Cartomancer witch + card caster questions


Rules Questions


Hello, i'm considering this multiclass and i need a rule lawyer. Please don't tell me "play this other class instead", i have reasons.

First question: cartomancer witch replaces familiar with spell deck. Can i still take the magus arcana to get a familiar?

Second question: with broad study arcana i could use witch spells with spellstrike. But can i use magus spells with the deliver touch spell from the witch? It doesn't specify that the spells must be witch spells

Third question: what happens if i cast a touch spell with multiple charges, let's say frostbite?
A) If i was just a card caster i would cast the spell, throw a card, discharge a single charge, then the card would be destroyed and the rest of the charges lost. I can then use my iteractive attacks without frostbite. Correct?

B) If i was just a cartomancer i would cast the spell and deliver it with a card targetting touch AC, spending a single charge. The card doesn't get destroyed, and comes back before the next turn. Meanwhile, i used my standard action to cast and throw, so no more attacks. Correct?

C) Since i'm a card caster AND a cartomancer i can cast frostbite infusing it in a single card using spell combat and spell strike, and the card shouldn't be destroyed. I don't think i can target touch AC, but i'm not sure. I then should be able to make my iteractive attacks, but since i infused a single card with frostbite and it comes back before my next turn, my iteractive attacks work as normal darts. Correct?

D) Let's say my cartomancer/card caster gets the ricochet toss feat: now he can spell combat and spell strike infusing a single card with frostbite and then take all of his attacks with the same card, allowing him to deliver multiple frostbite charges in the same round. Correct?

Liberty's Edge

1) Yes, but its spell related abilities work for the Magus spells only.

2) "In addition, the cartomancer can deliver a touch spell" That "the cartomancer" limits the ability to the cartomancer spells.

3)
a) yes.
b) Incorrect. "This uses the Deadly Dealer feat (see below), except the attack is resolved as a ranged touch attack". Ranged touch attacks don't hold the charge. One throw is all you get.

c) Incorrect. See b).
d) Incorrect. See b).

BTW, to infuse a spell into a card as a Magus you need to be a Card Caster. Spellstrike works only with the weapon that you are wielding. Once the weapon has been thrown you aren't wielding it anymore.


sorry, about D)

I'm using harrowed spellstrike here, which doesn't talk about ranged touch attacks. It talks about investing a single thrown weapon (so, a card) with a single touch spell or ranged spell (let's stick with frostbite, a melee touch spell) making it work as the normal spellstrike (which can deliver multiple charges, as far as i know. That's the core of the most common hexcrafter build) except it can be delivered through a card. No ranged touch attacks here.

I'm not using the witch deliver touch spells, only its first and "passive" effect (cards are not destroyed when the character uses deadly dealer and her own spell deck).

Now, the cartomancer and the card caster are the same person.
This person is using his own spell deck
The cartomancer/card caster is using deadly dealer.
So the cards shouldn't get destroyed (?)

Now, if the card isn't destroyed charges shouldn't be lost.
If i can use ricochet toss to have it back after every attack (bypassing returning), why can't i deliver multiple charges of frostbite with iteractive attacks?
Again, this is not a ranged touch attack, it's a touch spell charge delivered through a ranged non-touch attack

Liberty's Edge

Level 20 NPC wrote:


Again, this is not a ranged touch attack, it's a touch spell charge delivered through a ranged non-touch attack

When the spell range change, the spell become a ranged attack.

Liberty's Edge

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harrowed spellstrike wrote:
and the spell’s range changes to match the thrown weapon’s range increment.

it isn't spellstrike that allows you to hold multiple charges in a weapon, it is:

[quotte=CRB]Touch Spells in Combat:
...
Holding the Charge: If you don’t discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the charge indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round.

Ranged spells don't have that ability. When you change the range of the spell to Ranged, you lose it.

People continue to think that spellstrike gives a lot of abilities that instead are given by other parts of the rules, and then do some mental mathematics to get wrong results as they are adding the wrong things.

UM wrote:
Spellstrike (Su): At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell. If the magus makes this attack in concert with spell combat, this melee attack takes all the penalties accrued by spell combat melee attacks. This attack uses the weapon’s critical range (20, 19–20, or 18–20 and modified by the keen weapon property or similar effects), but the spell effect only deals ×2 damage on a successful critical hit, while the weapon damage uses its own critical modifier.

Do you see anything in that text about holding a charge?

As I explained above, holding a charge is part of another rule, and while the two interact, changing spellstrike to harrowed spellstrike doesn't change the underlining rule about holding a charge.

You need something like Ranged spellsrike from the Eldritch archer archetype to deliver multiple ranged touches instead of melee touches.
Without explicit permission, you can't.

Eldritch archer, Ranged spellsrike wrote:
If the spell can normally affect multiple targets, only a single missile, ray, or effect accompanies each attack; if the spell allows multiple attacks and the eldritch archer can make additional ranged attacks as part of a full-round action with spell combat, one additional ray, missile, or effect from the spell accompanies each subsequent ranged attack the eldritch archer makes in the same round until all attacks allowed by the spell are made. Unused missiles, rays, or effects remaining at the end of the eldritch archer’s turn are wasted. This ability alters spellstrike.


Thanks, now i get it :)

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