Kitsune - Form Choice


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion


Would you allow a Kitsune PC to swap the Form granted by their Heritage for the other? It’s frustrating to me that only two Heritages have access to the Pest Form, and it feels like a flavor miss that Frozen Winds can’t turn into little arctic foxes. An option to choose between a tailless form or fox shape would work better as a choice all Kitsune get, IMO, or at the very least available from a feat.

Is it just me that feels this way?


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The alternate form is all flavor; pest form stops being useful very quickly since the stealth modifier doesn't scale up, and the tailless form has no benefit unless you're playing in a setting where furries are killed on sight. Costs nothing to let players pick, or have kitsune be hybrid form by default if you're feeling extra spicy.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber
keftiu wrote:
. . . or at the very least available from a feat.

The kitsune ancestry feat Myriad Forms does exactly that.


Definitely not just you, there's a player in my group who really doesn't like Tailless form and has stated they won't play anything but Dark Fields or Earthly Wilds without a houserule like this. Having it be by Heritage also means that every V.Heritage is locked into Tailless because that's the "default".

While the feat does exist, it's a bit disappointing that it's not until level 5, and also competes with Hybrid Form.

That said, there is a bit of future proofing in that by linking the alternate form with the Heritage, it does allow the possibility of them adding alternate forms in future Heritages (while unlikely, due to it being a level 2 spell, one that got a true Animal Form would be cool, for instance.)


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Arachnofiend wrote:
The alternate form is all flavor; pest form stops being useful very quickly since the stealth modifier doesn't scale up, and the tailless form has no benefit unless you're playing in a setting where furries are killed on sight. Costs nothing to let players pick, or have kitsune be hybrid form by default if you're feeling extra spicy.

I would definitely say that letting players pick their forms or even have all of them from the start - including Hybrid form - is a good idea. Apart from the fox form, they don really do anything, anyway. Ok, they technically allow for a one-off disguise, but that is really not a thing you'll get to use more than once.

I would like to point out, though, that you can just use your own stealth modifier once it is higher, so the pest form scales reasonably well now that it has 20ft Speed.


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One thing tailless form is good for is running two identities; the only limitations is roughly analogous features; like hair and eye color, it doesn't say the two.are automatically distinguishable. This could let, say, a kitsune assassin have a human social ID and a kitsune killer ID. Eye and hair color, height, build, amd sex might be a lot of information at first glance, but isn't nearly enough to incriminate. Another trick is that with Glamoured armor, two action can make your foxy thief look like another bum on the street

It's very handy for liars who want a clean social persona or like having an escape hatch


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

There are some decent uses for both abilities, but it also does not really feel like a balance point for the kitsune. There's no problem in letting the player pick (and even just letting the player have both for free isn't really that big of a deal).


Squiggit wrote:
There are some decent uses for both abilities, but it also does not really feel like a balance point for the kitsune. There's no problem in letting the player pick (and even just letting the player have both for free isn't really that big of a deal).

Oh, I agree that there's no balance point for it, my contention was that tailless form was only good for places where "furries were killed on sight"

Getting a choice seems reasonable, both are about equally good


I've gotten a weird amount of value from Pest Form simply because of its tiny size and notable cuteness. The Stealth and Acrobatics modifiers are surprisingly good for a lot of early levels as well, especially if Dexterity isn't your thing or you don't normally have training (obviously). The 20 Speed, though certainly much better than before, is a slight hampering element, but still.

Kitsune's Pest Form is the only one I can think of which lasts for an unlimited duration with unlimited frequency, so in a relative sense, it's pretty strong. Certainly moreso than the default tailless form, which aside from RP benefits is mostly a way to lose access to Foxfire if you have that.

All of that said, I think most other sources of Pest Form are undertuned and the tailless form's relative uselessness is exactly a reason to houserule the choice away if you want to.

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