Hopefully quick question:
If I use simulacrum to create a "duplicate" of a known creature, like a fire giant for instance, does the duplicate I create retain the memories and knowledge of the original? The spell doesn't explicitly say, but there's logical arguments that it could. Ultimately I realize this might be up to my GM but just looking to see if there's any official rulings or clarifications on this.
Thanks in advance for any insight!
The description of the spell does state that it has half the appropriate skill ranks. That seems to imply that it would have memories. How can you have something with ranks in a knowledge skill that does not remember anything?
But there are some major problems with allowing it to have the memories of the creature it duplicates. First and foremost is the fact that it would allow you to know everything that the original character knows simply by telling them to tell you the information you want. Keep in mind that while simulacrum is a 7th level spell, lesser simulacrum is only a 4th level spell. Having the ability to find out what your enemies are planning at 7th level is way too powerful.
The second thing to consider is that the spell is an illusion. It is semi-real, but it is still an illusion. To make it appear like a specific creature you have to make a disguise roll. If you roll badly enough the duplicate may end up looking like a complete parody of the duplicated creature. This makes it clear you are the one shaping it and giving it substance.
This also calls into question what powers of the original creature the illusion can have. Can a chaotic evil character create a simulacrum of a paladin that has the powers of a paladin, but is totally under the command of the caster? Can a wizard create a simulacrum of another wizard and have the simulacrum teach the casters spells they do not know?
This leads me to conclude that it does not have the memories of the creature. You are not really creating an actual duplicate of the creature. You are creating a solid lasting illusion of the creature. Basically, you are creating a generic creature that resembles the original creature.
It's not official but Mark Seifter did an episode of Arcane Mark about simulacrum that I found helpful.
I would note that knowledge of skills (what a skill rank represents obviously) and explicit incidental memories (e.g. a persons name, specific events, etc.) are distinctly different within people. One type of memory can be damaged and inexplicably lost while the other remains intact (see Clive Wearing for someone with inability to develop new explicit memory but who retains musical skill, and can even use it to escape his short term memory disability).
Personally, I would treat a simulacrum as a completely new creature with no explicit memory besides whatever is given to it (whether that be fabricated or truthful to the real creature), but still all the relevant skill ranks. The simulacrum isn't a real creature, it is just a copy made of snow that behaves very robotically, although it can follow specific and nuanced instruction, while also taking into account any information it is given; it only takes a DC 20 sense motive to notice that it's a simulacrum, or at least not the actual creature.
The way I understand it, the simulacrum has only the memories you provide it… if you make a simulacrum of yourself it can know as little or as much as you wish it to… if you make a simulacrum of someone else it knows as much about them as you do and can emulate their memories based on the details you know or assume to know. As far as the simulacrum is concerned all of its memories are real even if they are 100% inaccurate.
As for healing the simulacrum… nothing in the spell says to treat it as a construct. So yes, healing spells should work fine.
Also, despite what a lot of people seem to think, if you want to make a simulacrum of a specific individual, you absolutely must have the specific material component of a blood sample, nail clipping, strand of hair, or other genetic sample. Priceless =\= negligible price, you won’t find a nail clipping from the evil king in your material component pouch and eschew materials won’t supplement it.
Also, despite what a lot of people seem to think, if you want to make a simulacrum of a specific individual, you absolutely must have the specific material component of a blood sample, nail clipping, strand of hair, or other genetic sample. Priceless =\= negligible price, you won’t find a nail clipping from the evil king in your material component pouch and eschew materials won’t supplement it.
There is no such material component. I believe 3.5 had that listed, but not in Pathfinder (I house rule it back in, but not RAW)
As for healing the simulacrum… nothing in the spell says to treat it as a construct. So yes, healing spells should work fine.
The spell very clearly states it takes 24 hours, a fully equipped laboratory, and 100 gp per hit point to repair a simulacrum, so no, healing spells won't work. (At least according to Archives, I don't have my corebook handy).
Lesser Simulacrums are uncontrolled, regular ones are "under your absolute command." Personality still is a bit touchy as you can still tell it things (that it can ultimately choose to accept or reject, given that it is aware it was created as a false copy), and it is up to the (lesser) simulacrum to decide how it is used. Even the fully controlled simulacrums you don't directly control, so it will decide how it uses information as it carries out your orders, such as behaving like however you described the original creature when you tell it to infiltrate.
Note however it is also still abundantly aware that it is fake. I didn't mean to imply it if I did, but these "given/implanted" memories don't really create a "Blade Runner Replicant" scenario whereby the simulacrum, even greater, doesn't recognize what it really is.
School illusion (shadow); Level sorcerer/wizard 7, summoner 5; Elemental School void 7
CASTING
Casting Time 12 hours
Components V, S, M (ice sculpture of the target plus powdered rubies worth 500 gp per HD of the simulacrum)EFFECT
Range 0 ft.
Effect one duplicate creature
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance noDESCRIPTION
Simulacrum creates an [illusory duplicate of any creature. The duplicate creature is partially real and formed from ice or snow. It appears to be the same as the original, but it has only half of the real creature’s levels or HD (and the appropriate hit points, feats, skill ranks, and special abilities for a creature of that level or HD). You can’t create a simulacrum of a creature whose HD or levels exceed twice your caster level. You must make a Disguise check when you cast the spell to determine how good the likeness is. A creature familiar with the original might detect the ruse with a successful Perception check (opposed by the caster’s Disguise check) or a DC 20 Sense Motive check.
At all times, the simulacrum remains under your absolute command. No special telepathic link exists, so command must be exercised in some other manner. A simulacrum has no ability to become more powerful. It cannot increase its level or abilities. If reduced to 0 hit points or otherwise destroyed, it reverts to snow and melts instantly into nothingness. A complex process requiring at least 24 hours, 100 gp per hit point, and a fully equipped magical laboratory can repair damage to a simulacrum.
Simulacrum Illusion (Shadow)
Link to D&D 3.5E Simulacrum spell (source)
Level: Sor/Wiz 7
Components: V, S, M, XP
Casting time: 12 hours
Range: 0 ft.
Effect: One duplicate creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: NoSimulacrum creates an illusory duplicate of any creature. The duplicate creature is partially real and formed from ice or snow. It appears to be the same as the original, but it has only one-half of the real creature’s levels or Hit Dice (and the appropriate hit points, feats, skill ranks, and special abilities for a creature of that level or HD). You can’t create a simulacrum of a creature whose Hit Dice or levels exceed twice your caster level. You must make a Disguise check when you cast the spell to determine how good the likeness is. A creature familiar with the original might detect the ruse with a successful Spot check (opposed by the caster’s Disguise check) or a DC 20 Sense Motive check.
At all times the simulacrum remains under your absolute command. No special telepathic link exists, so command must be exercised in some other manner. A simulacrum has no ability to become more powerful. It cannot increase its level or abilities. If reduced to 0 hit points or otherwise destroyed, it reverts to snow and melts instantly into nothingness. A complex process requiring at least 24 hours, 100 gp per hit point, and a fully equipped magical laboratory can repair damage to a simulacrum.
Material Component: The spell is cast over the rough snow or ice form, and some piece of the creature to be duplicated (hair, nail, or the like) must be placed inside the snow or ice. Additionally, the spell requires powdered ruby worth 100 gp per HD of the simulacrum to be created.
XP Cost: 100 XP per HD of the simulacrum to be created (minimum 1,000 XP).
Link to D&D 5E Simulacrum spell (source)
You shape an illusory duplicate of one beast or humanoid that is within range for the entire casting time of the spell. The duplicate is a creature, partially real and formed from ice or snow, and it can take actions and otherwise be affected as a normal creature. It appears to be the same as the original, but it has half the creature's hit point maximum and is formed without any equipment. Otherwise, the illusion uses all the statistics of the creature it duplicates, except that it is a construct.
The simulacrum is friendly to you and creatures you designate. It obeys your spoken commands, moving and acting in accordance with your wishes and acting on your turn in combat. The simulacrum lacks the ability to learn or become more powerful, so it never increases its level or other abilities, nor can it regain expended spell slots.
If the simulacrum is damaged, you can repair it in an alchemical laboratory, using rare herbs and minerals worth 100 gp per hit point it regains. The simulacrum lasts until it drops to 0 hit points, at which point it reverts to snow and melts instantly.
If you cast this spell again, any duplicate you created with this spell is instantly destroyed.
The 3.5E and PF version of Simulacrum are identical, so no help there. But....
The D&D 5E version of Simulacrum uses the verbiage "partially real and formed from ice or snow, and it can take actions and otherwise be affected as a normal creature." and "except that it is a construct" (so you can affect it as a normal real creature, and it is also treated as a construct, so it can't be healed -- it has its own repair rules anyway). Contrarily, the PF version of Simulacrum doesn't use any of this verbiage except for "partially real and formed from ice or snow", which is fluff text. Also, both spells indicate that the Simulacrum uses either the same or half feats/HP/stats/skills, etc. <--- To me, this is a dead giveaway that it shares memories; feats/stats/skills is an obvious indication, but a more subtle indication is that the HD/HP of the Simulacrum is based on the original as well. HP is an abstract representation of your character's ability and knowledge to duck, dodge, weave, avoid, mitigate, and weather blows/spells, and otherwise turn haymakers into glancing blows and flesh wounds and continue to fight on either through sheer skill, combat expertise, mental fortitude, and/or physical tenacity, and if this abstract representation is present in the duplicated Simulacrum, that means it knows (remembers) how the original is able to survive and navigate combat. This isn't some Pinocchio creature freshly baked out of the oven.
I'm going to say that if you want to stay true to the PF rules, it is not considered a construct (because they've copy/pasted it from 3.5E's rules, and have purposefully not errata'ed it as a construct to be more like 5E's version -- it is worth noting that PF2E's version of Simulacrum is vastly different and treated entirely like an illusion, even its special abilities "appear" as if anyone affected critically save against the ability). If you want to deviate and do it per D&D 5E as far as whether it's a construct or not, that's perfectly acceptable because it's your game, but just be aware that you're house ruling.
As far as whether it can be healed or not, it depends on whether your DM leans towards "partially-real" or "illusion"-- personally, I'm going to say no it cannot be healed.
Whether it has memories or not is an open and shut case for me, so I'm going to say absolutely yes it does have memories due to basing its HP/feats/stats/skills off of the original (even if it's only half).
As for healing the simulacrum… nothing in the spell says to treat it as a construct. So yes, healing spells should work fine.
The spell very clearly states it takes 24 hours, a fully equipped laboratory, and 100 gp per hit point to repair a simulacrum, so no, healing spells won't work. (At least according to Archives, I don't have my corebook handy).
This is correct, and noted by game designers, Simulacrums cannot be healed by any other means than the lab and repair.
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The big difference between Pathfinder and earlier editions is in the material components:
Material Component: The spell is cast over the rough snow or ice form, and some piece of the creature to be duplicated (hair, nail, or the like) must be placed inside the snow or ice. Additionally, the spell requires powdered ruby worth 100 gp per HD of the simulacrum to be created.
In the earlier editions you had a connection with the original creatures, so a clear reason for the simulacrum to have some of the creature memories. And it was still relatively easy to notice that the simulacrum behavior was odd (DC 20 Sense Motive check) if you did know the original.
Now it is purely an illusion over some snow, without any link to the original.
JJ in one old post did say that they should have created a simulacrum template with Pathfinder, as removing the "some piece of the creature to be duplicated" component has generated a ton of ways to abuse the spell.
RAW is not clear, as the rules don't say anything specific, but in Pathfinder the odd behavior of a simulacrum can be still noticed with a Sense Motive check at a 20 DC, so, for sure, it hasn't a perfect recall of what the original did know.
Personally, I will give it/him/her the ability to know and recall what the creator did know about the original, not what the original did know.
That clashes a bit with the simulacrum having some of the levels of the original, but we can justify that with the Shadow part of the spell, with the spell taking some information about the class and skills the original had from the same place where Shadow spells take information about the working of Evocation or Conjuration spells.
Alternatively, a GM could rule that there is a 50% chance of getting the information you want when making the simulacrum. It becomes a costly way to get the information you want without using a divination spell, as after a few tries you will get it.
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I wonder. What is the deal with making the simulacrum out of snow and ice? Can you make it out of other materials?
Anyways. The more I look into this spell from other editions, the less I feel that devs knew what they were doing with this spell. There were significant changes between editions. Maybe we should redesign this spell.
The simulacrum spell originally was based on the simulacrum of Florimel in "The Mathematics of Magic" by L. Sprague De Camp and Fletcher Pratt. And that was inspired by "The Faerie Qeenie" by Edmund Spenser (no idea if there was a simulacrum in the original book).
Florimel simulacrum had the memories of the original and was made of ice, so we have the original spell. In The Mathematics of Magic the idea of contagious magic and similarity between the form of the components and the form of the final result was a key part of the tale, so we have the need for using a piece of the person to be copied to make the simulacrum.The use of snow and ice probably is because they are easy to work and weigh more or less like a human body, while stone or metal would be harder to work and would weigh way more.
Keeping to those thoughts, wood probably would be suitable, cloth maybe (like a big cloth doll). It is mostly a matter to maintain the idea of the spell, the exact material can vary.