COOPERATION CRYSTAL


Rules Questions

The Concordance

COOPERATION CRYSTAL can serve as an additional material component or focus. If PC can select as her will, no one will choose material component to cosume it.

Liberty's Edge

Can you cite a spell with which it can be used?

The Power Components described in the Adventurer's Armory had a list of spells with which they could be used, and, for each spell, a specification if they were a Material component or a Focus.

Cooperation Crystal?

Plane-Hopper's Handbook wrote:

COOPERATION CRYSTAL PRICE 300 GP

WEIGHT —
This vibrant blue-green crystal is a distillation of the spirit of cooperation characteristic of the chaotic good plane of Elysium.
When you use a cooperation crystal as a material component or focus for a harmless spell, treat your caster level as 1 higher for the purpose of determining the spell’s duration and effect. This increase doesn’t stack with other effects that raise the caster level of a spell.

No indication (the text on AoN has been rephrased, adding "Spells harmless spells", but that isn't in the original text, and changes the description).

The result? We have 0 "samples of those effects" as cited in the rules for power components and we go with the next piece of text in those rules: "your GM may allow other combinations".

So the GM decides if the power component, used for a specific spell, is a Material component or a Focus.


Diego Rossi wrote:

Can you cite a spell with which it can be used?

The Power Components described in the Adventurer's Armory had a list of spells with which they could be used, and, for each spell, a specification if they were a Material component or a Focus.

Incorrect, Alchemical Power Components were introduced in Adventurer's Armory and list what spells they can be used on with the addition that a GM can make effects for other spells at their discretion.

Planar Power Components were introduced in the Plane-Hopper's handbook, and have an effect when used for any spell that meets the criteria listed in the item's description (you could use them for other spells, but they have no effect).

As for why they're listed as able to be used for both a material or focus component, no one knows. But they're way overpriced if they're used as a material component.


As a focus, it's an okay little trinket... I could see it being useful at low levels to boost buff/healing spells before you have other things boosting your caster level for those spells. It's cheap enough that it could be had really early.

As a material component, it's simply not worth it.

A focus has to be held [in hand], does it not? So I don't see it as something that will ever be, or even can be, abused... most people have better uses of their hands than holding this crystal focus thing to boost harmless spells... if for nothing more than holding more powerful/useful foci.

If there was a question being asked as to why one would ever choose to use it as a material component over a focus? Probably never would choose that, unless you had to have your hands free for other stuff and REALLY needed the effect... then you could burn it as a component without holding it as a focus... you could gain the effects of the crystal without holding it, it is just consumed in the process... sometimes that option might be worth the cost.

Liberty's Edge

willuwontu wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:

Can you cite a spell with which it can be used?

The Power Components described in the Adventurer's Armory had a list of spells with which they could be used, and, for each spell, a specification if they were a Material component or a Focus.

Incorrect, Alchemical Power Components were introduced in Adventurer's Armory and list what spells they can be used on with the addition that a GM can make effects for other spells at their discretion.

Planar Power Components were introduced in the Plane-Hopper's handbook, and have an effect when used for any spell that meets the criteria listed in the item's description (you could use them for other spells, but they have no effect).

As for why they're listed as able to be used for both a material or focus component, no one knows. But they're way overpriced if they're used as a material component.

True but:

Plane-Hopper's handbook wrote:


PLANAR POWER COMPONENTS
Planar power components are fragments of pure planar essence. When used as a material component or focus for a spell, a planar power component infuses the spell with planar energy, enhancing the spell’s effects. You cannot use a planar component as both a focus and a material component at the same time.

don't give any indication on how they can be used. All say is they can be used as a component or focus.

The description of the Planar Power Component says what happens when we use them with a category of spells, but doesn't give us any permission to use it.
Quote:

When you use a cooperation crystal as a material component or

focus for a harmless spell

No permission to use it with the spells, simply a consequence of using it.

As Pathfinder doesn't work with unspoken, implicit permissions, we default to the only authority that can give explicit permission when the rule doesn't give them but leave them undefined, the GM.

Liberty's Edge

VoodistMonk wrote:

As a focus, it's an okay little trinket... I could see it being useful at low levels to boost buff/healing spells before you have other things boosting your caster level for those spells. It's cheap enough that it could be had really early.

As a material component, it's simply not worth it.

A focus has to be held [in hand], does it not? So I don't see it as something that will ever be, or even can be, abused... most people have better uses of their hands than holding this crystal focus thing to boost harmless spells... if for nothing more than holding more powerful/useful foci.

If there was a question being asked as to why one would ever choose to use it as a material component over a focus? Probably never would choose that, unless you had to have your hands free for other stuff and REALLY needed the effect... then you could burn it as a component without holding it as a focus... you could gain the effects of the crystal without holding it, it is just consumed in the process... sometimes that option might be worth the cost.

An Orange Prism Ioun Stone gives us +1 caster level to all spells and is worth 30.000 gp.

A Cooperation Crystal cost 300 gp.
Getting about 1/3 of the effect (I suppose at least 1/3 of the spell cast fall into the harmless category) for 1/100 of the cost is "a bit" unbalanced, don't you think?
Sure, you need a hand (or appendage) to manipulate the spell component or focus, but that is a problem with most spells. You don't need to use different hands for each component and focus, so using it isn't a greater hindrance that usin any other component or focus.

The Exchange

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Yes, we've all hit the nail on the head. Why would anyone ever expend a planar power component as a material component when they could just reuse it over and over as a focus?

They wouldn't.

Someone clearly dropped the ball. Maybe they originally did different things depending on whether they were a focus or a material and that got cut down for space by the layout department without a pass by designers considering the effects. Or maybe the author just really misunderstood spellcasting and no developer caught it. PFS issued a campaign clarification that said "These are all material components. Ignore the part about using them as a focus."

Yet another entry in my ongoing list of situations where it simply isn't possible to come up with a "RAW" answer.

Liberty's Edge

Thanks for pointing out the PFS clarification.

I feel that a GM could choose to allow the use of a Cooperation Crystal as a focus for some specific spell, especially if they have something that makes them "cooperative".
As an example, setting a Cooperation Crystal cut into two pieces in the rings used for Shield Other would be really appropriate. On the other hand, it will make very little difference.
Similarly, allowing its use as a focus for Cure spells (when used to cure) would be appropriate too.

Allowing its use as a focus with spells like Magic Weapon, Greater or Magical Vestment doesn't seem appropriate.

Another facto is the "harmless" tag. Plenty of spells haven't it but don't cause harm, while others can cause harm and have it.

To make two examples:
- Cure Light Wounds: harmless, but it can harm undead;
- Inflict Light Wounds: not-harmless, but it works exactly like Cure Light Wounds, the difference is that it cures undead and harms living things.

That use of the tag is very human-centric and could have been appropriate for the CRB, but we have rules to play Dampyrs and even Ghouls. At this point, that harmless tag is really inappropriate.

The Concordance

Belafon wrote:

PFS issued a campaign clarification that said "These are all material components. Ignore the part about using them as a focus."

Thx. We play under PFS rules. It's helpful to me.

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