What are your Book of the Dead character concepts?


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion

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As the title indicates I'm curious to see, in a similar vein to the Dark Archive PCs thread, if the upcoming Book of the Dead has inspired any particular character concepts! Personally I'm excited to bring back my mummy monk back from the days of 3.5

Liberty's Edge

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A long time ago, I imagined a young boy who had a Skeleton Warrior friend, even though the boy was not Evil at all.

I pegged the boy as an Oracle of Bones in PF1.

Now, I get to play his undead friend, likely as a Skeleton Fighter.

Skeleton Bard sounds deliciously macabre too.


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The Raven Black wrote:

A long time ago, I imagined a young boy who had a Skeleton Warrior friend, even though the boy was not Evil at all.

I pegged the boy as an Oracle of Bones in PF1.

Now, I get to play his undead friend, likely as a Skeleton Fighter.

Skeleton Bard sounds deliciously macabre too.

The Skeleton Bard must, of course, take the Virtuosic Performer feat so that they can be excellent at playing their own ribcage like a xylophone.


Skeleton Summoner with Undead Eidolon. It's a skeleton Party.


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A Mummy using the Time Mystery coming in Dark Archive is my current frontrunner, as is a Vampire Psychic (potentially as a Jalmeray-Geb attache of some sort). A Ghoul Ranger devoted to Tanagaar, like the cult in Extinction Curse, would also be a blast.

The rest of my ideas need an Inquisitor class to really work.


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Lately I'm interested in characters with weird connections to powerful characters in the world. Maybe a witch with a connection to the lich Takaral (the lich that serves Nethys as his expert on Necromancy), or someone who carries his blood.


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Can I be an undead Leshy? I'm pretty curious about what that would be like.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
PossibleCabbage wrote:
Can I be an undead Leshy? I'm pretty curious about what that would be like.

Great question. I don't see why not really. After all, Leshy Dhampir exist. Anything animated via positive energy should, theoretically, be able to be animated with negative energy.


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I am currently considering a lich themed off the psychic lich from PF1E whose soul cage is their memoir, and who keeps trying to find someone to publish more copies of it.

I am also thinking of making a neutral or good mummy, not sure of class, who was a retainer for a particularly cruel lord who had their servants mummified along with them. The reanimating rituals failed, however, so the only one who awoke properly will be this retainer, who promptly takes all their boss' old stuff, flees the tomb, and tries to scam that lord's descendants out of their ill-gotten wealth.


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Oh, I should say: I’m ravenous for a good Vampire Android idea:


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Urgathoa is not only my favorite deity in pathfinder but she was one of the factors that got me hooked into the system. Very excited to draft up a ghoul cleric in her service and if possible, go down the lich route (if opened up to divine casters).


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I love skeletons, if I don't just straight up build a Skeleton Magus or something, I was debating something with an animal companion so I could have a dog that gnaws on my leg. If i was looking to make a summoner, beast eidolon would also have potential for this concept.

Liberty's Edge

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An undead CG Champion of Arazni who tries to find and help/avenge those who were turned undead without their consent. And exterminate those who abuse undead.

They likely were a NG Champion of Pharasma who got turned undead by an Evil enemy just to spite them and their goddess.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

As posted in the Dark Archive character thread.

Spoiler:
Ly'ualdre wrote:

Vetala-Born Dhampir Infinte Eye Psychic, with a third eye, often seen with all of them closed. Not exactly sure what their shtick is yet.

As posted on the Knights of Lastwall product page.

Spoiler:
Ly'ualdre wrote:
"A fallen Knight buried amongst the heroes of Roslar's Tomb, Sir Arok Gallowmere awoke in a ruined church of Iomadae, after centuries of death, to find that he had been risen been risen from his grave by the Radiant Fire. Nothing more than skeletal reamins, Sir Arok roamed the Gravelands for several years as a mindless thrall of the undead horde plaguing the land. Uncertain how or why he had regained his mind and soul, the undead knight has taken up his sword once more to renew the oath of his fallen brethren and order, and rid the nation of Lastwall of the scourge of undeath."
Ly'ualdre wrote:
"Somewhere in the Deadland, an unlikely group of adventures walk into a crypt. A Duskwalker Summoner and their Psychopomp Eidolon, an Mortic Orc Warpriest of Gorum, the Ghost of a Halfling Inquisitor of Pharasma, and a Dhampir Oracle of Bones; lead by the Skeletal remains of one Sir Arok of Gallowmere, undead Paladin of Iomadae. Together, they have vowed to rid the land of the undead plague."

Alongside these, I've way to many others to list. But a few are:

Spoiler:
-Aleysa von Lyndale [Aleys for shor], aka the Crimson Princess; Female Human Vampire [Moroi, if Vampire Lineage is a choice], Witch [Patron: TBD] -- The daughter of a lesser noble family whose village/estate was decimated by Vampires. She was on the verge of death when the Vampire Lord sensed potential in her and turned her. It was at this time that her latent Witch abilities manifested, further fueled by the possessed cat-shaped Poppet named Cheshire. She believed her magic stemmed from her Lord, but when he was destroyed by a rival Vampire, she realized this was not the case. Free from her servitude, she set out to find whatever source of power fueled her undeath. In 1e, she was a Gravewalker, so I'm hoping for some new Witch options. She is meant to have the body of an adolescent, having been turned at a young age. Since there aren't any rules to play Small Humans, she's just ever so slightly bigger than a Halfling or Gnome; therefore being Medium in size. She is loosely based on Alice in Wonderland; the Wonderland (Underland?) being the realm of Vampires she finds herself in. Further note, she was originally concepted as a major villain.

- Aleister Faust; Male Half-Elf Dhampir [Moroi-born?], Bard? [Muse: TBD] -- Born to Elven father and Human mother, who was bitten by Vampire while still pregnant. She changed, killing her husband in the process, before giving birth to her child. The fledgling Vampire was eventually hunted down and destroyed, the newborn babe left in the care of a local Milliner. <Long story short, Aleister eventually comes to serve Aleys. Originally a Witchguard Ranger in 1e, but considering making him a Bard, with Aleys as his Muse, gaining his magic from her Patron through her. He is combination of Alister Crowley, Faust, and the Mad Hatter. To that extent, he is likely going to be insane, and may even be a Thaumaturge, to play on Crowley being an Occultist.> Originally concepted as a "major" villain, in so far as his relation to Aleys.

- Iezebel Lowell; Female Human [maybe a Duskwalker]; Cleric of Urgathoa [likely with Undead Master Archetype] -- Once a Cleric of Pharasma, serving as a mortician, midwife, and sometimes healer. One day, a wounded stranger came to her church, whom she fell in love with. But, despite her efforts, the man succumbed to his injuries. She couldn't understand why her Goddess would allow her this happiness. She turned to dark necromantic magics, eventually turning to worshipping Urgathoa, and managing to resurrect her lover. Nsatisfied with his mindless state, she eventually joins the Whispering Way, hoping to find a means of awakening her lover and achieving undeath for herself, so that they may spend eternity together. Originally concepted as a major villain, with Johnny being her undead lover. May separate the two into individuals and tie her to a different character.

- Johnny "Wayne" Walker, aka Undertaker; Male Human [maybe Half-Orc], Gunslinger [Pistolero] -- <Another villain. Go figure, right?> An outlaw in life, the man known as Wayne Walker was a member and co-founder of the Tombstone Gang, a band of outlaws. Wayne was betrayed by his partner and left for dead, before being found by a Pharsman cleric. The woman nursed him back to health and fell in love with him, until he was killed. Distraught, she turned to necromancy and raised him from the dead as a zombie lord. Fights wielding a pair of pepperboxes (originally revolvers) named Payne & Suffering. As I said, likely to separate the Johnny and Iezebel. Appearance wise, his face resembles that of Jonah Hex. Western outlaw/cowboy played straight, more or less.

Az'fell the Forgotten King; Male Skelton Lich, Wizard -- A forgotten king, from a forgotten kingdom, in a forgotten land. When he awoke, he found himself sealed in a tomb, with no memory of anything, only an amulet around his neck, and the remains of a spellbook, with the only legible words being "...king...Az...fell....". Determined to discover who he is, the lich has taken to explore the deepest ruins and dungeons to find what he has forgotten. <Actually have a considerable amount of backstory for this guy. But it isn't quite as solid as some of the others. What I presented was actually conceived as I typed this post, meant to allow his character be a little more open ended for others to use.>

- !!BONUS CHARACTER!! Unnamed, Leshy Lich -- Why? For no other reason than that I find it adorable to think about.

I have so many other ideas, but these are the ones I like the most (or can recall atm).


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I will be combining Book of the Dead and Guns & Gears to run a campaign where all of the PCs are undead cowboys, set in Utah in the 1880s. I'm exited to see what my players will come up with!


I wonder if the Pale Stranger is going to show up in Book of the Dead's bestiary.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Perpdepog wrote:
I wonder if the Pale Stranger is going to show up in Book of the Dead's bestiary.

I believe they were mentioned on the last Paizo Live, iirc.

Off topic, but on the subject of gunslinging so-and-so's; I came to the realization last night, while going through my ever expansive list of character concepts, I have one inspired by Baiken and had the brilliant idea to integrate a dragon pistol or hand cannon to a prosthesis arm to represent Baikens own weapon arm. This also works well for other concepts, like a Barrett expy with a integrated pepperbox, or an Automoton or Android with an integrated hand cannon as a Megaman expy.

Thanks for coming to my Gun Talk.


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keftiu wrote:
Oh, I should say: I’m ravenous for a good Vampire Android idea:

NOS-4-A2


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Dimity wrote:
I will be combining Book of the Dead and Guns & Gears to run a campaign where all of the PCs are undead cowboys, set in Utah in the 1880s. I'm exited to see what my players will come up with!

As someone who generally dislikes having guns in campaigns I’ve run and played in (yes not everyone enjoys the gunslinger etc) this sounds like a campaign idea I would be interested in playing. Hands out hero points for changing my mind on the idea of having guns in a campaigns setting that sounds like it would be a blast to play in.

Liberty's Edge

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Ly'ualdre wrote:
Perpdepog wrote:
I wonder if the Pale Stranger is going to show up in Book of the Dead's bestiary.

I believe they were mentioned on the last Paizo Live, iirc.

Off topic, but on the subject of gunslinging so-and-so's; I came to the realization last night, while going through my ever expansive list of character concepts, I have one inspired by Baiken and had the brilliant idea to integrate a dragon pistol or hand cannon to a prosthesis arm to represent Baikens own weapon arm. This also works well for other concepts, like a Barrett expy with a integrated pepperbox, or an Automoton or Android with an integrated hand cannon as a Megaman expy.

Thanks for coming to my Gun Talk.

And now I need to make Space Adventure Cobra in PF2.

Wayfinders

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A petty and moderately tomb robber who stole one too many haunted divine amulets, and while they can now channel their power, they also have to deal with the curse brought upon themselves.

(Undecided ancestry, the new grave robber background, rogue with the eldritch trickster racket, the oracle archetype from said racket, and bones or ancestors as the mystery, though the ancestors here are more like the ghosts of all the people they robbed the tombs of...Or possibly some other mystery depending on what kinda tombs they were breaking into exactly.)


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A dhampir skeleton with the dragon disciple archetype and the amnesiac background, so that I don't have to figure out how a half-vampire half-dragon skeleton came about in the first place.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
WWHsmackdown wrote:
keftiu wrote:
Oh, I should say: I’m ravenous for a good Vampire Android idea:
NOS-4-A2

"I vant to siphon your data. Blegh blegh blegh."

With all due respect, I will be stealing this.

The Raven Black wrote:
And now I need to make Space Adventure Cobra in PF2.

The idea is made all the more interesting when one incorporates the Shifter Prosthesis to the mix. Introducing a Greater Shifter Prosthesis that allows one to store 3 or even 4 weapons? Not only do they get to keep a functioning hand, but makes to possible to create characters like Baiken or Sekiro, with a literal bags of tricks up their sleeves.

----
That aside and back on topic, more ideas from my trove of half-baked ideas!!!

Spoiler:
- Skelton, Boltslinger (aka Gunslinger w/ crossbows) -- The skeletal remains of fallen arbalist wearing the armor and uniform of an ancient kingdom. The only thing they recall are the last orders they received, "Protect the Queen." They are determined to do so. --- Way: Vanguard; WoC: Heavy Crossbow

- Male Human (or Mortic, if in BotD), Cleric of Zura (w/ maybe Bloatmage Archetype, if in DA) -- A gluttonous and obese southern man, with a taste for living flesh and blood, seeking to ascend to the same vampireic form of his goddess. In order to achieve this, he believes one must indulge in the still quivering flesh and vibrant blood of the living, while still bearing vitality yourself. --- Doctrine: Cloistered; WoC: Rapier

- Female Elf Ghoul, Monk and/or Cleric of Fumeiyoshi -- A fallen priestess of Pharasma, corrupted and killed by a follower Fumeiyoshi. Risen as a Ghoul, she took to worshipping the Lord of Envy, and. Now seeks to corrupt and punish the living. <100% based on the Corrupted Monk Yao from Sekiro> --- Doctrine: Warpriest, WoC: Naginata

- Male Elf Ghost, Champion of Tsukiyo -- The lost spirit of an Elven samurai, bound to the Material Plane through a sense of duty to his family and clan. Roams the lands, enacting the will of his deity. <This one is a little weak in the story department. Originally the Dedication Phantom of his Spiritualist sister.> --- Cause: Paladin, WoC: Spear

- Female Human -or Half-Elf Duskwalker?, Wizard? [Hallowed Necromancer] -- An undead hunting mage, searching for her former master, a Lich who betrayed their organization. <still working on this one> --- WoC: Scythe

Grand Archive

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Rojas, the skeleton champion of Shelyn that came back from the dead because his tomb has fallen into disrepair.


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Kyros, Skeleton Barbarian, Spirit Instinct. Once a loyal Redeemer of Pharasma, who led his adventuring party again and again against necromancers and other traffickers int he undead, offering redemption or death. Unfortunately, they assaulted one evil mastermind too many, were slaughtered, and their bodies dumped into ground so deconsecrated that they could not pass on... and then left there when the master of the place fled from another adventuring band that came to challenge him before he'd had a chance to rebuild his undead armies.

Over a decade passed while Kyros and his allies struggled to free themselves and pass on... and then the necromancer returned, hoping to use them as his next set of raw materials. It had been too long, though, and they had learned too much. In a moment of rage, Kyros and his fellow party members bent what will they had together and managed to return him to horrible unlife, allowing him to pick up his blade once again and murder his would-be master. Now, having betrayed the principles of his Cause, and having become anathema to his goddess, assisted by the spirits of his dead companions, Kyros quests in the hopes of somehow finding redemption for himself.


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Skeleton tyrant with maybe some casting archetype to make a deathknight (I wonder if there will be a dedicated deathknight archetype to compliment lich). Undead summoner with undead master archetype who is a dhampir halfling (for familiar) with animate dead spells to create a horde necromancer. Mummy cleric bc the imagery is too perfect. Undead bloodline sorc with vampire archetype to create a traditional vampire (after making a psychic vampire first). Ghoul wizard, Albert D. Ghoulie, esquire, the third.


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Pathfinder Pawns, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I am amazed at the number of undead Pharasma worshippers I'm seeing here.


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Ravingdork wrote:
I am amazed at the number of undead Pharasma worshippers I'm seeing here.

It's an obvious source of dissonance to play with, and a nice bit of blatant moustache-twirling evil for various characters in the backstory to have indulged in without invoking anything that would be real-world creepy.

Actually... I notice an entertaining thought. Let's try a bit of follow-up.

/*************/

Lady Serena: CG Gebbite aristocrat, Undead Summoner, and loyal follower of Arazni (possibly MC cleric).

Lady Serena has been... sheltered. Her parents died young to palace intrigues, leaving her in the care of an elderly lich of her family, who had half-forgotten about how to raise a child, but not at all forgotten their fierce desire to protect what was left of their line. As she grew, she asked the occasional difficult question about the moral implications of her house's place in the world... and got increasingly inaccurate answers from her caretaker, who could not bear to be thought badly of by her one link to the living bloodline. Her family had, on the whole, been pretty normal for Gebbite nobility. She, on the other hand, was raised with a profound feeling of noblesse oblige, alongside her ideas about the undead state - that it was a blessing, to be received with honor and dignity, and that inflicting it on the unwilling was a horrible perversion of what should be a sacred act, punishable by death... with no chance of unlife to follow. It's the most terrible punishment she knows.

Somewhere along the way, she became a mildly heretical follower of Arazni... though no more objectionable to the goddess than most *other* followers of Arazni. Then... well, she achieved her age of mortal majority. She was exposed tot he world outside of her carefully cultivated enclave. She was horrified. She ran, enraged and near tears, back to her caretaker, who... well, lied some more about it. I mean, what did you expect? She demanded the opportunity to try to right some of these terrible wrongs, as was the solemn duty of her line and the liche gave in, rather than damage the good opinion that it so cherished. An undead servitor was bound to her, she was straight magic, and a year later, she went out into the world to Make Things Right.

She's recently taken up adventuring with Kyros. He finds he appreciates the company, in a grumpy sort of way. She's willing to spend time with him without freaking out, for one thing. That's nice. She also sympathizes with his feelings of violation, and supports him in his desires for righteous revenge, even when he's not entirely comfortable with them himself. The fact that she keeps trying to convince him to embrace and welcome his new undead state as an blessing, though... that's a little creepy.

/********/

Because "Miserable ex-Pharasmite unwilling undead" and "Cheerful pro-undead follower of Arazni" really make a delicious sort of odd couple.

...and in a more general way, Arazni works well in general for "plausible goddess of non-evil pro-undead character"


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Ravingdork wrote:
I am amazed at the number of undead Pharasma worshippers I'm seeing here.

I think it's the same impulse that gets people to look at an AP plot and "do the opposite". But I can't see an undead person to be someone Pharasma will really welcome into her flock, at best it's "it's good that you think this way, but I'm really going to need for you to end your unlife posthaste."

The deity for good and neutral characters who are undead and unhappy about it but who aren't just going to give up and walk into the sun/onto their sword is Arazni. She should still have followers in Geb even, since she used to run the place and invariably some people are going to prefer the old leader to the new one.


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PossibleCabbage wrote:
I think it's the same impulse that gets people to look at an AP plot and "do the opposite". But I can't see an undead person to be someone Pharasma will really welcome into her flock, at best it's "it's good that you think this way, but I'm really going to need for you to end your unlife posthaste."

This is what I think of when I think undead who worships Pherasma. Their adventuring career would be pretty short, unless they can find a way to be resurrected, and would mostly consist of them throwing themselves repeatedly at every powerful undead they can find, since win or lose they are improving the multiverse's longevity.


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PossibleCabbage wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
I am amazed at the number of undead Pharasma worshippers I'm seeing here.

I think it's the same impulse that gets people to look at an AP plot and "do the opposite". But I can't see an undead person to be someone Pharasma will really welcome into her flock, at best it's "it's good that you think this way, but I'm really going to need for you to end your unlife posthaste."

The deity for good and neutral characters who are undead and unhappy about it but who aren't just going to give up and walk into the sun/onto their sword is Arazni. She should still have followers in Geb even, since she used to run the place and invariably some people are going to prefer the old leader to the new one.

Sure, but the dissonance there is really part of the point. Like, yeah, Pharasma's response is going to be that you need to end yourself ASAP... but at some level they don't want to do that, so they wind up coming up with justifications or reasons or whatever, and then being super-unhappy about it because they know that they can't actually be a good follower of Pharasma while also being undead. It's an instant, potent source of internal struggle. This is also why, while many of them were priests or champions initially, none of them still are (or at least not of Pharasma) because she wouldn't have them.

I mean, eventually they work through their issues and either end themselves (less likely) or find a new deity to worship (more likely)... but this is the beginning of their journey, when they haven't really worked that stuff out for themselves yet.


Just reminding that resurrection is a possible third option.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

There's also the fact that there isn't actually any in-world lore that implies Pharasma herself would direct an undead worshiper to destroy themselves. Certainly a likely scenario, but I imagine it's more likely that she would instruct her living followers to seek out these undead outcasts and rid them from the world themselves; if the Psychopomps don't beat them to the punch.

Granted, if a true follower of Pharasma was brought back as an undead, they are likely to just off themselves I'd imagine. This may be a tad bit difficult for certain undead to do such an act. Mind you though, it is implied that Pharasma frowns upon self-destruction as well, I'd think even if that meant ending their undead existence. So it kind of places them in a conundrum I feel. Destroy that which they and their Goddess abhors or risk their afterlife? Chances are, they'd likely seek to be destroyed by another's hand. If so, why not continue to spread the word and dogma of the Lady of Graves until then? Or find another lease on... er... unlife through another Deity or cause? They'll probably end up seeking out a new path, i.e. class, to do this, since a Cleric or Champion is very likely to have their divine might stripped from them. But, if they can continue to do some good in the world, why not? Who knows. Maybe Pharasma could even one day embrace her less than living followers if enough of them served her cause. At least, that's probably what an undead would think anyways.

Of course, this only applies to those followers who don't simply embrace their new existence. After all, the negative energy that fuels the creation of undead often causes them to be evil due to its perversion of life.

Another thing, there is an in-world example of potential undead Pharasmin worshipers, albeit heretical ones. The Chymists of Life in Death, a secret sect of the Church of Pharasma that seeks to bypass Pharasma's strictures on undead creation by doing so through Alchemical means. There isn't an alignment given to them, but one could assume they are just as likely to remain largely neutral just as much as they are to be evil. They still worship Pharasma, but probably adhere to her various other edicts. They are still unlikely to be Clerics or Champions, but that isn't gonna stop their dedication to Pharasma.

Perpdepog wrote:
Just reminding that resurrection is a possible third option.

Resurrection magic is powerful stuff though. So unless they undead in question was capable of doing it themselves or had an ally who was readily capable and available to do so, they'd likely have to seek it out, which would mean continuing their undead existence until they can. Doing it themselves is likely only going to be possible for spellcasters that don't rely on Pharasma to supply them with their magic as well.


Pathfinder Pawns, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Anyone here see the THE FARAWAY PALADIN?

There's an undead priestess who (to her great pain) worships an anti-undead deity. Might make for some good inspiration, perhaps?


Doesn't Pharasma send a high level psychopomp to fix, with violence if necessary, the fact that some of the PCs might have interacted enough with the Soul Anchor that would allow them to retain their memories in the afterlife?

If she's willing to go to those lengths to 4 people who aren't even necessarily Pharasmins (our Hell's Rebels group didn't have one), I imagine she's going to pay close attention to any of her people that end up undead.

Wayfinders

RiverMesa wrote:

A petty and moderately tomb robber who stole one too many haunted divine amulets, and while they can now channel their power, they also have to deal with the curse brought upon themselves.

(Undecided ancestry, the new grave robber background, rogue with the eldritch trickster racket, the oracle archetype from said racket, and bones or ancestors as the mystery, though the ancestors here are more like the ghosts of all the people they robbed the tombs of...Or possibly some other mystery depending on what kinda tombs they were breaking into exactly.)

Ack, this was supposed to say "moderately desperate tomb robber" but I forgot about it and only realized it past the edit window. Ah well.

I've had another concept since, though some details still TBD (I rarely have fully formed characters this far in advance anyway):

A former Quick from Geb, who ran afoul of some petty necromancer and eventually found themselves murdered and raised as an unwilling undead minion, mostly in a muscle/bodyguard kind of capacity. However, their free will did not entirely vanish with their death and reanimation, and one day, through a combination of luck, sheer willpower, and possibly even a divine blessing from Arazni, they broke free from their master's control, slew them, and have been a free-willed undead since, coming to terms with their new unlife, now navigating Geb society from a very different position than before.

(Skeleton ancestry, ??? background, a martial class like fighter, possibly champion of Arazni or some such.)


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
PossibleCabbage wrote:


If she's willing to go to those lengths to 4 people who aren't even necessarily Pharasmins (our Hell's Rebels group didn't have one), I imagine she's going to pay close attention to any of her people that end up undead.

Soul Anchors are specific magical nonsense that mess with the river of souls.

By and large, Pharasma and her agents tend to come across as pretty indifferent or ineffectual when it comes to dealing with undead.


I hope that the lich archetype isn't locked to being an arcane caster. There is a dry lich cleric D&D 3.5 PC I'd like to convert over to PF2E.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
PossibleCabbage wrote:

Doesn't Pharasma send a high level psychopomp to fix, with violence if necessary, the fact that some of the PCs might have interacted enough with the Soul Anchor that would allow them to retain their memories in the afterlife?

If she's willing to go to those lengths to 4 people who aren't even necessarily Pharasmins (our Hell's Rebels group didn't have one), I imagine she's going to pay close attention to any of her people that end up undead.

As Squiggit points out, Soul Anchors are a form of magical item created by very deliberately tampering with the River of Souls, usually by followers of Mahathallah. Having once been a Psychopomp herself, it's no wonder Pharasma would take keen interest in them, esp since they are messing with the River of Souls to do it. Also, they were created specifically for one to retain their memories in the afterlife. Being undead doesn't really fall into that category. As it stands, there are various forms of undead life, usually the ones that either seek undeath or or converted by other undead creatures, usually retain their memories, or a portion of them anyways. So idk if she is really concerned about targeting those undead who have memories.

Perpdepog wrote:
I hope that the lich archetype isn't locked to being an arcane caster. There is a dry lich cleric D&D 3.5 PC I'd like to convert over to PF2E.

In case you missed it, I went ahead and transcribed the contents of the Lich page shown during Paizo Live. Long story short, their is a sidebar on the Lich that describes the various motivations that each Caster class might have to become a Lich. It basically says Druid and Cleric Liches are a rarity, but does not exclude their existence. In conclusion, every spellcaster should be able to take it. Arcane are simply the most common examples.


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Pathfinder Pawns, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Squiggit wrote:
By and large, Pharasma and her agents tend to come across as pretty indifferent or ineffectual when it comes to dealing with undead.

Well that's certainly the case if this thread is any indication. Her agents keep dying and joining the forces of the enemy! XD

Liberty's Edge

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Ravingdork wrote:
Squiggit wrote:
By and large, Pharasma and her agents tend to come across as pretty indifferent or ineffectual when it comes to dealing with undead.
Well that's certainly the case if this thread is any indication. Her agents keep dying and joining the forces of the enemy! XD

Only PCs, who, by definition, are the exception.


I keep seeing this notion that Pharasma, her followers, and/or the psychopomps must be lazy or indifferent toward their stated objectives of destroying undead. Sometimes there are specific examples cited but often it seems like the logic is that undead still exist in the world, therefore the psychopomps must not be doing anything about it.

I'll grant, by their nature PCs do tend to mop up a large number of undead in their lifetimes, even when they aren't specifically opposing the Whispering Way, so whatever the particulars of the lore, there must be substantial numbers of unslain undead waiting to meet PC swords and spells. Even so, I find it strange to suggest that the host of Pharasmins and psychopomps must be ineffectual if their numerous enemies manage to persevere, as if there are no other significant factors.

Now, if we talk specifically about Pharasma being indifferent, that's a plausibility, even if she is the one who says undead must die. She is an ancient and inscrutable being whose knowledge of what is meant to be dwarfs our limited understanding (ie the setting's authors are free to explain that her seeming indifference or inaction is to some greater unknowable benefit).

For the rest, it would seem that there are untold numbers of living going through the cycle of souls daily. Even just preventing those from becoming undead by happenstance may well be almost a full time job before you get into the question of training up warriors powerful enough to pose a meaningful threat to undead monsters, nations, or even planets.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

The thing about Pathfinder Deities is that they aren't omnipotent, omniscient, or omnipresent. Their view and reach is great indeed, but they can only cover so much ground. Golarion is but one world in a universe filled with life. So they have their work cut out for them. This is why they rely on heralds, servitors, and mortals to promote their agendas and strictures. For its part, Golarion is a huge place, with corners of it yet unexplored by its inhabitants, and creatures leagues more powerful than even their greatest armies. So it's a wonder why you have an undead problem when you have cults like the Whispering Way and Tar-Baphon actively vying for power; or nations like Geb, Ustalav, and the like, where undead are often the status quo instead of the exception. Not to mention that their is an entire planet in Golarion's own star system that is inhabited by undead almost exclusively, as well as an entire plane where they stem from. So it's less that they are ineffective in their pursuits, even if there are likely definitely measures of this, they're just spread thin. Even then, the Gods are fallible, such as Desna releasing the parasitic Gossmar King unto the multiverse. So it's possible for even Pharasma, who no longer is capable of seeing prophesies the way she once did, is capable of making mistakes in her infinite responsibility. But, the matters to which the gods are ever directly involved, or even partly involved, are far and few between. Most fault, if any, are likely on their followers and worshipers, who don't have nearly as much power or knowledge as they.

That said, it is rather amusing to imagine the Lady of Graves many servants are mooks. Lol

Wayfinders

Also, the sheer bureaucratic sprawl of both Pharasma's mortal church(es, since it's a pretty widespread but not globally unified faith) and that of the psychopomps themselves likely slow down any major efforts at stamping out undead that much further, and that's on top of all their other different but no less important duties - after all, Pharasmins aren't purely undead exterminators, they're morticians, scholars and regular everyday clergy as well.


Pathfinder Pawns, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

How about we take it a step further? A worshiper of Pharasma that is not only undead, but actively creates undead. Not because he wants to, but because he has to. Totally unwillingly and contrite of course.

Now that's edgy. Not at all dubious.

;P

Liberty's Edge

My mildly heretical Cleric of Pharasma in PF1 did not create undead, but she took control of them during adventures and destroyed them when they were no longer needed.


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Vampire Poppet Sorceror. Noble background. Favorite cantrip is Ghost Sound, which he habitually keeps sustained for extended periods of time. It means that he has to move a bit slower, but he likes being able to produce atmospherically appropriate thunder on demand without obvious verbal or somatic components. Second favorite cantrip is Approximate, in spite of his frustration at its imprecision.

Ah Ah Ah.


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Pathfinder Pawns, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Sanityfaerie wrote:

Vampire Poppet Sorceror. Noble background. Favorite cantrip is Ghost Sound, which he habitually keeps sustained for extended periods of time. It means that he has to move a bit slower, but he likes being able to produce atmospherically appropriate thunder on demand without obvious verbal or somatic components. Second favorite cantrip is Approximate, in spite of his frustration at its imprecision.

Ah Ah Ah.

ROFL

Oh my gawd I'm dyin'!

*Dies and returns as a Juju zombie.*


I would love it if they had intelligent Juju zombies in the book.

I'd remake this fine fellow from 1st Edition.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Ravingdork wrote:

How about we take it a step further? A worshiper of Pharasma that is not only undead, but actively creates undead. Not because he wants to, but because he has to. Totally unwillingly and contrite of course.

Now that's edgy. Not at all dubious.

;P

- Male Gnome, Alchemist -- Once a priest of Pharasma, this Gnome was excommunicated from the church due to his dissident experiments over life and death, including the creation of undead creatures. Abandoned by his faith, he was take in by the Chymists of Life in Death, a heretical sect of the church determined to explore alchemically induced undeath while maintinging their faith in the Lady of Graves. He turned to alchemy to pursue his studies, keeping his faith in Pharasma and the delusion that, one day, she may see the benefit of his work. <Insert excerpt about the routine of his faith leading to the onset of Bleaching, leading to his heretical experimentations.>

May be a rehash of my 1e Twilight Sage character concept.

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