Is this build too complex for what is basically suppose to be a rookie / self taught character?


Advice

Silver Crusade

Long story short I wanted to build a character in the vein of the acolyte class in Ragnarok online, one that casts divine magic-using various symbols of their god as crutches of conduits as they never got proper training, but when pushed has shown to be able to do a few tricks unique to them.

This build is a Preacher/Relic Hunter Inquisitor and a good example of a trick is being able to use servitor to summon a hound archon and then just litany of righteousness to double all its damage. making it a viable combat buddy. Here's the build and for those who are asking why I didn't go for transmutation asap, I wanted to go a more support route.

Relic Hunter/Preacher(Neophyte:Play like a Cleric/Occultist)

Traits:Fate's Favored

Arodenite Sword Training

Relics(Implements)

1.Conjuration and Enchantment

4.Abjuration

7.Evocation

10.Transmutation

Resonant Powers:

Casting Focus

Glorious Presence

Warding Talisman

Intense Focus

Physical Enhancement

Base Focus Powers

Servitor:Summon Monster, but one at a time

Cloud Mind

Mind Shield

Energy Ray

Legacy Weapon

------------------------------------

Focus Powers

1.Mind Steed

4.Mend Flesh

8.Resistence Mastery

12.Ability Mastery

1.Spell Focus (Conjuration)

3.Power Attack

5.Augment Summoning

7.Implement Mastery

9.Extra Mental Focus

11.Summon Good Monster

13.Divine Interference


As I mentioned on your Reddit post before it was deleted. The Preacher archetype is the definition of a mass downgrade. You are replacing all the time effects for a few abilities a few times a day. It really isn't worth it.

Anyway why would you want to give up team work feats and solo tactics when you want to summon? Summoning them in the right place can be really useful.

That said using Servitor to summon is in my humble opinion not very good as you will be using most of your focus on it, and stuck with only summoning 1 creature. While Summoning is strong, it is its flexibility that pushes it up the power rankings. Limited to 1 Hound Archon is not great.

If you want to cast as an Inquisitor. The Monster Tactician is considerably better at it. You mentioned Cleric too, and in that case the Herald Caller is better.


Minigiant, I think you completely missed the purpose and intent of their build… they are making a self-taught novice divine Spellcaster… it’s not so much a min-max power build as it is a viable thematic build. Summoning is only one facet of the build, and like the rest of the build is deliberately intended to not be “the best”. I can tell you from experience, sometimes the most enjoyable builds are the ones that don’t actually excell at anything. Builds that struggle every step of the way can be very enjoyable, especially when you are used to steamrolling everything and want a change of pace.


Chell Raighn wrote:
Minigiant, I think you completely missed the purpose and intent of their build… they are making a self-taught novice divine Spellcaster… it’s not so much a min-max power build as it is a viable thematic build.

I think that depends on how you view RP. Some people need mechanics to inform their RP, and some people don't; I am obviously of the latter persuasion.

Chell Raighn wrote:
Summoning is only one facet of the build, and like the rest of the build is deliberately intended to not be “the best”.

I think it is a very unfocused build, which does not have to be min-max, but when you are mediocre at everything, you cannot be good at anything let alone the best.

Silver Crusade

Chell Raighn wrote:
Minigiant, I think you completely missed the purpose and intent of their build… they are making a self-taught novice divine Spellcaster… it’s not so much a min-max power build as it is a viable thematic build. Summoning is only one facet of the build, and like the rest of the build is deliberately intended to not be “the best”. I can tell you from experience, sometimes the most enjoyable builds are the ones that don’t actually excell at anything. Builds that struggle every step of the way can be very enjoyable, especially when you are used to steamrolling everything and want a change of pace.

You pretty much got the exact idea. Like I got an eldritch scoundrel rouge build that I really like that has high utility, but I know a well-made magus will likely run circles around it, that was never the point.


Malik Gyan Daumantas wrote:
Chell Raighn wrote:
Minigiant, I think you completely missed the purpose and intent of their build… they are making a self-taught novice divine Spellcaster… it’s not so much a min-max power build as it is a viable thematic build. Summoning is only one facet of the build, and like the rest of the build is deliberately intended to not be “the best”. I can tell you from experience, sometimes the most enjoyable builds are the ones that don’t actually excell at anything. Builds that struggle every step of the way can be very enjoyable, especially when you are used to steamrolling everything and want a change of pace.
You pretty much got the exact idea. Like I got an eldritch scoundrel rouge build that I really like that has high utility, but I know a well-made magus will likely run circles around it, that was never the point.

What does it mean that you are an eldritch scoundrel rogue build that has high utility, but a well-mage magus will likely run circles around it?

If you are saying that in (virtually) all cases, the mage is better than you (disabling devices, damage, skills, etc.) -- I have to ask, why are you playing a scoundrel instead of a magus?

If you are saying that your two toons are similar, with minor bonuses to one or the other ... that's fair ... like, an unchained rogue should be able to deal tons of debuffs to the enemy, but the magus should have more oomph in his attacks/spells. (spell strike with shocking grasp is usually more than a sneak attack) -- it's a wash.

In my opinion ... if you have two choices, one of which is superior in (almost) all cases ... why wouldn't you chose that one every time?

I'm not saying "Is a prepared spellcaster with foreknowledge better than a fighter" ... I am saying "If I am going to be a healer, why play a warpriest when I could play a life oracle" -- and "If I am going to be playing an off healer which mostly attacks in combat, then a life oracle is (usually) the wrong choice"


Malik Gyan Daumantas wrote:


Spoiler:
Long story short I wanted to build a character in the vein of the acolyte class in Ragnarok online, one that casts divine magic-using various symbols of their god as crutches of conduits as they never got proper training, but when pushed has shown to be able to do a few tricks unique to them.

This build is a Preacher/Relic Hunter Inquisitor and a good example of a trick is being able to use servitor to summon a hound archon and then just litany of righteousness to double all its damage. making it a viable combat buddy. Here's the build and for those who are asking why I didn't go for transmutation asap, I wanted to go a more support route.

Relic Hunter/Preacher(Neophyte:Play like a Cleric/Occultist)

Traits:Fate's Favored

Arodenite Sword Training

Relics(Implements)

1.Conjuration and Enchantment

4.Abjuration

7.Evocation

10.Transmutation

Resonant Powers:

Casting Focus

Glorious Presence

Warding Talisman

Intense Focus

Physical Enhancement

Base Focus Powers

Servitor:Summon Monster, but one at a time

Cloud Mind

Mind Shield

Energy Ray

Legacy Weapon

------------------------------------

Focus Powers

1.Mind Steed

4.Mend Flesh

8.Resistence Mastery

12.Ability Mastery

1.Spell Focus (Conjuration)

3.Power Attack

5.Augment Summoning

7.Implement Mastery

9.Extra Mental Focus

11.Summon Good Monster

13.Divine Interference

I'm not really familiar with lots of your build ... what does it do? Like, I saw you post about a hound archon (CR4, summon monster 4) and spamming level 3 spells on the hound archon.

I have to be missing something ... like do you summon it early? how does it stay viable?

You mention you play like a Cleric/Occultist, but with your reduced spell levels ... it seems more like you are trying to play as a sub-part Warpriest/Occultist ... You don't seem to have channel / etc ...

Sorry, I'm sure your build makes perfect sense to you -- I completely understand playing as a jack-of-all-trades ... and how being a generalist is less powerful than a specialist, I am just not seeing this

Silver Crusade

meyerwilliam wrote:
Malik Gyan Daumantas wrote:
Chell Raighn wrote:
Minigiant, I think you completely missed the purpose and intent of their build… they are making a self-taught novice divine Spellcaster… it’s not so much a min-max power build as it is a viable thematic build. Summoning is only one facet of the build, and like the rest of the build is deliberately intended to not be “the best”. I can tell you from experience, sometimes the most enjoyable builds are the ones that don’t actually excell at anything. Builds that struggle every step of the way can be very enjoyable, especially when you are used to steamrolling everything and want a change of pace.
You pretty much got the exact idea. Like I got an eldritch scoundrel rouge build that I really like that has high utility, but I know a well-made magus will likely run circles around it, that was never the point.

What does it mean that you are an eldritch scoundrel rogue build that has high utility, but a well-mage magus will likely run circles around it?

If you are saying that in (virtually) all cases, the mage is better than you (disabling devices, damage, skills, etc.) -- I have to ask, why are you playing a scoundrel instead of a magus?

If you are saying that your two toons are similar, with minor bonuses to one or the other ... that's fair ... like, an unchained rogue should be able to deal tons of debuffs to the enemy, but the magus should have more oomph in his attacks/spells. (spell strike with shocking grasp is usually more than a sneak attack) -- it's a wash.

In my opinion ... if you have two choices, one of which is superior in (almost) all cases ... why wouldn't you chose that one every time?

I'm not saying "Is a prepared spellcaster with foreknowledge better than a fighter" ... I am saying "If I am going to be a healer, why play a warpriest when I could play a life oracle" -- and "If I am going to be playing an off healer which mostly attacks in combat, then a life oracle is (usually) the wrong choice"

Well in the case of the E.S Rogue vs the magus, the idea is while both of them are competent in their own right. The rogue has much higher utility and problem-solving capabilities due to having both access to the Rogues skill set and wizard spellcasting, while the magus has more raw power and combat capability.

I don't think anybody can say between these 2 characters in a head on fight the magus would win, the Rogue would have to get really clever.

And that's kinda what I want for this. With high utility and acceptable competency in combat but can't really hold a candle to a warpriest and so would largely be relegated to support in bigger fights.

I will concede this build is kind of all over the place, but I honestly don't know where to take it, the only thing I know for sure is that preacher inquisitor is the base I wanna go with, but and I know this is gonna sound crazy but I kinda wanna get rid of bane as I feel its a bit too strong for what I'm going for.


I cannot be the only one not following the leap from Inquisitor to E.Scoundrel vs Magus, what do they have to do with one another?

Malik Gyan Daumantas wrote:
the only thing I know for sure is that preacher inquisitor is the base

What about the Preacher do you want? Because from experience you will be significantly disappointed from it.

Silver Crusade

Minigiant wrote:

I cannot be the only one not following the leap from Inquisitor to E.Scoundrel vs Magus, what do they have to do with one another?

Malik Gyan Daumantas wrote:
the only thing I know for sure is that preacher inquisitor is the base

What about the Preacher do you want? Because from experience you will be significantly disappointed from it.

Simply put, I hate teamwork feats.


Malik Gyan Daumantas wrote:
Minigiant wrote:

I cannot be the only one not following the leap from Inquisitor to E.Scoundrel vs Magus, what do they have to do with one another?

Malik Gyan Daumantas wrote:
the only thing I know for sure is that preacher inquisitor is the base

What about the Preacher do you want? Because from experience you will be significantly disappointed from it.

Simply put, I hate teamwork feats.

But Solo Tactics means you can always use them, and not reliant on teammates taking them. You are planning on Summoning, you can use the Hound Archon to trigger your solo tactics

Silver Crusade

Minigiant wrote:
Malik Gyan Daumantas wrote:
Minigiant wrote:

I cannot be the only one not following the leap from Inquisitor to E.Scoundrel vs Magus, what do they have to do with one another?

Malik Gyan Daumantas wrote:
the only thing I know for sure is that preacher inquisitor is the base

What about the Preacher do you want? Because from experience you will be significantly disappointed from it.

Simply put, I hate teamwork feats.
But Solo Tactics means you can always use them, and not reliant on teammates taking them. You are planning on Summoning, you can use the Hound Archon to trigger your solo tactics

Oooh that is a good point...

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