What 2e AP do you think they should turn into a video game? And why?


Pathfinder Adventure Path General Discussion


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I pick Agents Of Edgewatch, mainly because it's so different than the others. It almost seems more like a crime drama or spy thriller than a standard fantasy story.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Strength of Thousands. The Magaambya setting and Academic subsystem allows for memorable NPC interactions and numerous sidequests, and the main story is suitably epic. Plus, voiced Anchor Root.


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I think Strength of Thousands has the strongest supporting cast, in terms of characters who could be promoted up to videogame party members.

Radiant Oath

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Strength of Thousands. The focus on nonviolent solutions would make for a really unique video game.


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Strength of Thousands. Because I like games where you can get out of fights if you're clever or thoughtful or thorough.


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Honestly, though age of ashes IS fairly standard fair it does world tour a lot of Golarion and would benefit from a single writing team making the story more cohesive and motivating. While not bad, I would love to see age of ashes as it could have been: not rushed and with firmer narrative vision. Again, globe trotting to get the McGuffins and stopping a world ending threat is nothing new but in terms of familiarizing potential ttrpg customers with your setting, this adventure is pretty extensive. Also, gigantic golden eugenics dragon is still the first villain in a long time that made me do double take, like "excuse me!?!?!?" But maybe it wasn't actually all that novel and I'm just easily surprised. Who knows. Anyway, if it happens at all it's probably not gonna be owlcat. Engines are hard to make and the most sensible business decision is to at least make 1 if not 2 more games using the engine they have (meaning most likely 1e adventures). By the time they've finished that we'd probably be in third edition.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

Abomination Vaults seems like the most likely to actually get turned into one, but I think it would be somewhat of a boring choice. While it's a great dungeon, people want a lot more out of their CRPGs than a single dungeon.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
keftiu wrote:
I think Strength of Thousands has the strongest supporting cast, in terms of characters who could be promoted up to videogame party members.

Honestly, the vibe I got from the fellow students is that they would have become the new Magic Warriors if those pesky PCs weren't also there. I'd love to see that actually happen.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

I’d love to form the biggest disaster of a party with Mariama, Chizire, and Haibram.


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I started playing PF Kingmaker video game a few months ago. I'm surprised I missed this game as it is a great game. Reminds me of Baldur's Gate from way back. Story is fun and game is super engaging.

I'm going to do Wrath next.

They really put a lot of nice work into the story development for a video game.

As far as top of my list?

1. Runelords: Be pretty engaging in video game format. Lots of fun locations and changing environments.

2. Carrion Crown: Be a really fun undead campaign. I can see the jail or the underwater environment or the Innsmouth like town in video game format. Be a blast.

3. Age of Ashes: This AP would make a great video game with the whole gates format leading to new places. You go through a gate and get to investigate a whole new place.

Most of the APs would be solid for the most part. I think APs with changing locations, lots of varied monsters, and a really nice linear story would be most compelling. Rise and Carrion Crown both fit this criteria.

I really like Agents as a campaign, but I think the focus on Absalom would get kind of boring as a video game. You'd wander about the city, but it would all be the city.

Not sure about Strength.

If they work with Owlcat to do another AP, those would be my top 3 though I'd likely give any AP video game a shot as I'm having so much fun in this Pathfinder Kingmaker game.


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Agents seems impossible to do as a video game, since in a TTRPG context a GM can create the illusion of "huge, bustling city" by improvising when called for, but when you have to actually put the whole thing on the screen you're asking for a lot if you want Absalom to feel like Absalom ought to.

Like the thing about software is that nothing that the developers didn't think about in advance makes it into the game, so there's a reason a lot of video games take place on a frontier, in a wasteland, etc.

The A1 #1 with a bullet Pathfinder AP I'd like to see adapted to be a video game is Strange Aeons.


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Lotta 2e APs being namedropped in the last two posts :p


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None of the 2nd edition APs would make a good video game.

Just my opinion, obviously.


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The issue with large scale, 'travel the world' style APs like, Age of Ashes or Reign of Winter say, is that unless the locations share architectural or cultural elements, they will require more new assets.

Everything that appears on screen requires people to create, so budget is a concern, and the Pathfinder CRPGs that we have are good, solid endeavors, but they have modest budgets for CRPGS compared to say, Baldur's Gate 3. (Both of their Kickstarters were presented as generating additional funds for development, so their actual budget is somewhat unknown.)

APs that take place in specific, localized geographic locations are the most economical I'd say. Agents of Edgewatch or Strength of Thousands are both good 2e APs for consideration in this regard, though SoT goes to some strange places. APs with that Book 5 twist usually do.

I suppose a Beginner Box>Troubles in Otari>Abomination Vault would be a good go, but the early teens level cap there could be disappointing.

Radiant Oath

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I gotta agree on Strength of Thousands having an engaging cast of characters, though I think it may work better if it decoupled from the traditional CRPG format: given the emphasis on nonviolent solutions and puzzle-solving, it might play better as something like an adventure game, or something like how Torment: Tides of Numenara handled things (I still need to play that past the prologue). Especially since one of the biggest set of gripes I hear regarding Owlcat's games is frustration at the segments that depend on solving puzzles. Making EVERYTHING in the game more like a puzzle might sharpen the puzzlemaking, resulting in better puzzles, or so the player is always in a puzzle-solving mindset, so the game doesn't grind to a halt when one appears.

Also, they'd NEED to get Kevin Michael Richardson in the voice cast. I've ALWAYS heard his voice mentally when I think of Old-Mage Jatembe, even back in 1e. :P


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I mean, Planescape: Torment is considered one of the best CRPGs ever made, despite it basically being a visual novel with terrible combat stapled to it. Strength of Thousands at least has a sound tactical engine associated with it.

Acquisitives

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Honestly, you could have a lot of fun w/ EXTINCTION CURSE if you made the Circus parts into a series of weird and unique side games.


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Yakman wrote:
Honestly, you could have a lot of fun w/ EXTINCTION CURSE if you made the Circus parts into a series of weird and unique side games.

Touche! I stand corrected.


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PossibleCabbage wrote:

Agents seems impossible to do as a video game, since in a TTRPG context a GM can create the illusion of "huge, bustling city" by improvising when called for, but when you have to actually put the whole thing on the screen you're asking for a lot if you want Absalom to feel like Absalom ought to.

Like the thing about software is that nothing that the developers didn't think about in advance makes it into the game, so there's a reason a lot of video games take place on a frontier, in a wasteland, etc.

The A1 #1 with a bullet Pathfinder AP I'd like to see adapted to be a video game is Strange Aeons.

What if they made most of the city an overland map (similar to the one in Kingmaker), and only had the important areas actually be in the game?


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willfromamerica wrote:
Abomination Vaults seems like the most likely to actually get turned into one, but I think it would be somewhat of a boring choice. While it's a great dungeon, people want a lot more out of their CRPGs than a single dungeon.

It worked for the original Diablo.

Radiant Oath

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Yqatuba wrote:
willfromamerica wrote:
Abomination Vaults seems like the most likely to actually get turned into one, but I think it would be somewhat of a boring choice. While it's a great dungeon, people want a lot more out of their CRPGs than a single dungeon.
It worked for the original Diablo.

I could see Abomination vaults targeting a $20 price point, with the fun interactions like the battle of the bands. For a modern full-price game, I'm looking for more than a single dungeon.


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AceofMoxen wrote:
Yqatuba wrote:
willfromamerica wrote:
Abomination Vaults seems like the most likely to actually get turned into one, but I think it would be somewhat of a boring choice. While it's a great dungeon, people want a lot more out of their CRPGs than a single dungeon.
It worked for the original Diablo.
I could see Abomination vaults targeting a $20 price point, with the fun interactions like the battle of the bands. For a modern full-price game, I'm looking for more than a single dungeon.

The level band of Abomination vaults might not be the biggest hurdle given that I hear the new Baldur's Gate game is only going to end up 10-13, but that game has its content spread over a large map and it'll sell for a full retail price.

Now, The mega dungeon and Otari could work, but given the limited amount of geographic space you cover and how many of the NPCs in the dungeon you end up killing, the emotional engagement would have to come from the party you adventure with and the people in Otari you help.

Of course, the amount of content abomination vaults provides is a big question, because that will depend a lot of the mechanical interpretation of 2e mechanics. A full turn based tactical PF2 engine simulator might allow a savvy player to chew through encounters at a rapid pace compared to how a table goes through it, which means that it might not provide that much content time wise.

Mm. An interesting puzzle.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

If it's not Owlcat games, then strength of A thousands.
I think it would be really cool to explore the academy, take/teach classes, and just embrace the puzzle. And non violent options available in the game.

If it's owlcat games something generic as possible. Last thing we need is form them to shoe in an evil lich option at the Academy and then kill of one of the memorable npcs.


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pixierose wrote:

If it's not Owlcat games, then strength of A thousands.

I think it would be really cool to explore the academy, take/teach classes, and just embrace the puzzle. And non violent options available in the game.

If it's owlcat games something generic as possible. Last thing we need is form them to shoe in an evil lich option at the Academy and then kill of one of the memorable npcs.

Who did they kill off? I'm playing PF Kingmaker right now. They gonna kill Amiri?


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Deriven Firelion wrote:
pixierose wrote:

If it's not Owlcat games, then strength of A thousands.

I think it would be really cool to explore the academy, take/teach classes, and just embrace the puzzle. And non violent options available in the game.

If it's owlcat games something generic as possible. Last thing we need is form them to shoe in an evil lich option at the Academy and then kill of one of the memorable npcs.

Who did they kill off? I'm playing PF Kingmaker right now. They gonna kill Amiri?

In WoTR they kill off some of the originl characters from the original Adventure Path, in favor of their edgy oc's.


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Honestly, Kingmaker is so buggy on the PS4 I'm not wasting my time or money on WotR.


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Deriven Firelion wrote:
pixierose wrote:

If it's not Owlcat games, then strength of A thousands.

I think it would be really cool to explore the academy, take/teach classes, and just embrace the puzzle. And non violent options available in the game.

If it's owlcat games something generic as possible. Last thing we need is form them to shoe in an evil lich option at the Academy and then kill of one of the memorable npcs.

Who did they kill off? I'm playing PF Kingmaker right now. They gonna kill Amiri?

You can get her killed with poor choices, certainly.

The Owlcat games are adaptations of the material and things are going to change in such adaptations. An Owlcat table is a particular GM with their own quirks. Not to everyone's tastes.


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If I had to pick and choose, I'd rather they focused on PF1 APs, but converted them to 2e rules.

The Runelords Trilogy if I had to choose, but my ideal scernero would be them starting at Rise of the Runelords and just going through them in order. They could even get creative with some of the weaker APs when they get to them.


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Strength of Thousands. Hopefully with the same quality as Pillars of Eternity 2, when handling culture.

Dark Archive

I think main thing here is that I'm not sure Owlcat would be right company to adapt 2e aps right though because lot of 2e works better if you don't have lot of "encounters just to have encounters"


Owlcat plays 1e in their offices, and their writing tends much more towards the older 1e edgy style than where 2e's sensibilities are generally at today. Their current project, the Rogue Trader adaptation, seems like a very good fit for both their love of mechanical crunch and their love of being a real bastard as a player character.

Dark Archive

I don't think that is the problem per say though, like reason why Pathfinder 2e material is less edgy nowadays is that paizo have fully moved to "Don't have disturbing content for shock value if it has no purpose being there(such as story being about serial killer), the gm and table can set their own tone without writers doing it for them". The paizo writers still seem to like dark things, its just that they won't include things like random bandits that are implied to do very specific bad things as random throwaway line just to make the bandits super duper evil.

Like, lot of the 2e stories could be adapted to video games, but best video game format for them might not always be "dungeon crawling rpg with lot of encounters because its combat game"

For example, Edgewatch might be better adapted as toning down combat and making it more of detective adventure game <_<


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Its a tricky needle to thread, honestly.

If you say you're making a video game based on the Pathfinder RPG Adventure Path, my first thought is CRPG. These come with their own expectations. Its not like Pathfinder:Kingmaker is that markedly different from the genre's defining entry Baldur's Gate 2.

A video game adaptation will have more encounters than a tabletop game because it takes a minute or two to get through a high level encounter in real time with pause mode vs 1 to 3 hours for a table play. I can chew through 3 levels of content in a CRPG in the time it takes to play a single session of the TTRPG. The content is consumed differently and the audiences of the different mediums have vastly different expectations for what makes a good experience.

If a 2e AP gets adapted, I'd expect it to be an effort to translate the combat engine to a video game because 2e seems to be asking for this kind of automation. The mechanical balance is the thing that 2e is most widely praised for. It'd play more like X-Com than the Owlcat PF1 games as PF1 can be solved by Build, Buff and roflstomp.

Now, various D&D properties have attempted different genres. The 3rd Person Action (Forgotten Realms:Demon Stone), Diablo Clone (Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance), Real-Time Strategy (Dungeons & Dragons: Dragonshard), Incremental Game (Idle Champions of the Forgotten Realms) but most of them RPGs and Hack & Slash.

A Lost Omens: Agents of Edgewatch game done in the style of Disco Elysium would, in fact, be the bee's knees. Lost Omens: Strength of Thousands could be one of the great Visual Novels of the year. I just don't know if there's a market for these kinds of experiences. Lost Omens: Tyrant's Grasp the Souls-like sounds like a good time if you like that sort of thing.

If you want to seize the existing market of 'People who like Pathfinder' to help your game, then you have to consider what that market looks like and what it wants.

Though after looking over a lot of the 2e APs out there, I'd say Strength of Thousands is the outlier given how grim you can play any of the other APs in 2e. That's a table taste thing. When I ran Wrath of the Righteous, it ended up more like a Saturday Morning Cartoon than the Grim Hellscape Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous was. I enjoyed both though.

Dark Archive

I mean, its kinda like asking "Is there market for pathfinder books or animation show"? The purpose of multimedia spinoffs is to increase interest in setting or the main product.

But yeah, I'm actually bit worried about whether pathfinder 2e would work in video game context because of the said balance, since lot of people like to break balance in players' favor with exploits and shenanigans.


CorvusMask wrote:

I mean, its kinda like asking "Is there market for pathfinder books or animation show"? The purpose of multimedia spinoffs is to increase interest in setting or the main product.

But yeah, I'm actually bit worried about whether pathfinder 2e would work in video game context because of the said balance, since lot of people like to break balance in players' favor with exploits and shenanigans.

If I recall, the Pathfinder Tales line essentially ended and they couldn't find someone to take it up. (Or something.) The market might not have been strong enough to warrant a distributor's interest. I'm sure they'd love to publish the novels they have in the can, but if it will not be profitable, there's no reason to do it.

The ROI must be considered. Paizo isn't Games Workshop when it comes to tossing their license out there. Of course, there was the Pathfinder Online thing which, if I recall, soured the company on video games for a while. A bad product can damage the brand. I'm glad the Owlcat games do well enough that they are still supporting Wrath of the Righteous with content and that there might be more Pathfinder computer games from them because maybe someone else will also want to give it a go. I mean, an Assassin's Creed style Open World in Absalom is another potentially great game, but that's a crowded market to compete in.

And as someone who finds 'But its balanced' to be the most milquetoast endorsement of an RPG system, I'm not overly concerned with people trying to min/max to the degree that CRPG players do. People are going to have fun with a game however they want to have fun. But I also think that you would want to market a game with a PF2 engine as Tactical Strategy game with RPG elements instead of a CRPG. More like the modern Fire Emblems maybe.

Dark Archive

Yep. I think balanced system could work better in tactical strategy game than crpg since lot of people seem to prefer that as power fantasy dealio.


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Curveball time: A fighting game featuring all the iconics, based on Fist of the Ruby Phoenix.


Starcatcher wrote:
Curveball time: A fighting game featuring all the iconics, based on Fist of the Ruby Phoenix.

I appreciate how annoying all of the Biting Roses would be to play against, as two ranged characters and one who fights using a “pet.”

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Starcatcher wrote:
Curveball time: A fighting game featuring all the iconics, based on Fist of the Ruby Phoenix.

A fighting game roster based on the Pathfinder Iconics set in the Ruby Phoenix Tournament would SLAP

Liberty's Edge

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Agents of edgewatch for a good detective story in a gotham-like gothic-punk Absalom.

Scarab Sages

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Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

Sight unseen, Stolen Fate or Gatewalkers. I always liked the fortune-teller starting mechanic to Ultima V.

Liberty's Edge

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Archpaladin Zousha wrote:

I gotta agree on Strength of Thousands having an engaging cast of characters, though I think it may work better if it decoupled from the traditional CRPG format: given the emphasis on nonviolent solutions and puzzle-solving, it might play better as something like an adventure game, or something like how Torment: Tides of Numenara handled things (I still need to play that past the prologue). Especially since one of the biggest set of gripes I hear regarding Owlcat's games is frustration at the segments that depend on solving puzzles. Making EVERYTHING in the game more like a puzzle might sharpen the puzzlemaking, resulting in better puzzles, or so the player is always in a puzzle-solving mindset, so the game doesn't grind to a halt when one appears.

Also, they'd NEED to get Kevin Michael Richardson in the voice cast. I've ALWAYS heard his voice mentally when I think of Old-Mage Jatembe, even back in 1e. :P

Strength of Thousands in the gameplay style of Disco Elysium would be perfection.


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I'm not counting on Owlcat anymore after their disappointing turn to the Dark Side that is Warhammer 40k.

That said, I don't thin Strength of Thousands would be a good fit for a CRPG (*). I like Abomination Vaults, but it's probably too short and too repetitive. Probably the best would be a reworked Age of Ashes.

(*) I'm playing SoT as GM in one of my groups, but I'm not really getting the broad appeal this AP seems to have. We have finished part 1, but it's not really clicking for me. Maybe it's the vague timetable or the thin plot, I don't know.


The Raven Black wrote:
Agents of edgewatch for a good detective story in a gotham-like gothic-punk Absalom.

It does seem that what AoE really needs to work well is "somewhat tight guardrails on the story" a thing that is easier to do in a video game where the only things that are possible are anticipated by the developers than the inherent infinite freedom in a TTRPG.

Like "all your stuff is mysteriously nonlethal" in the player's guide is a weird kludge, whereas in the game you could only bother to include things which are appropriate to use against civilians or simply grey out options that are not contextually appropriate (like how you can't even flag friendlies in Mass Effect) and given the language of video games this won't read as unusual. Particularly when you deliberately design reasonable level-appropriate tools for the characters to use in lieu of "I hit you with an axe" or "I cast disintegrate." Think something like "Sleeping Dogs" where you can only use a gun in certain situations.


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PossibleCabbage wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:
Agents of edgewatch for a good detective story in a gotham-like gothic-punk Absalom.

It does seem that what AoE really needs to work well is "somewhat tight guardrails on the story" a thing that is easier to do in a video game where the only things that are possible are anticipated by the developers than the inherent infinite freedom in a TTRPG.

Like "all your stuff is mysteriously nonlethal" in the player's guide is a weird kludge, whereas in the game you could only bother to include things which are appropriate to use against civilians or simply grey out options that are not contextually appropriate (like how you can't even flag friendlies in Mass Effect) and given the language of video games this won't read as unusual. Particularly when you deliberately design reasonable level-appropriate tools for the characters to use in lieu of "I hit you with an axe" or "I cast disintegrate." Think something like "Sleeping Dogs" where you can only use a gun in certain situations.

I think an Agents of Edgewatch game could go a couple of ways. The rules of engagement would alter a lot based on the type of game you end up making though.

Your Open World First Person style: Cyberpunk 2077, Dishonored, or Thief style.
Open World 3rd Person: Assassin's Creed, Arkham City, Hitman
These genres lend towards more weapons free styles. The player chooses how to engage with the world. Violence, Non-violence, lethal non lethal. The options are for the players and they play in the setting.

Absalom is such a large city it begs for the oodles of side quests and explorable locations--it slots so neatly into either of these styles. I admit my own preference for this style as I would really enjoy seeing a realized 3d model of the city to walk around in. But its a massive and expensive undertaking.

When you get away from embracing all the potential of the Absalom location, you're with classic CRPG: Disco Elysium or a more traditional Baldur's Gate/Pathfinder:Kingmaker style. I can't stand playing Planescape: Torment, but I understand you can play quite a bit of it avoiding combat--which I think should be a feature of a more narrative experience versus an action one.

The combat engine in these don't often resolve non lethal very well, but you can talk yourself out of fights and you can add non lethal weapons to be equipped which covers the rules patch in the TTRPG fairly well.

You have fun with it, There's the adventure game genre with its Police Quest, Monkey Island, or Tales from the Borderlands that provides a lot of options for resolving calls.

Combat is almost always an afterthought or solved in a puzzle in these games, so it might be best for an ideal model of policing inspiration.


Coridan wrote:
Archpaladin Zousha wrote:

I gotta agree on Strength of Thousands having an engaging cast of characters, though I think it may work better if it decoupled from the traditional CRPG format: given the emphasis on nonviolent solutions and puzzle-solving, it might play better as something like an adventure game, or something like how Torment: Tides of Numenara handled things (I still need to play that past the prologue). Especially since one of the biggest set of gripes I hear regarding Owlcat's games is frustration at the segments that depend on solving puzzles. Making EVERYTHING in the game more like a puzzle might sharpen the puzzlemaking, resulting in better puzzles, or so the player is always in a puzzle-solving mindset, so the game doesn't grind to a halt when one appears.

Also, they'd NEED to get Kevin Michael Richardson in the voice cast. I've ALWAYS heard his voice mentally when I think of Old-Mage Jatembe, even back in 1e. :P

Strength of Thousands in the gameplay style of Disco Elysium would be perfection.

Heck, venerable old Planescape: Torment didn’t really want the D&D combat stapled to it, and largely played out the same.

I’d *love* to see the Mzali arc adapted, and I think there’s so many great potential companions!

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