Boons and Character level?


Rules Questions


This is more of a 'where did I see that'.

I remember reading somewhere that Deity Boons scale off of character level, not class level.

Where did I see that?

I have reread Deific Boon, and Evangelist (PrC) and haven't found it

The Exchange

Deific Obedience

They scale off Hit Dice. (Which for most PCs is equal to character level.)

Liberty's Edge

Belafon wrote:

Deific Obedience

They scale off Hit Dice. (Which for most PCs is equal to character level.)

Unless you take one of the prestige classes that require a deific obedience (or derivates). Those generally have a faster progression.


Diego Rossi wrote:
Belafon wrote:

Deific Obedience

They scale off Hit Dice. (Which for most PCs is equal to character level.)

Unless you take one of the prestige classes that require a deific obedience (or derivates). Those generally have a faster progression.

It grants entry into it earlier but does it still scale off of your character level?


Minigiant wrote:
It grants entry into it earlier but does it still scale off of your character level?

Yes. Look at the rules from the prestige class which grants the early access. For example:

Sentinel wrote:
When a divine boon grants a spell-like ability, the sentinel’s caster level for the spell-like ability equals his total character level.


Minigiant wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:
Belafon wrote:

Deific Obedience

They scale off Hit Dice. (Which for most PCs is equal to character level.)

Unless you take one of the prestige classes that require a deific obedience (or derivates). Those generally have a faster progression.
It grants entry into it earlier but does it still scale off of your character level?

Boons normally progress accordinf to your Hit Dice... not character level, or class level. The feat Diverse Obedience can also accelerate the progression, but it is still based on Hit Dice.

Archetypes like Divine Paragon [Cleric] grant both early entry and accelerated progression that depends on your class level in that class [with that archetype] to continue the accelerated progression.

Divine Paragon's Devoted Domain pretty much sums it up perfectly:
A divine paragon is intensely devoted to a single deity, and her alignment must be identical to her deity’s alignment. She gains Deific Obedience as a bonus feat, even if she doesn’t meet the feat’s prerequisites. She gains access to her boons at an accelerated rate (see below) rather than the standard HD-based rate granted by Deific Obedience (and as such cannot benefit from the accelerated rate granted by the Deific Obedience feat).


MargarineMeadow wrote:
Minigiant wrote:
It grants entry into it earlier but does it still scale off of your character level?

Yes. Look at the rules from the prestige class which grants the early access. For example:

Sentinel wrote:
When a divine boon grants a spell-like ability, the sentinel’s caster level for the spell-like ability equals his total character level.

What about other boons, that aren't spell-like abilities?


Minigiant wrote:
MargarineMeadow wrote:
Minigiant wrote:
It grants entry into it earlier but does it still scale off of your character level?

Yes. Look at the rules from the prestige class which grants the early access. For example:

Sentinel wrote:
When a divine boon grants a spell-like ability, the sentinel’s caster level for the spell-like ability equals his total character level.
What about other boons, that aren't spell-like abilities?

Nothing in the prestige class changes how they scale, so they continue to scale as normal… and since normal is based on HD, they scale with HD.


Rules wrote:
Note that there are a number of effects and prerequisites that rely on a character’s level or Hit Dice. Such effects are always based on the total number of levels or Hit Dice a character possesses, not just those from one class. The exception to this is class abilities, most of which are based on the total number of class levels that a character possesses of that particular class.

Boons are not class abilities, ergo, they scale off of total hit dice/character level, and not just levels in a particular class.


willuwontu wrote:
Rules wrote:
Note that there are a number of effects and prerequisites that rely on a character’s level or Hit Dice. Such effects are always based on the total number of levels or Hit Dice a character possesses, not just those from one class. The exception to this is class abilities, most of which are based on the total number of class levels that a character possesses of that particular class.
Boons are not class abilities, ergo, they scale off of total hit dice/character level, and not just levels in a particular class.

Does that include Boons that reference other class abilities

E.G Collective Vision

AoN wrote:
Collective Vision (Su) When using the vision of madness granted power from the Madness domain, you can target creatures within 30 feet of you instead of having to touch a single target. You can target a maximum number of creatures equal to 1 for every 4 Hit Dice you have (maximum 5). If you don’t have access to the Madness domain, you instead gain the ability to use the basic version of the vision of madness granted power, touching a single target as a melee touch attack, a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier, as listed in the vision of madness description.

Which specifically refers to Visions of Madness that specifically refers to Cleric levels

AoN wrote:
Vision of Madness (Sp): You can give a creature a vision of madness as a melee touch attack. Choose one of the following: attack rolls, saving throws, or skill checks. The target receives a bonus to the chosen rolls equal to 1/2 your cleric level (minimum +1) and a penalty to the other two types of rolls equal to 1/2 your cleric level (minimum –1). This effect fades after 3 rounds. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.


The penalty from Vision of Madness/Collective Vision is absolutely tied to your Cleric levels, not your Hit Dice.

The number of targets you can hit with Collective Vision is tied to your Hit Dice.

What is actual question, here? We seem to be going in circles.


VoodistMonk wrote:


What is actual question, here? We seem to be going in circles.

Collected Vision makes no sense.

If you do not have the madness domain, you gain Vision of Madness from the Boon, but then it doesn't work because you have no cleric levels

The Exchange

I don't know what the writer of Collective Vision intended.

Having gotten that out of the way, the way the ability reads: If you don't have cleric levels, your bonus and penalties granted are always +1/-1. (Because those are the minimums.)

If you do have cleric levels (and the Madness domain) you can use Vision of Madness as usual, or can grant the bonuses/penalties to 1 creature per 4 HD you have.


Minigiant wrote:

Does that include Boons that reference other class abilities

E.G Collective Vision

Collective Vision does not reference Vision of Madness (or rather, the first part doesn't), it modifies it. As usual in such situations, anything not explicitly modified stays as written, and thus the numeric value of the penalty is still dependant on Cleric level.

Minigiant wrote:
but then it doesn't work because you have no cleric levels

But it does work, as both variables dependant on Cleric level have a minimum value.

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