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FAQ's DR applies to magic attacks that do
weapon type damage (bludgeoning, slashing, piercing)
"as if it were from a physical weapon."
DR = damage ignored from *NORMAL ATTACKS* = nonmagical sources
Normal means "non-magical"
Attacks means "things that do damage"
Negates riders if totally blocks damage
DR Doesn't Apply:
touch attacks
energy damage dealt with an attack
energy drains
poisons (inhaled, ingested, contact)
diseases (inhaled, ingested, contact)
spells, slas, energy attacks
non-magical fire
DR = invulnerability, tough hide, instant healing
JJ - states FAQ'd SR applies environmental damage
So does DR apply to NORMAL environmental damage?
JJ states it's just untyped damage.
Falling damage is UNTYPED.
Nothing in here says DR doesn't apply to untyped damage.
Applies to all damage, regardless of source, except what's after the slash.
Unless the DR entry says it doesn't apply.
Ergo, DR applies to Falling Damage, even IF it is untyped.
Is there an actual statement somewhere where it doesn't apply to environmental damage? Because I'm not finding that anywhere. Only that JJ says it's untyped, and a bunch of mysquotes about it not applying or changing to bludgeoning or some other thing. It doesn't have to change to typed. It applies to anything except whatever is after the slash. That means UNTYPED. It applies to untyped just like it was NOT slashing with DR 5/slashing.
Am I incorrect in my reading of this? Did I simply miss the part of the book where it says DR doesn't apply to environmental damage (it isn't under the DR, nor environmental sections).
Adding in this quote from JJ: "Spells and effects that do untyped damage are pretty rare in Pathfinder, since these spells are quite powerful since their damage can't be stopped by any form of immunity, resistance, or damage reduction." - Note he specifically says DR doesn't apply to the SPELLS that are untyped (neither do immunity or resistances). He specifically stated in another post that environmental damage do cold/heat damage where it seems to apply = countering the idea that untyped (well, badly described, let's be honest) environmental damage overcomes immunity and SR.
A) What is untyped damage. (Got a source for the definition?)
B) is untyped damage from a NORMAL (non-spell/magic source) different than magical untyped damage (seems to be based on the SR FAQ).
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The situation is this: DR applies to EVERYTHING except what's after the Slash. SR applies to ONLY what's listed. So UNTYPED SPELL damage ignores everything because it is NOT what's listed - and specifically bypasses DR. DR applies to UNTYPED Natural damage, because it is NOT what's after the slash.
Seems to be the correct interpretation of RAW, anyway. (Still couldn't find "untyped damage" defined anywhere).
DR 5/slashing- stops everything except slashing. Untyped isn't slashing, not (an) energy (type) damage. So it's stopped.
SR Cold 5. Disintegrate does 40d6 untyped energy damage from a spell. It is not Cold. So it bypasses SR cold 5. It also bypasses DR 5/slashing because it is energy damage from a spell.
It comes down to inclusive and exclusive abilities. DR is exclusive in that it protects against what's NOT listed. SR is inclusive in that it protects against ONLY what's listed. So when you get to spell energy, is it listed? No. Then no protection. The opposite applies to normal (non-magic) damage from all sources for DR. Is it /slashing? Then protection!
To the best of my knowledge, by strict RAW damage reduction does not prevent damage from falling.
Personally I think that's stupid, but there are some old FAQ/errata someplace that I believe backs that up, but heck if I'll be able to find it quickly.
I don't recall the line of reasoning to be honest, but I didn't like the answer so I vaguely recall it.
“ The creature ignores damage from most WEAPONS and natural attacks. Wounds heal immediately, or the WEAPON bounces off harmlessly (in either case, the opponent knows the attack was ineffective). The creature takes normal damage from energy attacks (even nonmagical ones), spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. A certain kind of WEAPON can sometimes damage the creature normally, as noted below.
The entry indicates the amount of damage ignored (usually 5 to 15 points) and the type of WEAPON that negates the ability. Some monsters are vulnerable to bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage. Others are vulnerable to materials, such as adamantine, cold iron, or silver. Attacks from WEAPONS that are not of the correct type or made of the correct material have their damage reduced, although a high enhancement bonus can overcome some forms of damage reduction.” This is taken directly from the rules for DR found in the universal monster rules on AoN. It seems pretty clear that DR is meant to reduce damage from weapons and weapon-like abilities like Natural Attacks or unarmed strikes. The ground is not a weapon nor is it attacking the falling target. In fact the ground takes as much damage from the fall as the person falling on it although due to hardness (which does ignore falling damage) the ground usually doesn’t take any damage. If u fall on a surface without hardness like a glass table or thatch roof etc. then that object will also be damaged from the fall. Since the person falling is the thing that is actually moving in this case and the ground is not then more accurately the faller is attacking the ground and not the other way around. That’s my 2 cents anyway.
“ Wrack (Su): At 1st level, a blood kineticist can use her abilities to wrack a target within 30 feet, harming the target by manipulating its blood from the inside. The target takes half the normal damage of the blood kineticist’s blast, and can attempt a Fortitude save to reduce that amount to 1/4 normal damage, but the damage is UNTYPED and ignores damage reduction. This is a 1st-level form infusion that costs 0 points of burn and can be used with water and blood blasts. This ability replaces the 1st-level infusion.” This from the Blood Kineticist Archetype gives an indication that the Devs intend for untyped damage to ignore DR. Not conclusive proof but an indication anyway.
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DR protects against weapon damage
Falling isn't a weaponThis argument has been had to death in the past. Most people agree that falling isn't a weapon.
True, but most people also agree that being beat with a club (or hit by the natural attack of a gigantic creature) shouldn't be treated as so radically different from falling damage that suddenly your resistance doesn't apply.
I think most people understand that falling isn't a weapon, but that kind of damage that falling causes isn't very different from a big heavy natural attack or bludgeoning weapon. And that's where the thing breaks down, because while people can parse the rules it doesn't make sense to us on a logical level.
To answer one of the OPs questions “ A) What is untyped damage. (Got a source for the definition?)” Untyped damage is literally ANY damage that lacks a type such as fire or slashing.
This quote posted by the OP. “ Adding in this quote from JJ: "Spells and effects that do untyped damage are pretty rare in Pathfinder, since these spells are quite powerful since their damage can't be stopped by any form of immunity, resistance, or damage reduction." Clearly the Devs intend for Untyped damage to be powerful and rare. If DR applies to untyped damaged then that would make it the absolute WEAKEST type of damage because ALL types of DR would apply to it as untyped damage by definition lacks any type that would allow it to bypass a DR with a type. This goes completely counter to the Devs intent.
It’s true that in real life falling on a boulder at 30mph, having a boulder fall on you at 30mph and having a boulder thrown at you at 30mph will all do equivalent damage. But this is a game not real life. This is more an issue of game balance and mechanics than anything else. If, by consensus, a gaming group should decide that falling damage should have DR apply to it then that’s totally fine. But this will also apply to enemies as well. This actually favors enemies more than PCs as the vast majority of PCs will have little or no DR normally. However many monsters have DR and quite a few have very high DR. I think a lot of wizard players will not like that their Create Pit spells will do a good chunk less damage so that the party Barbarian can save a few HP on the few occasions they may take falling damage.
Honestly, I always took damage reduction to apply to any physical type damage that wasn't bypassed by the DR. Prior to seeing it on this forum, it hadn't even entered my mind that DR didn't apply to falls.
It's also a relatively uncommon thing (in my experience) to be worried overly much about DR 5 or 10 from falling damage to make a significant difference one way or the other in an encounter.
It's really only an issue (IMO) if the DR negates all or most of the damage, but if the DR is capable of doing so it's unlikely that the damage is a significant portion of PC or monster HP.