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This is my first attempt at writing a guide and it is my hope that some people in the Pathfinder community find a use for it. I humbly present...
Martial Magicks: A Thesis on the Blending of Arcane and Martial Prowess
Analysis of the majority of archetypes is still a Work-in-Progress, and I will update the guide as they are finished.
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Nice formatted. I did enjoy most of your ratings and there were a few surprises too. I did enjoy your Magus view on spells as it was different to my take which was Sorcerer orientated.
I notice there was no discussion of builds options like
Level 2:Cleric Dedication, Level 4: Domain Initiate for Fire Ray,
Or non Conflux focus spells in general.
Good to see I'm two for two on formatting if nothing else. lol.
Nice formatted. I did enjoy most of your ratings and there were a few surprises too. I did enjoy your Magus view on spells as it was different to mine take which was Sorcerer orientated.
I notice there was no discussion of builds options like
Level 2:Cleric Dedication, Level 4: Domain Initiate for Fire Ray,Or non Conflux focus spells in general.
I confess I had completely forgotten about other focus spells that might be useful for the Magus. While writing the guide I got rather laser-focused on the action-efficiency of their native Conflux spells and how other focus spells lacked that.
From a very quick look at other focus spells it does seem that there are some potentially nice combinations I'm overlooking by doing that. I'll re-evaluate focus spells from other classes and any that wind up being noteworthy will be added to the archetype's description as my next update. Thank you for the input!
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I'll re-evaluate focus spells from other classes and any that wind up being noteworthy will be added to the archetype's description as my next update. Thank you for the input!
The best options that scale at round about 1d12 per spell level are:
Fire Ray, Winter Bolt, and Withering Grasp from Cleric, Stone Lance from Druid.Focus spells are just a good way to get around your 4 slot problem as a Magus and gives you the flexibility to other things with your spells.
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Always nice to see a detailed guide, thanks for that!
I've only skimmed a few chapters so far but one thing that stood out to me was your round-to-round-breakdown. I don't think going for Arcane Cascade on turn one is a great idea.
My resoning is:
- A turn 1 Spellstrike might outright take a weaker enemy out on a good roll (maybe with some extra damage from your allies). That's more valuable than pretty much any spell you could cast.
- Magus comes with very effective one-action focus spells that make activating Arcane Cascade easy. Those focus spells also recharge your Spellstrike so using them before your first Spellstrike is a waste. But your breakdown basically means you won't need to recharge before turn 3 and by that time, many fights are already decided, greatly diminishing the impact of your focus spell.
So basically, I'd usually prioritize getting a Spellstrike off over entering Arcane Cascade. Something like
Turn 1: Stride, Spellstrike
Turn 2: Use Hybrid Study focus spell to recharge, enter Arcane Cascade. Use third action as needed for Strike, Stride, Recall Knowledge or similar.
Turn 3: Spellstrike and whatever.
Arcane Cascade isn't nearly as impactful as similar abilities of other classes like Monk Stances or Barbarian Rage. I'd use it as my "other" ability, completely secondary to Spellstrike.
There are exceptions of course. If you win initiative and can catch 5 enemies in a Fireball, go for it. Or maybe you're facing flying enemies and need to cast Fly on yourself on turn one. Situations like that will (and should) change your tactics, obviously. But for most regular combats, an early Spellstrike beats entering Cascade more often than not.
Note: My only personal experience is with a Sparkling Targe Magus. The priority shifts a bit if you have another Hybird Study but even for the ones with the best Cascade effects, I can't really see myself going for it over a Spellstrike.
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Your guide looks pretty awesome. If you want to complete it based on other people's view/experience of the Magus, you can check the other Magus guide and the Magus threads around here (Advice forum mostly, but General too, and maybe Rules).
I feel that your work is advanced enough and your understanding of the class deep enough that doing so now will enhance your guide rather than detract from its focus.
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I fully agree with Blave. A turn 1 Spellstrike can turn a tough fight into a breeze if you're lucky enough.
I'd also give more incentive to rerolling your Spellstrike. There's not just True Strike, you can also use Hero Points, and some abilities like Guiding Luck. Rerolling Spellstrike is very important, if you can do it consistantly you should outdamage every martial with a Magus.
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Thanks for the feedback everyone!
I'll admit in my personal experience I've had the majority of my encounters as a player tended be fairly large affairs or starting at a distance from enemies, so Arcane Cascade's more long-term benefits appealed to me greatly. But Blave, I do have to grant you did remind me of the occasional fights I had where I did start almost adjacent to enemies and yeah, like you said, I immediately went for the spellstrike. I agree that spellstrike takes priority and have updated the tactics section with some thoughts on that, as well as some observations on hybrid studies individual bonuses.
Also thank you Superbidi, I had completely forgotten to mention re-rolls. Added that in under Spellstrike Usage.
Focus Spells and Archetypes are still pending update and will probably take a while. There are a lot of them...
So one thing that I am interested in. In my current game, we rolled for our stats, and I got some high scores so I buffed up Charisma with my Magus just to have something different.
Everyone seems to rank Distracting Spellstrike pretty low, but with a very high CHA and proficiency in Deception, would that be a more viable feat? Or is it still kind of meh, since we have a Rouge on our party and with easy access to short range teleportation, flanking is not hard to get with him?
Posting the link to this in the Guide to the Guides thread to make it easier to find.
So one thing that I am interested in. In my current game, we rolled for our stats, and I got some high scores so I buffed up Charisma with my Magus just to have something different.
Everyone seems to rank Distracting Spellstrike pretty low, but with a very high CHA and proficiency in Deception, would that be a more viable feat? Or is it still kind of meh, since we have a Rouge on our party and with easy access to short range teleportation, flanking is not hard to get with him?
High Charisma and Deception is usually very low on the priority list for a Magus. That's why the feat is bad in general. Flat-Footed being relatively easy to apply by other means doesn't help either.
That being said, a high deception score obviously makes the feat better. It might barely push the feat to a green rating. A free Feint as effect is definitely good. The question is mostly is this worth a feat? The low level feats of the magus aren't that great overall so you might find room for it.
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So one thing that I am interested in. In my current game, we rolled for our stats, and I got some high scores so I buffed up Charisma with my Magus just to have something different.
Everyone seems to rank Distracting Spellstrike pretty low, but with a very high CHA and proficiency in Deception, would that be a more viable feat? Or is it still kind of meh, since we have a Rouge on our party and with easy access to short range teleportation, flanking is not hard to get with him?
I find Distracting Spellstrike to be quite strong if you manage to have enough Charisma to make it happen. Flat-Footed is pretty important to get on Spellstrike, so another source is always good to have.
In my opinion, the feat is even worth it if you don't have much Charisma, just because it's free. So with good Charisma, it's gold to me (for a level 4 feat).| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
So one thing that I am interested in. In my current game, we rolled for our stats, and I got some high scores so I buffed up Charisma with my Magus just to have something different.
Everyone seems to rank Distracting Spellstrike pretty low, but with a very high CHA and proficiency in Deception, would that be a more viable feat? Or is it still kind of meh, since we have a Rouge on our party and with easy access to short range teleportation, flanking is not hard to get with him?
I consider Distracting Spellstrike generally viable with or without high CHA, just not a particularly optimal option a Magus could take. Though yeah if you got high CHA then yes that makes that feat much more amazing!
You and your rogue might not always be able to flank an opponent so having another means to make them flat-footed is golden.
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Distracting spell is kinda limiting in terms of hybrid studies since it requires a free hand, but a laughing skull magus could probably make some use out of it.
Also, gaining your feint the magical trait, it would trigger the +1/2 against spells and magical effects many enemies have.
Though, imo, I'd never go for it ( I'd look for an archetype feat instead ).
Quick question, why are people refering to laughing shadow as laughing skull?
I think I've seen that pop up multiple times recently ?
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I doubled check and it was you!!
I thought I was missing out on some slick new meta build that merged laughing shadows with death metal music or whatnot !
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Maybe it was me all the times...
I also have no idea why I keep writing skull rather than shadow...
Yeah I didn't want to say anything but it was kinda driving me nuts. lol
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Also, your guide should probably mention that laughing shadow's speed boost from cascade is pretty much useless by lvl 8 or so when you have a wand of longstrider, which is better and doesn't stack.
I actually mention the redundancy in the spells section for Longstrider. Which one is preferable is one bit I'd rather not weigh in on, so far as I'm concerned different strokes there.
So one thing that I am interested in. In my current game, we rolled for our stats, and I got some high scores so I buffed up Charisma with my Magus just to have something different.
Everyone seems to rank Distracting Spellstrike pretty low, but with a very high CHA and proficiency in Deception, would that be a more viable feat? Or is it still kind of meh, since we have a Rouge on our party and with easy access to short range teleportation, flanking is not hard to get with him?
I consider Distracting Spellstrike generally viable with or without high CHA, just not a particularly optimal option a Magus could take. Though yeah if you got high CHA then yes that makes that feat much more amazing!
You and your rogue might not always be able to flank an opponent so having another means to make them flat-footed is golden.
One thought I had for a Magus who wants a good Charisma is for them to pick up some innate cantrips via their ancestry. Gnomes & elves would be a good fit, since they can access quite a few innate cantrips with their heritage and ancestry feats, as well as Tengu & Kitsune.
The Arcane Cascade benefit of Twisting tree should be at least Green. There are many reasons to need a free hand. And scrolls of True Strike are the biggest one for a Magus.
The benefit allows you to cast True Strike from a scroll, shift your grip to 2-hands for free and Spellstrike.
I had failed to consider that. I do believe I'm in agreement with you.
Note that the Optional flaw rule is NOT an optional rule. Your GM can disallow it, of course. But the system allows it by default, so that any ancestry can start with an 18 in their primary stat, whatever their class.
Technically true and I'll edit, but... kind of a splitting hairs thing, lol. Well no worries, like I said I'll edit.
In the Cleric MC Dedication text, you mention Heal as a source of positive damage against undead, but there is also Disrupt Undead, which is a cantrip ;-)
Uh... <.<
Uh... >.>
That was a test! You passed! (lol, okay no that's a good catch I missed will fix).
I would rate Expansive Spellstrike as blue as far as Starlit Span is concerned because you actually have more freedom when placing cones or lines, which means more opportunities to hit several enemies with your spell.
I'm in disagreement here. While the area placement is true I don't think it warrants a bump up in rating given the Magus still has better things to do than use save-based multi-target blasts with their DC's. Still I'll grant the Starlit Span's more flexible placement does warrant at least a mention.
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Realized I did not thank you for this great guide. It helped me immensely in creating my first Magus for today's game. You could almost call it the Complete guide to the Magus. And really my points are minor.
I hope you will do similar guides for the other classes, even though I see how much effort went into this one.
Very well done.
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I'm curious about peoples' take on Arcane Shroud. What are the best spells to trigger it with?
I feel like for example Stoneskin would be really nice to get out of it, but I'm having a tough time picking abjuration spells I'd be happy to prepare as a magus.
I'm curious about peoples' take on Arcane Shroud. What are the best spells to trigger it with?
I feel like for example Stoneskin would be really nice to get out of it, but I'm having a tough time picking abjuration spells I'd be happy to prepare as a magus.
If you want Stoneskin just for Stoneskin I'm of the opinion you're better off just preparing Stoneskin in its current best spell slot and just casting it straight.
That said for Arcane Shroud, you can use Resist Energy, Energy Aegis, or Prismatic Armor and then drop into Arcane Shroud for the Stoneskin buff and voila! You are able to resist not just physical damage, but energy damage too! Take that Dragon!
Remember, your main strength as a prepared caster is having the right spells for the right situations.
I'm curious about peoples' take on Arcane Shroud. What are the best spells to trigger it with?
I feel like for example Stoneskin would be really nice to get out of it, but I'm having a tough time picking abjuration spells I'd be happy to prepare as a magus.
The best schools with the spell that I find to use on it.
Abjuration - Warding Agression is the most interesting here, as you an AC bonus and then can gain Stoneskin as well, making you pretty tanky that turn. Resilient Sphere is also decent as even if the enemy make the save you still remove an action and gives them MAP if it have to strike.
Conjuration - Blink Charge can be an opener, blood feast if allowed is the best Spellstrike spell in the game.
Enchantment - Heroism is good and not in the Arcane list, but the best spells are mostly save based, like Roaring Applause, so best used when not neglecting Intelligence and having extra slots from a Witch or Wizard MC.
Evocation - All the main offensive spellstrike spells are here anyway.
Illusion - The effect is good but it's the lvl 2 spell, and unlike enchantment that you don't have access to Heroism, you do have access to Invisibility, so it's best to just use it as a lvl 4 spell and ignore the shroud effect.
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This is good guide, I'm reading through the ancestry section right now, I should point out that optional flaw would let a Gnome start with 18 Strength (you mention them having to be a step behind), though it would make their other stats even dicier. To my knowledge Optional Flaw is not a variant rule, just something the player themselves elects whether or not to do.
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This is good guide, I'm reading through the ancestry section right now, I should point out that optional flaw would let a Gnome start with 18 Strength (you mention them having to be a step behind), though it would make their other stats even dicier. To my knowledge Optional Flaw is not a variant rule, just something the player themselves elects whether or not to do.
Thank you for the feedback. :)
One reason I preceded the whole section by saying it's written assuming the flaws aren't used, and also threw in some general advice applicable to any ancestry if you do take the additional flaws.
Anyways... I had thought I'd already corrected any mention of it being an optional rule... but I think I see where the confusion is coming from; I had simply misremembered that it's supposed to be called "Voluntary Flaws" not "Optional Flaws." Should be corrected now.
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This is good guide, I'm reading through the ancestry section right now, I should point out that optional flaw would let a Gnome start with 18 Strength (you mention them having to be a step behind), though it would make their other stats even dicier. To my knowledge Optional Flaw is not a variant rule, just something the player themselves elects whether or not to do.Thank you for the feedback. :)
One reason I preceded the whole section by saying it's written assuming the flaws aren't used, and also threw in some general advice applicable to any ancestry if you do take the additional flaws.
Anyways... I had thought I'd already corrected any mention of it being an optional rule... but I think I see where the confusion is coming from; I had simply misremembered that it's supposed to be called "Voluntary Flaws" not "Optional Flaws." Should be corrected now.
Missed the disclaimer, so yeah, that makes more sense. Its a potent optimization tool under most circumstances, especially since Gnomes have that sweet sweet focus point recharge.
One minor note on Horizon Thunder Sphere - it does outscale Shocking Grasp on damage eventually (10.5+7/spell level versus 13+6.5/level) against enemies who don't meet the metal conditions. (Also, the half damage at range on a miss on the 3-action version is nice)
Spell level six-onward, Horizon Thunder Sphere does surpass Shocking Grasp's average damage. Both spells start facing competition from Disintegrate at that level though, and the optional extra actions to cast it aren't appealing to a Magus given they still want those actions to spellstrike and recharge, and that spell slot for something big to spellstrike with. The three-action and 2-round version of the spell can't combine with spellstrike.
Edit: On Force Fang, it's worth noting that it's a conflux spell that does not involve a strike. Which means you can recharge your spellstrike and then use it without MAP on the same turn. While the later buffing conflux spells can also do that, none of the melee study conflux spells do, so it's the earliest you can get that benefit.
Oh definitely. It's one reason I like the spell for some hybrid studies. ;)
Doesn't change my rating but you are right that it's worth noting. Added.
You don't need to be in Arcane cascade for Shroud, it actually makes you enter Cascade when you use it.
I just wanted to add that you have made shade of tempest.
It only affect your enemy.
That said, i quite impress by the guide.
I just wanted to add that you have made shade of tempest.
It only affect your enemy.
That said, i quite impress by the guide.
I must've latched onto the flavor description of vengeful spirits slain by enemy and ally alike and missed that it only mentioned enemies from there on. Thank you for catching that. ;)
Fixed.
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Okay! Big update! Faction Archetypes have been added to the guide. Part of the reason it took so long is that I don't use too many archetypes on any of my characters so this involved a lot more white-room analysis than other sections of the guide (so any first-hand input would be greatly appreciated).
The other reason is I made the mistake to get them all done in a batch before adding it to the guide; won't be doing that again I'll tell you what! Next archetypes I add are going to be put in incrementally rather than all at once.
That said, next on the agenda is The Skeleton Ancestry from the Book of the Dead, along with other content from that same book once I've gone over it!
Trying to provide a detailed analysis on archetypes is proving to be a significantly more daunting task than I took it for, especially since the more I analyze the more white-room analysis I have to do. Not to mention, Paizo is just going to keep adding more and more (keep up the good work all of you!). Much as I'd hate to do so I'm considering down-sizing the archetypes section but...
1.) Not sure if I really should, any down-sizing would mean a less thorough analysis I fear may not help readers.
2.) Even if I do, not sure how to best do so and still retain some useful advice.