Paizocon 2022 guesses


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion

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The convention is under a month away, so now feels like as good a time as any for baseless speculation! I expect more peeks at known releases more than announcements of new stuff, but I’d love to be wrong - and of course, there’s a lot of fingers crossed for a playtest of some sort!

What do you think we’ll see? What are you hoping for?


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The definitive book of what is in Sarusan. When announcing it, there will also be a new policy announced that Paizo employees will break into your house and shatter your kneecaps if your home game does not explicitly use the lore in this book.


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If I'm waving my magic wand, we see announcements for a late-in-the-year rulebook with an Inquisitor playtest and a Lost Omens: Arcadia (like the World Guide, but for that continent) for next year, but even my boundless optimism doesn't stretch that far.

My more grounded guess is a Lost Omens: The Broken Lands for next year. As much as I wave my pom-poms for leaving the Inner Sea behind, the fact is that Avistan hasn't gotten a shiny new setting book in 2e yet, and I've got a few reasons why I think the Broken Lands rise to the top.

Multiple 2e books have underscored both the imminent civil war in Brevoy and the role of dragons past and future in that land. Mendev, Numeria, and the Sarkoris Scar are some of the lands most shaken up by the events of 1e Adventure Paths, so some follow-up on what they look like now has a ready appeal, as old sources don't really describe them accurately anymore - and the Sarkorians have gotten a lot of love recently, so seeing them given the full player option treatment would be a blast. Razmiran is a uniquely Golarion bad guy, well worthy of some spotlight and potentially causing all sorts of problems with his imminent mortality. The River Kingdoms are a classic, perfect for generic adventure and well-timed to capitalize on Kingmaker nostalgia.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Honestly, I'm not sure if we'll get many new book announcements. I feel like LO: Travel Guide, LO: Impossible Lands, and extensive previews for Dark Archive will be on the table. I doubt we'll get much in terms of new book, unless they decide to announce the next Bestiary-adjacent book ala Book of the Dead. I wonder if it'll be fey or fiend based.

The next hardcover is likely gonna be revealed entirely at Gen Con. And I doubt we'll get another double release like we did with Secrets of Magic and Guns & Gears.


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At PaizoCon 2021 the stuff they revealed for 2022 was Book of the Dead and Quest for the Frozen Flame.

So if the trend keeps up I imagine they'll talk a lot about Dark Archives, Lost Omens: Travel Guide and Impossible Lands and reveal the first rulebook and AP of 2022.


Onkonk wrote:

At PaizoCon 2021 the stuff they revealed for 2022 was Book of the Dead and Quest for the Frozen Flame.

So if the trend keeps up I imagine they'll talk a lot about Dark Archives, Lost Omens: Travel Guide and Impossible Lands and reveal the first rulebook and AP of 2022.

That precedent is super useful, thanks! I looked, but couldn't figure out exactly what had been announced.

Do we think there's another rulebook due out this year, though? It feels like one is missing from the schedule.


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We usually get 3 of them, though there are only the december books left.

They'll probably get announced on the webstore this week, my personal guess would be Friday if we look at when SoT#6 was announced which was April 30.


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Considering the stat of Golarion, I wouldn't be surprised if we have a warfare book on the horizon. Something detailing major conflicts and maybe a Tactician class.


Albatoonoe wrote:
Considering the stat of Golarion, I wouldn't be surprised if we have a warfare book on the horizon. Something detailing major conflicts and maybe a Tactician class.

This was a common theory for the book Dark Archive wound up being, and I honestly think we'll see it someday.


I want a mythic rulebook & playtest announcement . & for lost omens lost omens saga lands lost omens shackles or lost omens golden road would be great as for aps a new osirion ap or a lands of the Linnorm Kings 1-20 ap. new monster book. give me fey next

Wayfinders

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Realistically we'll mostly get information on already-announced releases like Dark Archive, the upcoming LO books and the Blood Lords AP.

That said, I do expect at least one rulebook announcement (alchemy book would be nice!), and a teaser of the first 2023 AP (or two if they're 3-parters) - completely clueless as to what it could be, though. Another 1-10 and 11-20 combo, perhaps?

Probably some non-TTRPG announcements too like more info on the Gale Force 9 board games, some Owlcat cRPG news, the works.
[size=2]Union news would be nice too.[/size]

Wayfinders

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keftiu wrote:

If I'm waving my magic wand, we see announcements for a late-in-the-year rulebook with an Inquisitor playtest and a Lost Omens: Arcadia (like the World Guide, but for that continent) for next year, but even my boundless optimism doesn't stretch that far.

My more grounded guess is a Lost Omens: The Broken Lands for next year. As much as I wave my pom-poms for leaving the Inner Sea behind, the fact is that Avistan hasn't gotten a shiny new setting book in 2e yet, and I've got a few reasons why I think the Broken Lands rise to the top.

Multiple 2e books have underscored both the imminent civil war in Brevoy and the role of dragons past and future in that land. Mendev, Numeria, and the Sarkoris Scar are some of the lands most shaken up by the events of 1e Adventure Paths, so some follow-up on what they look like now has a ready appeal, as old sources don't really describe them accurately anymore - and the Sarkorians have gotten a lot of love recently, so seeing them given the full player option treatment would be a blast. Razmiran is a uniquely Golarion bad guy, well worthy of some spotlight and potentially causing all sorts of problems with his imminent mortality. The River Kingdoms are a classic, perfect for generic adventure and well-timed to capitalize on Kingmaker nostalgia.

I really don't expect it to be announced at PaizoCon, or even GenCon, but out of all the metaregions in Avistan, Broken Lands are really worthy of attention and deserving of a sourcebook (the only other major contenders IMO would be the Eye of Dread and perhaps Saga Lands) - places like Numeria and River Kingdoms in particular are fan favorites (though Numeria in particular is in bad need of dedicated rules to make their high tech work), and it'd be a great segue for people who have played through the Owlcat cRPGs as well.

(Especially if we end up with an Iron Gods adaptation!)


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

If we don't get the next rulebook announcement in the next week on the storefront for a December release, I'm also going to place my bets on a warfare-themed rulebook. Guns & Gears got the ball rolling with siege weapons rules and a lot of player character options involving them, and with the number of larger-sized conflicts going both across the Inner Sea and in adventure paths (Broken Promises, Siege of the Dinosaurs, Secrets of the Temple City, etc), I get the subtle feeling the devs have a few mechanics they've been working on to bring these distinct elements a little closer together, giving them a little more flexibility for future scenarios. Doubt they'd just drop siege weapons rules into the system and be done with them, at any rate.

Hope just a little more we get a book involving seafaring and a more modular vehicle construction and upgrading system. Although I'd be excited to see any rulebook introducing new subsystems or expanding existing ones.

On the Lost Omens end of the spectrum, Broken Lands would also go nicely with a warfare-themed rulebook, methinks.


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Part of me thinks there's a chance we will see the two core rulebooks this year, not three. Last year was a pretty turbulent time for paizo, and included with it was a promise to treat employees better and have less crunch time. Not to mention some pretty important people leaving the company.

Liberty's Edge

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IDK, like... some kind of Martial Role focused book. We got SoM and BotD so close to each other as a sort of general magic user splat book plus a laser-focused one so I figure that they might pair G&G as the Martial laser-focused book and pair it with a more generally applicable one.

Maybe?


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
keftiu wrote:
Razmiran is a uniquely Golarion bad guy, well worthy of some spotlight and potentially causing all sorts of problems with his imminent mortality.

Mortality?! Heretic!

Silver Crusade

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Him dying and yakity sax kicking in as his priests scramble to maintain control would be an awesome setup for an adventure.


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Rysky wrote:
Him dying and yakity sax kicking in as his priests scramble to maintain control would be an awesome setup for an adventure.

Yes! Razmiran has been pretty inert since it was introduced, and seeing what comes out of the chaos once he kicks the bucket feels like the most interesting thing to do with the place - and doubly so if believers start receiving divine magic afterwards...


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keftiu wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Him dying and yakity sax kicking in as his priests scramble to maintain control would be an awesome setup for an adventure.
Yes! Razmiran has been pretty inert since it was introduced, and seeing what comes out of the chaos once he kicks the bucket feels like the most interesting thing to do with the place - and doubly so if believers start receiving divine magic afterwards...

Heir of the Living God would be pretty awesome name for an adventure path...


Ventnor wrote:
keftiu wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Him dying and yakity sax kicking in as his priests scramble to maintain control would be an awesome setup for an adventure.
Yes! Razmiran has been pretty inert since it was introduced, and seeing what comes out of the chaos once he kicks the bucket feels like the most interesting thing to do with the place - and doubly so if believers start receiving divine magic afterwards...
Heir of the Living God would be pretty awesome name for an adventure path...

It feels more like an Adventure (like Night of the Gray Death) than an AP to me, personally. Maaaybe a 1-10 at a stretch, but I don't know if it has enough meat for that.

Dark Archive

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Crazy guesses?

FINALLY the Casmaron book ;P

(yeah Arcadia book is more likely at this point xD Or Southern Garund. Casmaron has feature of "they haven't even teased new nations there like with Arcadia and Garund" problemo)


CorvusMask wrote:

Crazy guesses?

FINALLY the Casmaron book ;P

(yeah Arcadia book is more likely at this point xD Or Southern Garund. Casmaron has feature of "they haven't even teased new nations there like with Arcadia and Garund" problemo)

Yeah, basically all we have is Kelesh, Vudra, and some places that only exist as ruins now. I'd love to know what's going on with the non-Qadira satrapies, and what's going on with the non-humans of the region. But it doesn't even seem to be on the radar, and I think the Golden Road needs a /lot/ of TLC before we head to Casmaron proper.

We've had a couple new Southern Garund hints in 2e, and the Holomog backmatter coming in Blood Lords is exciting... but I'm still crossing my fingers for Arcadia.

Wayfinders

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For Casmaron we also know of Iobaria, Karazh and Kaladay, but yeah, it's pretty loose right now.

Liberty's Edge

Isn't Razmir currently in Absalom, waiting for the right moment to take the test of the Starstone ?


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The Raven Black wrote:
Isn't Razmir currently in Absalom, waiting for the right moment to take the test of the Starstone ?

Ah yeah, that's true! Or well, at least that's the (very likely) theory going around.

Honestly! I don't know. I really like keftiu's hook, of his followers suddenly gaining divine powers after he kicks the bucket; so I'm very open to a possibility like that... But Razmir has always been such a charming villain of the setting. Sending him to meet Pharasma after never actually having him do anything... I dunno.

As for my guesses: With Knights of Lastwall coming out, I'm guessing that the next adventure is going to be related to them. Really, with what I've seen from the preview, the book seems surpisingly flexible! Does anyone know if the book is written from the POV of someone?

Just a little tangent on the writeup of a certain goddess:
Iomedae's section came out as particularly severe to me. Reminded me of Geb talking about Pharasma on the Book of Dead a little bit? But maybe that was just my impression...

As far as books on regions go, hmmm. So far we've gotten an entire, beautiful book on the Mwangi Expanse and we're getting another probably similarly beautiful book on the Impossibe Lands. I think that they're either going to keep doubling down on the most non-fantasy traditional places, or either focus on one again.

So my bets are either on LO: Golden Road, or LO: Saga Lands. I'd love if they came out with LO: Broken Lands tbh! But, with no support of high-tech stuff on sight, I'm not sure they'd release a book with Numeria... And they did came ou with both Guns & Gears and an adventure set on Alkenstar before announcing LO: Impossibe Lands. (Which, decidedly, doesn't say much, but it could be a pattern!)

And while I have never been the craziest fan of Varisia, I know that many people have lots of love and nostalgia for it, including plenty of the devs. It seems like the most natural region to revisit, if they want to splash some traditional western fantasy on their LO line again. Though alternatively, I'd love to take a look at the Eye of the Dread — so many things happening there!


A plan to release errata more frequently would probably be the thing I'd want the most, given the huge amount of unresolved stuff which could really use a clear answer ( I am also talking about what was discussed by devs on YouTube videos).

But it's more likely to happen that a numerian book is going to be released within the next year.


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber
Gaulin wrote:
Part of me thinks there's a chance we will see the two core rulebooks this year, not three. Last year was a pretty turbulent time for paizo, and included with it was a promise to treat employees better and have less crunch time. Not to mention some pretty important people leaving the company.

I think this is pretty likely.

I doubt they’ll move to 2 rulebooks a year permanently, but them doing 2 *this* year would not be surprising at all.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Not really a guess but I am going to continue trying to will a Vudra book into existence.


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Squiggit wrote:
Not really a guess but I am going to continue trying to will a Vudra book into existence.

That area with all the aberrations is /super/ cool.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I suspect we'll see a playtest announced for a new book with classes, although I'm not sure what the release window would be, and maybe another bestiary style release announced. I wouldn't be shocked if we know what ancestries are coming in Impossible Lands by the end either.

The alternative to the playtest, is if they announce a major player options release with no new classes.

I am revved the hell up to find out what some of the things various designers have teased we're going to see, something about another book that'll "radically" expand the play styles and character options available, which I know is kind of like a regular thing with this game but it still gets me going like xmas morning.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
The-Magic-Sword wrote:
I am revved the hell up to find out what some of the things various designers have teased we're going to see, something about another book that'll "radically" expand the play styles and character options available, which I know is kind of like a regular thing with this game but it still gets me going like xmas morning.

Where was this teased?


A Saga Lands book would see me becoming pretty scarce that year; there's just nothing there for me.

Liberty's Edge

keftiu wrote:
A Saga Lands book would see me becoming pretty scarce that year; there's just nothing there for me.

I am sure Paizo can astound us even there.


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The Raven Black wrote:
keftiu wrote:
A Saga Lands book would see me becoming pretty scarce that year; there's just nothing there for me.
I am sure Paizo can astound us even there.

Ehhh. I have full confidence such a book would be good, but the odds of there being much of anything I care about.

I wasn't around for 1e, so Varisia and New Thassilon have no nostalgia value, and don't really grab me on their own merits - though my first forum thread here was about my frustrations with Varisians, so I suppose seeing them in depth might be nice. Grey Maiden stuff would be the only real appeal, personally.

Fantasy Norse stuff has been pretty well saturated over the last few years (the God of War reboot, Kaldheim in M:tG, Valheim blowing up, etc), and I've always bounced off of it because of how many neo-Nazis are drawn to that space, so the Land of the Linnorn Kings is out. The Realm of the Mammoth Lords is /fine/, but I got what I needed with Quest for the Frozen Flame. That leaves Irrisen, which... shrug? It's never felt like much more to me than "Winter Land."

I don't begrudge anyone who loves the region, but like I said - I'd be pretty out of luck.


The-Magic-Sword wrote:

I suspect we'll see a playtest announced for a new book with classes, although I'm not sure what the release window would be, and maybe another bestiary style release announced. I wouldn't be shocked if we know what ancestries are coming in Impossible Lands by the end either.

The alternative to the playtest, is if they announce a major player options release with no new classes.

I am revved the hell up to find out what some of the things various designers have teased we're going to see, something about another book that'll "radically" expand the play styles and character options available, which I know is kind of like a regular thing with this game but it still gets me going like xmas morning.

please be a tease for mythic rules please be a tease for mythic rules please be a tease for mythic rules!


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I do like vikings and norse-inspired fantasy, even though it's not something that I'm absolutely crazy about. If a Saga Lands book does come out, I think I'd be pretty excited for that and general Ulfen info, and probably a deeper look at the Shoanti. Concerning the latter, I'm very curious at how they're handling the rise of New Thassilon, considering their past with the Thassilonians of old (are they even aware of it?).

I also don't think, despite agreeing that norse-fantasy has been something pretty popular, that there's any... I don't know, any big or relevant norse-inspired place within the ttrpg scene, is there? Like, somewhere very famous. In fact, I think there's not a big or relevant norse-inspired ttrpg itself at all. Something to consider!

There's also no big greek-inspired place within the RPG scene as well, Paizo. Something for you guys to consider. Oh, if only you had the perfect place to explore for that... A place that starts with I, and ends with blydos. I guess that place would need to have an iconic ancestry pertaining to a mythological creature, huh? Like... I dunno, descendents of Medusas. Oh well, something to dream about.

(I know that Glorantha is considered pretty hellenistic, don't ruin my pitch here).

Edit: Do you guys also know what place would be perfect to feature mythic rules with? I certainly don't, cough cough.


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Travelling Sasha wrote:

Edit: Do you guys also know what place would be perfect to feature mythic rules with? I certainly don't, cough cough.

Okay, I am just going to say it: It's Iblydos. Iblydos would be a great place to introduce mythic rules with.


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I'm not trying to yuck anyone's yum but personally don't really get the want for mythic rules. We have a hard enough time getting aps that go to twentieth level, support for after twenty is going to be way harder to get ahold of, I would think.

If anything a high level book would be enough, I would think, with more high level skill and class feats. Although if that's what people mean by mythic then I am also on board.


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber

You're confusing "Mythic" with "Epic".

Mythic wasn't strictly post-20 content in PF1. It can effectively push your character past the power levels of a normal 20th level character, but that's not necessarily the only thing that can be done with it.

I see mythic as a way to allow for the kinds of PF1 characters that would break the math in PF2, for tables that want to see that kind of play. Making it an optional, variant style would allow the default game to still exist while allowing powergamer tables new toys to play with.

Dark Archive

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keftiu wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:
keftiu wrote:
A Saga Lands book would see me becoming pretty scarce that year; there's just nothing there for me.
I am sure Paizo can astound us even there.

Ehhh. I have full confidence such a book would be good, but the odds of there being much of anything I care about.

I wasn't around for 1e, so Varisia and New Thassilon have no nostalgia value, and don't really grab me on their own merits - though my first forum thread here was about my frustrations with Varisians, so I suppose seeing them in depth might be nice. Grey Maiden stuff would be the only real appeal, personally.

Fantasy Norse stuff has been pretty well saturated over the last few years (the God of War reboot, Kaldheim in M:tG, Valheim blowing up, etc), and I've always bounced off of it because of how many neo-Nazis are drawn to that space, so the Land of the Linnorn Kings is out. The Realm of the Mammoth Lords is /fine/, but I got what I needed with Quest for the Frozen Flame. That leaves Irrisen, which... shrug? It's never felt like much more to me than "Winter Land."

I don't begrudge anyone who loves the region, but like I said - I'd be pretty out of luck.

Irrisen is specifically "classic russian fairy tale" land.

But hey as someone from a nordic country that has no vikings, I'm still offended by notion that all fantasy nordic country material is neo-nazi stuff ;P (that and its not like northern mythology is only the viking stuff... Kinda feel like people ignore there are other options than "norse" and "slavic")

(but yeah weird thing about viking fantasy is that there is popular example of it in every media except tabletop rpgs)


Yeah, I'm personally not interested in explicit post-20th level content at all. Honestly, I'm not sure what I want from it, aside that I really want it haha — and I don't love the idea of it being a post-20th level thing.

I dunno, I like Paizo doing their own stuff, their own way — like their reimagining of ancestries. Free Archetypes sound like a very easy way to to configure mythic archetypes into the game although, to be honest, the idea of them being balanced with existing content sounds a little off. A player choosing Dual Weapon Warrior instead of Ultra Mythic Warrior at level 2 because they get double slice sounds a little unintentially funny. I know a lot of people are not into the idea of mythic messing with the game's math, but the idea of turning mythic tiers into a mythic proficiency bonus does sound cool and easy to balance around. Though, who knows! "Mythic feats" kind of already exist to an extent, since most high level (skill, I guess) feats are already pretty epic in flavour, so I'm not sure what they could do there.

Hopefully we will actually get to playtest it first.

But getting back to topic: I know that the Knights of Lastwall are not technically from Lastwall anymore, but if we were to try to see it as a hint to the next metaregion that is going to be released after Impossible Lands... Maybe the Eye of the Dread isn't that far away at all!

Plus, I'm so very sure that people love gothic fantasy (or well, people seem to like Ravenloft a lot at least), it always came off as interesting that Ustalav wasn't more prominent.

Dark Archive

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Note that I want 2e mythic for both "epic demigod final boss" games and for "lower level super heroics games where players can do some really gonzo over powerful stuff".

(since lets face it almost all of 2e content so far works on level of plausibility where only legendary skill feats allow for some really weird laws of physics breaking stuff. You can't do things like running through walls juggernaut style in this game yet or throw massive boulders xD)


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber
Travelling Sasha wrote:
I dunno, I like Paizo doing their own stuff, their own way — like their reimagining of ancestries. Free Archetypes sound like a very easy way to to configure mythic archetypes into the game although, to be honest, the idea of them being balanced with existing content sounds a little off.

To be clear, what I was describing would be explicitly NOT balanced with existing content. It would have to be balanced against itself, but the point would largely be to unbalance a certain amount of content that can be reigned in by the Mythic tag.

Edit: although so as to better integrate with existing content, I think if I was writing this it would indeed be a variation of Free Archetype, but one that is tied to your ODD levels instead of even. That would allow this to exist alongside Free Archetype seamlessly.

Hmm, this might even be considered a variant on Dual Class, I suppose. Which would be an interesting interpretation of how it was done in PF1.


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They've said we won't see Iblydos until we get Mythic... so I want Mythic for that, at least.


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keftiu wrote:
They've said we won't see Iblydos until we get Mythic... so I want Mythic for that, at least.

Could be a great place to (re?)introduce some classical thematic ancestries, too. Cyclops, merfolk, minotaurs, centaurs, harpies... I'm not even sure if all of them are supposed to be a big deal on Iblydos but hey, there is a lot of options.


Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

With the new math for PF2 you could do level 20+ content especially as stand alone adventures (not added to an AP). I am definitely pro fighting Spawn of Rovagug in the Pit of Gormuz for example.


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My preferred take on Mythic would be as a *separate* Archetype slot, enabling you to take one alongside all your other options potentially from level 1. I’m not at all interested in post-20 content.

Travelling Sasha wrote:
keftiu wrote:
They've said we won't see Iblydos until we get Mythic... so I want Mythic for that, at least.
Could be a great place to (re?)introduce some classical thematic ancestries, too. Cyclops, merfolk, minotaurs, centaurs, harpies... I'm not even sure if all of them are supposed to be a big deal on Iblydos but hey, there is a lot of options.

Minotaurs are one of my most-wanted ancestries! The wait for them is killing me; they were in 4e’s third PHB.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Opsylum wrote:
The-Magic-Sword wrote:
I am revved the hell up to find out what some of the things various designers have teased we're going to see, something about another book that'll "radically" expand the play styles and character options available, which I know is kind of like a regular thing with this game but it still gets me going like xmas morning.
Where was this teased?

I was paraphrasing this one this one It says option, rather than character options, but the bit about the 'books we haven't even announced yet'


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Well, the product page for the last part of the Blood Lords AP just went up on the Paizo store, so it's very likely we'll hear about the next AP series at PaizoCon next month.

Guessing they're gonna stick with the 2 3-part APs in the first half of the year and then a 6-part AP for the back half. I just hope this time we get another 11-20 AP like FotRP.


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Ezekieru wrote:

Well, the product page for the last part of the Blood Lords AP just went up on the Paizo store, so it's very likely we'll hear about the next AP series at PaizoCon next month.

Guessing they're gonna stick with the 2 3-part APs in the first half of the year and then a 6-part AP for the back half. I just hope this time we get another 11-20 AP like FotRP.

I’d love another 11-20, especially if it was a planar adventure; 2e hasn’t touched on that space much at all yet.

I’m hoping against hope that we see a 1-10 set outside of the Inner Sea as well, something a little more grounded in whatever local culture than Ruby Phoenix was. Feels like a lower-risk way to flesh out a niche region than a full hardcover treatment or six volume run.

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