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***This is going to be a long recruitment -- at least 3-4 weeks -- both because of the complexity of builds and because I need to finish my nursing school semester (done early May) before I'll have time to put all the material together.***
This is a recruitment for one of the games proposed in This thread. The prompt I am working from is as follows:
Please Lore Hold Much like the above ‘game world’, this is a pretty broad idea. In fact, this could easily be combined with one or more of the above, as the main concept is to play in a lore *heavy* game in one of the various established settings: Forgotten Realms/Faerun, Golarion, Eberron, or Ravenloft would be my primary choices. Followed by Sigil/Planescape(if chosen, this doesn’t *have* to involve planes hopping like the actual planar game), Greyhawk/Oreth or Dark Sun/Athas.
I want to be able to dive deep into the lore and history of the setting, interact with famous(though not necessarily powerful) NPCs, quest in legendary locations, etc.
This is a concept for a Forgotten Realms campaign in a distant age of the Realms -- instead of the modern period, the campaign takes place during the time of Elminster's Youth in the Kingdom of Athalantar. This period is also contemporary with the golden age of Myth Drannor. The elves are still powerful but are beginning to be encroached by the humans, the human civilization exists in the shadow of the fall of Netheril and is much more limited than in the modern era of the 2e/3e box sets. The players will be great heroes of the era who will escort/teach/advise/guide the young Elminster, who will be much lower level than they are at this point in time.
There is a great dragon magazine article that gives more information on this time period and context: Dragon Magazine 228.
The build rules would basically be everything and the kitchen sink except for mythic PF1e:
Basic concept for build rules: (I'll update this and place the final version on the campaign page when all additional questions have been resolved).
Ability scores: straight 18s, move the points up and down on a 1-1 basis as you choose -- i.e., move one up to 19, another down to 17, etc.
Classes:
Quadralt (4 classes), level 18.
All 3pp. allowed.
Legendary games or Samurai S-series or Rogue Genius Talented-X series of classes will replace all the base Paizo classes. This isn't a technological setting, so any tech based class will have to have a story to explain that -- a character from the Spelljammer setting crashed on Faerun, for example.
Races: 41rp and/or some kind of template allowance.
Skills: all classes get + 2 skills per level
Health -- maximum or double maximum, I need to see where the totals come out before deciding.
Feats:
1 per level
Stamina and combat tricks and skill unlock feats for free
Elephant in the playground feat tax rules (pdf)
We can use some of the rogue genius ridiculous overpowered feats, but I don't want to give a blanket approval -- we'll have to remove a few like the one that lets you always go first in combat no matter what.
Equipment: 1 million gp. Pregame crafting fine.
Traits: 2 and another with a drawback. You can refluff Paizo stuff.
Additional: hero points, artesia, and some kind of abp/oath system
That's all I can think of for now -- the kind of character you should be thinking of is an archmage, like a rebel mage lord of Athalantar, a Elven prince, a high priest of Mystra, or some other significant figure. These are going to be some of the most powerful heroes of the age. Evil characters aren't going to be great for this campaign concept.
The campaign would consist of high level exploits around Athalantar -- Netherese ruins, as well as battles with the mage lords.
This is going to be a lore-heavy game; the point is the 'ooo' factor of, for example, encountering the early form of the Harpers in Myth Drannor, visiting Myth Drannor at its height, and hanging out with a young Elminster and Mystra in a human guise. To really appreciate this game, you need to be kind of a realms-head, or be willing to do a lot of reading before starting. This isn't going to be the 5e realms where there's nothing outside the Sword Coast and not much detail -- I'm going to be digging deep into the lore in the posts and campaign presentation.
I like to do a lot of stuff with maps and handouts and prefer Astral VTT because I have a lot of stuff uploaded to it and know how to use it. I may try to use a lot of isomorphic maps for this. Anyway, you should be comfortable learning how to use a VTT (it's not hard) for the battlemaps.
You already know I am hella super interested in this game!!
For those of you who are either new to Seb's games, or have been around for his recruitments before, I'll be taking over the recruitment process, as well as handling most/all rules questions. Which, if you read over my post Seb linked to my interest check, is something I offered for all of these games(Regardless of GM).
Let's hammer out a few more details(These are things Seb has used in his games before):
1) Any sort of free archetypes?
2) 1 feat per level, 1 feat per side(4/level)?, some other combination(like maybe 1 feat per lvl 'main class' and then half or quarter for the others?)
3) RAW, a character can only benefit from 10 oath points. Do you want to either do away with that cap, or just not use them, and go with ABP?
4) Since we're playing in a sort of mythic age, and we're very powerful characters, what are you thoughts on each of us having an artifact or two? Obviously with GM approval, and perhaps limited in selection, but I feel it would be fairly fitting.
You already know I am hella super interested in this game!!
For those of you who are either new to Seb's games, or have been around for his recruitments before, I'll be taking over the recruitment process, as well as handling most/all rules questions. Which, if you read over my post Seb linked to my interest check, is something I offered for all of these games(Regardless of GM).
Let's hammer out a few more details(These are things Seb has used in his games before):
1) Any sort of free archetypes?
2) 1 feat per level, 1 feat per side(4/level)?, some other combination(like maybe 1 feat per lvl 'main class' and then half or quarter for the others?)
3) RAW, a character can only benefit from 10 oath points. Do you want to either do away with that cap, or just not use them, and go with ABP?
4) Since we're playing in a sort of mythic age, and we're very powerful characters, what are you thoughts on each of us having an artifact or two? Obviously with GM approval, and perhaps limited in selection, but I feel it would be fairly fitting.
1) Do you think we need that in addition to 4 classes? There is some point in the action economy where having twice as many abilities is purposeless.
2) How many do you think we need to make builds viable? I feel like at some point you're just picking stuff to fill out quotas, and you don't really need it.3) Maybe 10 oathpoints and ABP, I have to look at the bonuses again.
4) I'm okay with artifacts -- try to tie them into the Realms Lore -- like you have Karsus' wand or one of Ioun's ioun stones, or something like that.
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You guys weren't kidding when you said overpowered!
I like how you chose FR as the basis for lore! Big fan of Drizzt Do'Urden here, like many other people in the forums I assume :)
Are the godling classes allowed? I know you said all third party, but just thought I'd ask.
Also, you mention mythic - but does it mean mythic tiers as well? Should we think about it on the characters?
Do the race have to be a high race-point one? I mean, everything else is already so "beyonder" that I wondered if it'd be okay to play at least a less powered race. Still debating though.
What are the limits (up and down) for the attributes?
Thanks for running this, Seb! I hope it's okay for a newbie on the forums (but very used to PF1 - usually on the GM seat) to apply.
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You guys weren't kidding when you said overpowered!
I like how you chose FR as the basis for lore! Big fan of Drizzt Do'Urden here, like many other people in the forums I assume :)
Are the godling classes allowed? I know you said all third party, but just thought I'd ask.
Also, you mention mythic - but does it mean mythic tiers as well? Should we think about it on the characters?
Do the race have to be a high race-point one? I mean, everything else is already so "beyonder" that I wondered if it'd be okay to play at least a less powered race. Still debating though.
What are the limits (up and down) for the attributes?
Thanks for running this, Seb! I hope it's okay for a newbie on the forums (but very used to PF1 - usually on the GM seat) to apply.
godling is fine
I mentioned 'everything BUT mythic' -- so no mythic, but everything else basically for power level. Honestly, with the overpowered feats I don't think it will be an appreciable difference -- this is like level 72 characters basically.For monsters, you're going to be fighting stuff like colossal half red/half blue 18 headed dire/fiendish/advanced greater basiliks with multiple tails and arms.
I'm not decided on race yet -- I want to get a better sense of what people want to play -- sometimes I run where you get all racial feats for free that you qualify for, but that only works for a more limited range of races. I'm also open to giving some extra RP points or templates.
I was imagining you could have basically up to 60 -- that's as high as the generators I use for stuff go, and I don't want characters to be like double that probably.
I was imagining you could have basically up to 60 -- that's as high as the generators I use for stuff go, and I don't want characters to be like double that probably.
What generators do you use? With this kind of building, we've gone beyond the common tools. Is this just for races, or part of a larger character builder?
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https://dinglesgames.com/tools/pathfinder-encounter-generator
http://www.monsteradvancer.com
I use one to advance creatures by HD to like x10 there normal amount and increase size category, and a combination of the 2 to add templates and increase stats and number of attacks. Between the two, you can quickly pump out a lot of stat blocks.
Oh man, stealing the links for my in-person games :)
I assume we're a good (alignment-wise) party since we'd be mentoring Elminster, or maybe serving as examples for him in Athalantar. I'm writing some background based on the details above, and was wondering if it'd be okay to be like a "reformed evil" type of character; someone repenting from his past sins and working to be better.
hm... maybe a Netherese spherecaster who avoided the crash by locking himself away into in item. As the weave was tearing, he wrapped his soul into one of the scraps and bound it into an object. Unfortunately, he wasn't able to release himself until the item was rediscovered.
He still doesn't have a body, so he rides along with willing people and possess enemies.
He'll have Wraith (unbodied) and probably Soul Weaver. Thinking about the rest of the build.
Remember, possession is 9/10ths of the loa. And Ti-i-ime is on my side, yes it is.
Oh man, stealing the links for my in-person games :)
I assume we're a good (alignment-wise) party since we'd be mentoring Elminster, or maybe serving as examples for him in Athalantar. I'm writing some background based on the details above, and was wondering if it'd be okay to be like a "reformed evil" type of character; someone repenting from his past sins and working to be better.
Yes, your role is to provide a model to Elminster. Also, evil is going to complicate my idea for the campaign too much. One campaign goal is facing down the super powerful mage lords of Athalantar, including the Mage Royal, and that just isn't the same if you're evil characters trying to displace them. My idea is a heroic clash where you overturn their tyranny.
I think reformed evil would work -- I listed a rebel mage lord as a possible character. An archmage that decided to no longer participate in the tyranny of the mage lords, for example.
Also, Elminster's traveling companion in his young life, according to canon, was Mystra in a human form -- so if you're evil she's just going to destroy you at some point, it makes no sense she'd tolerate that and she'll be in the story too.
You can definitely be LN, or N, or CN as long as the last isn't disruptive, I just don't see how evil except maybe a very honorable/order-focused LE would work with this campaign concept.
Well, I was very much thinking about NG or CG - someone who was evil but turned to good years ago. I’m adapting some things from old FR novels honestly, hence why I thought about it :) Mystra could be the one that helped him atone and guided the character to the light (especially since I’m thinking on making him like an Eldritch Godling). The character wouldn’t know that she’s in fact there with Elminster to pick him as one of her chosen, maybe the character just knows it was a goddess that helped him repent and find the good ways.
I haven't figured out what classes yet, but I am leaning likely towards some sort of elf for my race.
I might build a Samwise for this. Not sure precisely what that will look like, but they will be loyal, and kind, and in over their head but refusing to drown.
Can you build your own race using the points system or just a race that falls within that amount?
These aren't final rules yet, they're proposals we're discussing -- the options are to use races as they are, have some kind of RP economy to use, or have some kind of template allowance, or some combination of these.
This reminds me of the game where the GM let me play a sharn. That game was not intended to be ridiculously overpowered. The succubus and I were, the pixie and gnoll were sadly underpowered.
But a sharn wouldn't make much sense in this game.
*******
As for RP vs templates. Perhaps 41 pts, but you can trade RP for templates at +1 CR/10 rp. So a core race with a +3 template all the way to a 41pt race with no template. That's somewhat balanced and gives plenty of options.
********
What year is this game going to be set in?
This reminds me of the game where the GM let me play a sharn. That game was not intended to be ridiculously overpowered. The succubus and I were, the pixie and gnoll were sadly underpowered.
But a sharn wouldn't make much sense in this game.
*******
As for RP vs templates. Perhaps 41 pts, but you can trade RP for templates at +1 CR/10 rp. So a core race with a +3 template all the way to a 41pt race with no template. That's somewhat balanced and gives plenty of options.
********
What year is this game going to be set in?
We're starting in 228 DR, when elminster is operating as an outlaw on the edges of Athalantar
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I was considering doing a Tannim dragon from In the Company of Dragons. For classes I was thinking the Dragon class that comes In the Company of Dragons, Oracle, Sorcerer and Paladin.
I think at 18th level I would be huge, but I would have some abilities to turn into a humanoid or something else when being huge is to big an inconvenience.
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Are Paizo base classes available? The initial post suggested not.
We're gonna be using the Legendary Classes from Legendary Games, as they are just better, and more fun!
Some thoughts:
It might be a good idea for everyone to pick a primary class, which determines their BAB, saves, skill points per level, HD, etc. The other 3 classes just grant their class features(including spellcasting, and all variations thereof).
I think doing it this way makes tristalt+ characters far more manageable, especially since with 3 or more classes you could easily get the best for everything.
If we go this route, maybe the primary class gets a free archetype?
I also like how GrinningJest3r handled bonus feats for his tristalt game: The primary class gets 1 feat per level, while the secondary ones get 1 bonus every other level.
As for races, since this is a lore rich game set in Forgotten Realms past, I think it probably makes sense to limit races to official published ones that have established presences and histories. Ie, no fully custom races, though due to the setting having a variety of sub races, you could create one of those.
I think 41 or so race points for both a custom sub race and boosting an existing race should be fine.
For templates, I honestly think giving each PC a free +1 or +2 template(work with me on approval) would be alright. With the ban on evil PCs, the most problematic templates(mostly the undead, and the fiendish ones) are disallowed.
ABP at our level or a level or two above is reasonable, along with maybe 15 free oath points, which stack with any actual oaths you take? This would be in addition to the 1 million gold from the OP. After all, we're supposed be fairly legendary PCs.
It sounds truly awesome - honestly it’s strong, but action economy still hurts (especially if we avoid cohorts and summons).
Some thoughts:
It might be a good idea for everyone to pick a primary class, which determines their BAB, saves, skill points per level, HD, etc. The other 3 classes just grant their class features(including spellcasting, and all variations thereof).
I think doing it this way makes tristalt+ characters far more manageable, especially since with 3 or more classes you could easily get the best for everything.
If we go this route, maybe the primary class gets a free archetype?
I also like how GrinningJest3r handled bonus feats for his tristalt game: The primary class gets 1 feat per level, while the secondary ones get 1 bonus every other level.
As for races, since this is a lore rich game set in Forgotten Realms past, I think it probably makes sense to limit races to official published ones that have established presences and histories. Ie, no fully custom races, though due to the setting having a variety of sub races, you could create one of those.
I think 41 or so race points for both a custom sub race and boosting an existing race should be fine.
For templates, I honestly think giving each PC a free +1 or +2 template(work with me on approval) would be alright. With the ban on evil PCs, the most problematic templates(mostly the undead, and the fiendish ones) are disallowed.
ABP at our level or a level or two above is reasonable, along with maybe 15 free oath points, which stack with any actual oaths you take? This would be in addition to the 1 million gold from the OP. After all, we're supposed be fairly legendary PCs.
One race format I've used for other games is you get all racial feats you qualify for for free -- however, that only really works with a curated list b/c the amount of feats for core vs. unusual races is so divergent. I like some of the other ideas, I need to sort through them --
For classes,
How about this -- you pick a core class -- that class is one of the main Paizo classes, and it is gestalted with an alternative version of that class -- legendary games, rogue genius, samurai sheepdog, etc. That class gets a free archetype. You also get a certain number of those rogue genius over powered feats that give you either spellcasting or class features from other classes.
And it should be truly awesome -- the idea is that you're one of the greatest heroes -- the Elmister or Drizzt of ancient Faerun who is a tutor and guide for the young mage of shadowdale.
Some thoughts:
It might be a good idea for everyone to pick a primary class, which determines their BAB, saves, skill points per level, HD, etc. The other 3 classes just grant their class features(including spellcasting, and all variations thereof).
This sounds really good. It helps avoid the "What class fits that has a good fort save?" issue.
If we go this route, maybe the primary class gets a free archetype?
I'm not sure what this means. Does that mean we get the benefits of the archetype without losing the things it takes away?
I also like how GrinningJest3r handled bonus feats for his tristalt game: The primary class gets 1 feat per level, while the secondary ones get 1 bonus every other level.
This gets my vote. It's enough to fill the needs of specific classes, and have some to play with without going totally overboard.
As for races, since this is a lore rich game set in Forgotten Realms past, I think it probably makes sense to limit races to official published ones that have established presences and histories.
I think 41 or so race points for both a custom sub race and boosting an existing race should be fine.
I'm happy with this. 41 points is a lot to work with.
For templates, I honestly think giving each PC a free +1 or +2 template(work with me on approval) would be alright. With the ban on evil PCs, the most problematic templates(mostly the undead, and the fiendish ones) are disallowed.
I have one in mind for one version of my concept and I can think of another.
ABP at our level or a level or two above is reasonable, along with maybe 15 free oath points, which stack with any actual oaths you take? This would be in addition to the 1 million gold from the OP. After all, we're supposed be fairly legendary PCs.
So we get 15 points of boons with no oaths? Yowza!
I think I'm going to withdraw interest. Best of luck everyone!
One race format I've used for other games is you get all racial feats you qualify for for free -- however, that only really works with a curated list b/c the amount of feats for core vs. unusual races is so divergent. I like some of the other ideas, I need to sort through them --
As you say, this varies a lot. And the further you get from core races, the more it drops. Perhaps it should be "You get X racial feats for free. If there aren't X feats available, you get the rest as bonus feats."
For classes,
How about this -- you pick a core class -- that class is one of the main Paizo classes, and it is gestalted with an alternative...
This is also one where some people will get bunch of options and others will get very little. I'm still not clear what a "free archetype" is in PF1. If it means you get all of the benefits without losing the other class features, then once again, it's something that will give lots to some archetypes and very little to another. Though it could be useful to take two archetypes that normally conflict.
Just checking in, letting you all know that Seb is currently in the middle of finals. I believe he still intends to run this, but will probably need at least a few more weeks.
One idea I had to keep with the legendary PCs concept, is that each character be required to take one of the Godling classes as 1/4th of their quadstalt.
Maybe not as an actual child of a god(s), but perhaps a few generations removed.
If the group likes this idea, and Seb approves it as well, I have some ideas on how to boost up the overall power and versatility of the classes.
Thanks for the heads up.
I'm not sure if Godling makes sense for the two sub-concepts I have in mind. I could work it in, but is it needed with all of the other modifications we have?
Thanks for the heads up.
I'm not sure if Godling makes sense for the two sub-concepts I have in mind. I could work it in, but is it needed with all of the other modifications we have?
Are any of these crazy ass rules really needed? lol
I thought it would be a really cool way to help deeply tie each PC to the lore of the setting(since this is based on my lore dive game concept). Being directly related to the gods is fairly dripping with flavor, lol
As for how it would fit your concepts couple things:
1) There's 4 different godlings, including the uber caster Eldritch one. Wasn't one of your ideas a Netherese survivor? Being able to manipulate magic, and thus the Weave, like an Eldritch godling can seems pretty Netherese to me.
2) What if your divine 'parent' was Karsus? Some bizarre backlash from his spell merged a piece of his soul into yours, thus granting you the minor divinity that is a godling?
Yeah, Eldritch Godling is the one I was going for too!
I'm not familiar with the godlings. Do they work with spherecasting? I was thinking of that for my main classes.
I'm exploring two ways of going with my Netherese caster, but it wasn't Karsus I was look at as a father. I was thinking ... Chronos.
I'm not familiar with the godlings. Do they work with spherecasting? I was thinking of that for my main classes.
I'm exploring two ways of going with my Netherese caster, but it wasn't Karsus I was look at as a father. I was thinking ... Chronos.
Pretty sure they were written before Spheres of Power came out, but I think I could tweak the spellcasting to fit for Spherecasting.
Are you thinking of being some sort of Chronomancer? Or just related to Chronos? Who apparently was the human aspect of the Elven deity Labelas Enoreth ?
Yes, I would have chronomancy. In addition to other stuff because quadstalt. It's just that I was setting up some good patterns when the godling requirement was added. I'll have to figure what parts to abandon to add this.
Whoa, no need to abandon anything. It's just an idea, not a definite, something to discuss amongst everyone, not just Seb and I.
I think it would be cool, but if you don't, I'm not gonna just force you to toss out parts of your build for something the group might not like.
I can easily take godling as 1/4th of my gestalt, without requiring everybody else to do so as well. It was mainly just an interesting idea I had in passing that I wanted to get everybody's thoughts on.
That said, aside from your above mentioned Wraith and Soul Weaver, what other classes were you thinking of? I'm curious to see if the ideas I have in mind for tweaking the godling would help keep your core concept in tact.
Basically, help me help you, or at least allow me to try. If it doesn't work, all good. I'll drop the godling requirement suggestion so you don't have to mess up your character. Cuz ya, 100% not about that.
I'm trying not to get too caught up until we get everything nailed down. But I have more than four classes I'm interested in. Probably not Wraith if I'm doing Chronos' son. That's the other variation I'm thinking about. I'll probably end up writing up both.
I'm still here, I'm busy with finals -- after the 12th I'll have more free time to game over the summer
Just checking in, letting you all know that Seb is currently in the middle of finals. I believe he still intends to run this, but will probably need at least a few more weeks.
One idea I had to keep with the legendary PCs concept, is that each character be required to take one of the Godling classes as 1/4th of their quadstalt.
Maybe not as an actual child of a god(s), but perhaps a few generations removed.
If the group likes this idea, and Seb approves it as well, I have some ideas on how to boost up the overall power and versatility of the classes.
I feel like that might lock down character concepts a bit -- certainly some characters could be the children of one of Mystra's avatars, or something similar
For base races(without any form of adjustments or templates), how does the following list sound:
Artic Dwarf, Gold Dwarf, Shield Dwarf, Urdunnir Dwarf, Wild Dwarf, Aquatic Elf, Avariel, Drow, Moon Elf, Sun Elf, Wild Elf, Wood Elf, Deep Gnome, Forest Gnome, Rock Gnome, Half-Elf, Half-Aquatic Elf, Half-Drow, Half-Orc, Ghostwise Halfling, Lightfoot Halfling, Strongheart Halfling, Human, Aasimar, Air Genasi, Earth Genasi, Fire Genasi, Tiefling, Water Genasi, Aarakocra, Centaur, Lizardfolk, Skin-Walker/Lycanthrope, Wemic.
There's also some generally evil races(like orcs & goblinoids), which would probably be acceptable. However, you would need a really good, compelling story as to why you're an outcast.
Obviously for the Genasi, we'll use the PF elemental races, since I'm fairly certain they're more or less the same(if not better).
I'd love to try and cook up a build for this, but being honest, I fall under the category of people that only ever explored the Sword Coast and nothing else. Still, I quite enjoy the optimization aspect of Pathfinder and do wanna try to crunch some numbers for this.
Would it be alright to build something for this despite being kind of lore-ignorant?
I'd love to try and cook up a build for this, but being honest, I fall under the category of people that only ever explored the Sword Coast and nothing else. Still, I quite enjoy the optimization aspect of Pathfinder and do wanna try to crunch some numbers for this.
Would it be alright to build something for this despite being kind of lore-ignorant?
It's entirely Seb's call, as I'm mostly helping with the recruitment and rules.
However, you have plenty of time to delve deep into the lore. I would start with the issue of Dragon linked in the OP. After that The FR wiki will be a great help as well.
If you have any questions, feel free to message me here or on discord(I am almost always active there).
I'd love to try and cook up a build for this, but being honest, I fall under the category of people that only ever explored the Sword Coast and nothing else. Still, I quite enjoy the optimization aspect of Pathfinder and do wanna try to crunch some numbers for this.
Would it be alright to build something for this despite being kind of lore-ignorant?
As long as you're willing to try to read up some before the game starts. This isn't the sword coast in 5e, or the default time of 3e, but hundreds of years before that. The political situation is totally different, and most of the countries and cities realms players are familiar with don't exist. I'm going to expect players not to make posts that assume stuff that doesn't exist yet -- like the Moonsea City States, Drizzt the Dark Elf. If you think you can keep up with that distinction and read up on the time period, I'd welcome an application.
Giving it all a read, I think it's wise for me to withdraw then. As much as I love crunching and optimizing builds, it feels like I won't be able to fully appreciate the game you'll be running. I'll get out of the way so someone with a better grasp of the FR lore gets a chance instead, so yeah, good luck with the game!
Is this still open for new applicants? I can whip up a character within the next few days if it is.
The character build rules haven't been locked down yet. This was put on hold because the GM had a big exam.
The character build rules haven't been locked down yet. This was put on hold because the GM had a big exam.
Awesome. I'm a huge fan of the Faerun setting, so I'll keep an eye out for this! Thanks for letting me know.
Sorry, I changed my mind, I don't feel like running any other high power games at the moment. This recruitment is canceled.