Trample / Overrun a flying creature


Rules Questions


Player is flying 5-10 feet off the ground. My Gargantuan creature wants to move through his square with a Trample or Overrun manuever.

Does this work normally vs the flying creature? The big creature is moving through his squares but I know PF gets a little fuzzy on how it handles 3d dimensions :)

Thanks!

The Exchange

Xavram5 wrote:

Player is flying 5-10 feet off the ground. My Gargantuan creature wants to move through his square with a Trample or Overrun manuever.

Does this work normally vs the flying creature? The big creature is moving through his squares but I know PF gets a little fuzzy on how it handles 3d dimensions :)

The fuzzy question is whether or not you can knock the player prone. You can't trip a flying creature, but that's the only such explicitly stated provision. However I'd extend that to say that flying creatures are immune to being knocked prone (since that's literally all trip does). So overrun would in practice not have any effect but trample could do damage.


I handle it that creatures flying by some form of wings or similar air displacement can be tripped (I see no reason why you can't target wings instead of legs) and have to make a Fly check to regain stability or start falling at half normal falling speed. Creatures with some form of magical flight are immune to this effect.

Liberty's Edge

Bjørn Røyrvik wrote:
I handle it that creatures flying by some form of wings or similar air displacement can be tripped (I see no reason why you can't target wings instead of legs) and have to make a Fly check to regain stability or start falling at half normal falling speed. Creatures with some form of magical flight are immune to this effect.
CRB wrote:

Attacked While Flying:

You are not considered flat-footed while flying. If you are flying using wings and you take damage while flying, you must make a DC 10 Fly check to avoid losing 10 feet of altitude. This descent does not provoke an attack of opportunity and does not count against a creature’s movement.

Collision While Flying:
If you are using wings to fly and you collide with an object equal to your size or larger, you must immediately make a DC 25 Fly check to avoid plummeting to the ground, taking the appropriate falling damage.

I would say that those two cover what you are trying to depict, but a normal Trip doesn't work on creatures flying.

You are attempting a different combat maneuver.

The Exchange

I was using Trip as a source to look for an extensible answer.

Overrun by itself (with no other feats or abilities) has no effect on the creature you are overrunning other than knocking it prone. Prone is defined on CRB page 568 as "lying on the ground." Searching through the rest of the book (strong winds, spells, etc.) it seems that you can't be prone - or knocked prone - while flying. You have to be on the ground. Something that makes logical sense. And is explicitly stated in the Trip rules.

Trample, on the other hand, can do damage. It still wouldn't directly knock the target flyer prone. If the creature flies using wings then yes it could eventually end up on the ground. If it takes damage and fails a DC10 Fly check, it falls 10'. If it happens to be starting off exactly 10' up, it would then hit the ground and take 1d6 damage, which in turn results in falling prone.

Summary: Overrun wouldn't do anything. Trample would do damage and (in a very specific set of circumstances) could result in a winged flyer being prone on the ground.


I think Overrun is the right mechanic. The Gargantuan creature attempts to move into the PC's square, provoking an AoO unless they have Improved Overrun. The player has the choice of letting the creature through or risking a collision. If the creature has trample then there is no choice and the collision is rolled. This leads to several potential outcomes depending on the success of the Overrun or Trample and Collision check:

Overrun success, Collision success - creature moves through square, character placed at closest legal square.
Trample success, collision success - treat as overrun, PC is not moved over
Overrun/Trample fail, collision success - creature stops before making overrun
Overrun success, collision fail - creature moves through square, PC suffers falling damage and is prone.
Trample success, collision fail - PC suffers falling and trample damage and is prone.
Overrun/trample fail, collision fail - creature stops, PC suffers falling damage and is prone.


Note trample is always successful, you don't make the overrun roll (which means there is no being knocked prone anyway as you can't exceed CMD by 5), the player just takes damage and can reflex save for half (if they forgoe the -4 AoO).


I've just realised, I mixed up the Trample feat and ability. What I should have said is that the PC can't avoid the overrun if the creature has the trample feat. The damage application mostly applies to the ability, but a creature with the feat could make their attack whilst overrunning.

Noting AwesomenessDog's comment on the Trample ability. I considered that the PC had to be on the ground (as a result of a collision) for the ability to have any bearing.

Ie an Overrun can occur in the air and risks a collision, the trample feat allows an attack during an overrun and the trample ability only works against creatures on the ground.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Trample / Overrun a flying creature All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.