I am interested to know the interaction between having a mount with pounce and a rider without pounce, and if Mounted Skirmisher would work if the mount pounced?
Or do both the rider and mount have to both move or both charge?
I am looking at the big cat with the mammoth rider
A mounted charge is a charge that both you and your mount make. The rules for pounce are that they can make all attacks as part of a charge. The rules for charge are that without pounce or some other similar ability you can only make a single attack, though mounted charge doubles the damage you deal on a successful hit.
Given the information above, since you are also charging when a mount charges, and charge is a specific full round action, then unfortunately no you cannot make a full attack using Mounted Skirmisher as part of a charge.
At least that's how I interpret it. Anyone else have two cents to give?
The FAQ states that a 'Mounted Charge' is when both mount and rider takes the charge action. But it also brings up the example of when only the mount charges, which means it is possible.
"Note that a "mounted charge" is synonymous with a "charge while mounted," and that when a lance is "when used from the back of a charging mount" it is during a mounted charge not when only the mount charges."
So we could potentially have three different charges going on.
Both charge: Counts as a 'Mounted Charge' for effects such as Spirited Charge and the Lance's special ability.
Only rider charges: Not very intuitive, but Ride-By Attack is such an example. It doesn't actually allow the mount to attack and has been clarified as such from designer input.
Only mount charges: Mount benefits from charging just as if the rider wasn't there. Pounce triggers, the AC penalty is applied. The rider does not take any penalties or benefits from charging (note that this is a direct change to the original rules).
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So if you had Mounted Skirmisher, and your mount pounces but doesn't move more than its speed, you are (both) allowed to take a full-attack.
The FAQ states that a 'Mounted Charge' is when both mount and rider takes the charge action. But it also brings up the example of when only the mount charges, which means it is possible.
"Note that a "mounted charge" is synonymous with a "charge while mounted," and that when a lance is "when used from the back of a charging mount" it is during a mounted charge not when only the mount charges."
So we could potentially have three different charges going on.
Both charge: Counts as a 'Mounted Charge' for effects such as Spirited Charge and the Lance's special ability.
Only rider charges: Not very intuitive, but Ride-By Attack is such an example. It doesn't actually allow the mount to attack and has been clarified as such from designer input.
Only mount charges: Mount benefits from charging just as if the rider wasn't there. Pounce triggers, the AC penalty is applied. The rider does not take any penalties or benefits from charging (note that this is a direct change to the original rules).
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So if you had Mounted Skirmisher, and your mount pounces but doesn't move more than its speed, you are (both) allowed to take a full-attack.
Ah, I stand corrected!
In your defense, the rules for mounted combat are so convoluted that the devs just gave up and created pathfinder 2e instead of trying to salvage them.
Note that as a lance, the go to charging weapon, is a reach weapon, normally you stop before your charging mount gets an attack in. So it can go either way, that you get the charge, the mount gets the charge, or you both get the charge, but the point is you both move and take all bonuses/penalties regardless of how many attacks are made.
That said, I would personally rule that the actual functioning of a pounce and the motions used by creatures that are given the pounce feature are too conflicting with something like a huge impact of a lance/spirited/cavalier charge to continue granting the bonus damage after a first attack.
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Lance: If I have the pounce ability and I charge with a lance, do my iterative lance attacks get the lance's extra damage multiplier from charging?
No, it doesn’t makes sense that those iterative attacks gain the damage bonus. To make that second attack, you have to pull the lance back and stab forward again, and that stab doesn’t have the benefit of the charge’s momentum. (The Core Rulebook doesn’t state that you only get the damage multiplier on the first attack with a lance because when the Core Rulebook was published, there was no way for a PC to charge and get multiple attacks with a weapon in the same round, so that combination didn’t need to be addressed.)
posted March 2012 | back to top
I thought that was the case, and it of course is the answer that makes sense, I just couldn't remember if there was a rule/faq/errata on it.