this spell.
...
Reduce Person wrote:

Source PRPG Core Rulebook pg. 330

..
Melee and projectile weapons deal less damage. Other magical properties are not affected by this spell. Any reduced item that leaves the reduced creature's possession (including a projectile or thrown weapon) instantly returns to its normal size. This means that thrown weapons deal their normal damage (projectiles deal damage based on the size of the weapon that fired them).
...

The general conclusion I'm seeing is "whichever interpretation is worse for archery, that's the one to use..."


Taja the Barbarian wrote:
The general conclusion I'm seeing is "whichever interpretation is worse for archery, that's the one to use..."

Paizo changed how the interaction of growth effects and ranged weapons works, my buest guess is that not changing Reduce Person was simply an error. I talked about that here, the gist of it is that damage is based on projectile size, which is unaffected by size change to the attacker.

@ShivStabbington: The NPC could use large sized arrows (putting them away, transformign into hybrid form, and then regrabbing the quiver). Of course, if you let NPCs do that, you should let PCs do that, too, if they so desire.


CRB FAQ:Size increases and effective size increases. There are several FAQs around the posted link that discuss size changes and damage increases. A clear parallel can be drawn for size decreases.

It depends on how a weapon is used. Many melee weapons can be used as thrown weapons(or vice versa) (spears, javelins{see description}, throwing axes etc).
Historically (over several editions, 40yrs) if you use it as a melee weapon you have a possessed/attended object and it gains the size change. As soon as you let it go (thrown/ranged/fired ammunition) it loses the effective size change. Historically players and GMs have kept spare weapons to match the attacker's new (effective) size (omgosh - so many bow & catapult examples over the years along with Shrink Item & Bag of Holding dropping tricks). For lycanthrope/polymorphs dropping a magical holding item(with stuff in it), changing, and then picking it up again is the tired and true method for items that are likely to be "absorbed". The key is to practice In Your Home Game before trying it out in battle. That way your GM can make a decision and you'll both know how it is going to work.

There are weapon enhancements revolving around size changes.

I'd suggest Leaden Blades or Gravity Bow as spells to increase the irony/patch the damage.

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