How do I cast super powerful magic missile?


Rules Questions


Recently I heard a shocking information in this webpage. It says, in Pathfinder, with the right feats and a high enough level, a caster can fire fifteen in a single round, with extra feats extending the range, increasing the damage, letting the missiles turn corners, or even ignore rolling damage altogether and just deal the maximum possible amount. While it didn't specify whether it's about First or Second Edition, I guess it's probably about First Edition. So, is it true? Can you please tell me how can I cast such powerful magic missile?


That link leads one to a picture, and this aforementioned picture has a caption with a quote by/from;

"Magic Missile Stormer (3.5e Optimized Character Build)"

Said "Magic Missile Stormer (3.5e Optimized Character Build)" is ALSO a link that leads one to a specific DnDwiki page titled to match... "Magic Missile Stormer (3.5e Optimized Character Build)"

I would therefore presume that the optimized character build you are referring to is, in fact, intended for 3.5e and neither PF1 or PF2. There ARE ways to make Magic Missile both effective and fun in PF1 [and probably PF2], but it won't be THAT particular "Magic Missile Stormer" from your link.

Regardless, this belongs in Advice or General... not the rules arena.


Is this it?
Magic Missile Stormer

From the looks of it, it is a character build (levels 1 - 20) to make an optimized magic missile casting monster. Looks to be for DND 3.5. It includes references to more than a few different sources.

It seems to build on the Warmage, which is a spontanous spell caster, and uses a few trick to apply a bunch of metamagic feats to spells. Most notably, it uses these tricks to cast a lot of magic missile spells at once. Quicken spell to cast 2 spells a turn, twin spell so the spell splits so you cast 2 spells at once, repeat spell so the spells are cast again next round so if you also cast 2 spells like you did last round then you effectively casting 4 spells, and the force missile mage adds more missiles to your magic missile spells.

Theres more, but I haven't finished deciphering the build yet.


Aenigma wrote:
It says, in Pathfinder, with the right feats and a high enough level, a caster can fire fifteen in a single round, with extra feats extending the range, increasing the damage, letting the missiles turn corners, or even ignore rolling damage altogether and just deal the maximum possible amount. [...] Can you please tell me how can I cast such powerful magic missile?

Most of that just describes ordinary metamagic feats. Extending range is done via Reach Spell and/or Enlarge Spell. Turning corners is dona via Seeking Spell. Maximum damage is done via Maximize Spell.

Increased damage can be done in a multitude of ways, e.g. a Sorcerer with the Orc bloodline and/or the Blood Havoc bloodline mutation.

Shooting 15 MM in a round requires three castings of the spell. Quicken Spell provides a second one, but I'm not sure how you'd get a third one without mystic stuff (unless you count e.g. a familiar activating a wand).

All in all, it's nothing special, and generally a poor use of recources. More interesting would actually be rider effects like from Toppling Spell.


Or Dazing spell.


This could also be using the mythic rules. An augmented mythic magic missile has a range of line of sight, creates double the number of missiles (max of 10), does 2d4+1 damage per missile, bypasses shield and other effects that stop magic missiles, and ignores spell resistance and spell immunity. Mythic spells can have metamagic feats applied to them to boost it even further.

One thing to keep in mind is that overspecialization often means the character becomes a one trick pony. Without using the mythic rules magic missiles are not that difficult to block. Usually, a shield spell renders them useless, and they are still subject to spell resistance. Spending all your feats and gold one thing usually results in a weak character.


a shield spell as you said or a ring of forcefangs. the latter would also help non casters to teach said caster a lesson in sharing. (ready action to shoot magic missiles when he cast, enjoy your concentration check)


The spell "borrowed time" will grant you an extra swift action per round (for the small cost of 1 con damage each time), this would allow 2 quickened spells to get to that 15 missile total.


Java Man wrote:
The spell "borrowed time" will grant you an extra swift action per round (for the small cost of 1 con damage each time), this would allow 2 quickened spells to get to that 15 missile total.

I'm not sure that borrowed time is an exception to the quickened and swift action spell rule of only one such spell per turn.

Quickened Spells wrote:
You can cast a quickened spell (see the Quicken Spell feat), or any spell whose casting time is designated as a free or swift action, as a swift action. Only one such spell can be cast in any round,

The reading would seem to apply to any spells taking a swift or immediate action (including quickened spells, which become swift actions). I think it would need specific wording in the spell to allow it as an exception.


Ah, I seem to be flat out wrong, borrowed time would not be the answer.


What you are thinking off is Time Stop and delayed Magic Missile. That allows you to delay 2 sets, and fire the third normally, thus 15 missiles. 20 if you also add in a pair of quickened magic missile.

As for dealing with shield. If you encounter that type of enemy and you are a spell caster there should still be plenty of ways to deal with it. Ex: Dispel Magic and counter spell.

*******************

P.S. In theory you could use empowered maximized magic missile along with stylish spell to make it look like you shot 15 missiles.

P.S.S. Pathfinder 1e is backwards compatible with DnD 3.5 as seen with the various feats that you can take that come from that edition. You can always check with a GM if they would allow some more stuff.


Anyone else remember the Force Missile Mage prestige class? It was published in Dragon 328, and there was an old forum post about converting to Pathfinder. Could be what one is looking for.

Liberty's Edge

Temperans wrote:
What you are thinking off is Time Stop and delayed Magic Missile. That allows you to delay 2 sets, and fire the third normally, thus 15 missiles. 20 if you also add in a pair of quickened magic missile.

You can't target an item or a creature while under the effect of Time stop, so you can't cast Magic Missile.

Instantaneous area spells deal no damage, too.
Only area spells that have an effect with a duration deal that affect after Time stop ends.


Kasoh wrote:
Anyone else remember the Force Missile Mage prestige class? It was published in Dragon 328, and there was an old forum post about converting to Pathfinder. Could be what one is looking for.

There was also an argent savant PrC in Complete Arcane (v.3.5) that specialized in force effects, both offensive and defensive.


Diego Rossi wrote:
Temperans wrote:
What you are thinking off is Time Stop and delayed Magic Missile. That allows you to delay 2 sets, and fire the third normally, thus 15 missiles. 20 if you also add in a pair of quickened magic missile.

You can't target an item or a creature while under the effect of Time stop, so you can't cast Magic Missile.

Instantaneous area spells deal no damage, too.
Only area spells that have an effect with a duration deal that affect after Time stop ends.

I thought you could still target people if the spell triggered after the time stop ended sinced delayed allows you to change when a spell is actually resolved. But I guess delayed does still set all variable and targets at casting time, not when they are triggered.

Stylish spell still works, just make a quality AoE look like it was a bunch of magic missiles.


you couldn't use delayed spell with magic missile anyway :

feat:
"..Only spells that target one or more squares or grid intersections can be affected by Delayed Spell, and the target (as well as any other variables determined at the time of casting) cannot be changed once the delayed spell is cast"

spell:
"Targets up to five creatures, no two of which can be more than 15 ft. apart"


use this magic item for the casting hand *-<8^)


A psychic can improve force spells by adding one step to damage, with the Focused Force amplification. A magic missile doing 1d6+1 instead of 1d4+1 doesn't sound like much, but it's a tad more than +25% overall damage. So roughly half as much as the mysterious ability that is supposed to allow 15 missiles per round instead of 10 (normal + quickened), and it's possible from level 1.


Focused force with empowered and maximized is a lot of damage. But its also so easy to avoid.


Temperans wrote:
Focused force with empowered and maximized is a lot of damage. But its also so easy to avoid.

Needing Shield, a minute/level duration spell, or a Ring of Forcefangs is far from easy to assume that most people have.

Both are also countered by Dispel Magic.

Also, another option for boosting Magic Missile is Ascendant Spell. This will allow you to basically double your missile damage from 1d4+1 to 2d4+1. It also bypasses shield and similar effects that specifically block non-mythic Magic Missile.

Unforutnately, Ascendant Spell won't get you the Augmented version, which lets you double your actual number of missiles. With Intensified Spell, Augmented Mythic Magic Missiles can fire up to 14 missiles for 2d4+1 each, for about 84 damage, 126 if maximized. 42 extra damage if empowered, and if you also have Orc Bloodline + Blood Havoc, you're looking at an extra 28 (42 if empowered) damage. At max, that's about 210 unresistable and unavoidable force damage from a single cast.

And you still have a Quickened rod for a total of 420 damage so blaze it, lol. But again, a lot of this requires Mythic.


Kaouse wrote:

Also, another option for boosting Magic Missile is Ascendant Spell. This will allow you to basically double your missile damage from 1d4+1 to 2d4+1. It also bypasses shield and similar effects that specifically block non-mythic Magic Missile.

Unforutnately, Ascendant Spell won't get you the Augmented version, which lets you double your actual number of missiles. With Intensified Spell, Augmented Mythic Magic Missiles can fire up to 14 missiles for 2d4+1 each, for about 84 damage, 126 if maximized. 42 extra damage if empowered, and if you also have Orc Bloodline + Blood Havoc, you're looking at an extra 28 (42 if empowered) damage. At max, that's about 210 unresistable and unavoidable force damage from a single cast.

And you still have a Quickened rod for a total of 420 damage so blaze it, lol. But again, a lot of this requires Mythic.

"unresistable and unavoidable" hmm... I'd say that's overly optimistic, especially in a mythic game or at high level games.


Even in a non-mythic game this can be avoided fairly easily. Magic Missile does not work on something with total concealment or total cover, so any ability that grants those will stop a magic missile in its tracks. There are plenty of spells that grant total concealment. Invisibility is only second level so a 3rd level non-mythic wizard could avoid even the augmented mythic magic missile.

Intensified Spell does not work on Magic Missile anyways. It only increases the damage dice not the number of attacks. Since the damage on magic missile does not scale with level it does nothing.

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