What are your favorite guns, and why?


Advice

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Sovereign Court

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Title says it really. There's so many guns, and some of them really only shine for some builds. Some of them, I wonder what build it would take for it to shine.

So what are your favorite guns and what sort of build makes them work well?

I'll start: the Jezails to me really seems like the workhorse for a pistolero. It's technically a 1H gun so you can draw it efficiently, but nothing about your draw ability requires you to draw it one-handed, so you can go directly to Fatal Aim. And of course it's got the biggest damage die of the 1H guns.

I'm also interested in the Hand Cannon because of the very efficient Modular-on-Reload. But the damage isn't super high and it doesn't have fatal, so this isn't really a spike your to hit go critfishing kinda gun. If you're a Drifter and the GM likes using enemies that care about damage type (zombies, skeletons, and higher level versions) then it gets more interesting.

Another one I like for the drifter is the Dwarven Clan Pistol - as far as I can tell, even non-dwarves with access to uncommon guns can take it, that's a weird glitch in the access rules. Decent fatal die that you're fairly likely to trigger if you have a shoot-stab routine (in that order).


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Just the Jezail firearm because of the fatal aim ( I appreciate the mechanics ), but it seems kinda off compared to the other firearms ( which is something I don't really appreciate when it comes to balance ).

Actually, I got extremely disappointed by firearms:

- Clunky as crossbows
- No parry weapon with a good damage die ( unless I missed something, the only 2h with parry weapon, and because so the only existing weapon available for a vanguard, seems to be the mithral tree )
- BeastGuns count as magical weapon ( no property runes, and most of them are quite useless compared because of this ).

Liberty's Edge

Bo staff is 2h with Parry.


The Raven Black wrote:
Bo staff is 2h with Parry.

Yes, but as a novice vanguard I still have to figure out how to shot with it.


I concur about the jezail being strangely balanced. Most of the two-handed martial firearms are sidegrades to the flintlock musket (arquebus has higher damage dice, but also has the kickback trait, the double-barreled musket lacks the kickback trait but needs to be loaded twice to receive an extra kick, harmona gun has higher base damage than the arquebus but lacks the fatal trait, mithral tree is a defensive upgrade with a higher range increment) and then there's the jezail, which can be used two-handed with a d8 damage die and fatal d12 but also wielded one-handed without the fatal trait. Only thing the arquebus has over it is range and +1 damage. It's kind of like they decided halfway through writing the weapons list that the kickback trait was largely unnecessary, which to be fair, it is.

That said, I appreciate what they were trying to do with the slide pistol. It took me a minute to figure out that the intended benefit of the capacity trait wasn't any improvement to action economy but to provide an option for dual wielding handguns for characters without any reload hack that allows it.


I would have liked to see a kickback one handed gun for a drifter. But the clan pistol is my favorite. 80 feet of range on a one handed gun is nice.


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GM_3826 wrote:
That said, I appreciate what they were trying to do with the slide pistol. It took me a minute to figure out that the intended benefit of the capacity trait wasn't any improvement to action economy but to provide an option for dual wielding handguns for characters without any reload hack that allows it.

Or pistol and shield. That also is a good use case for a capacity firearm.

And, for longer battles you can reload one barrel of a capacity weapon for one action - same as a standard crossbow. You can't do that with a repeating weapon.


I've come up with an idea in my head for a Ranger who wields a gunsword, which I think is kind of a neat weapon.

I'd also like to try a gunslinger at some point who uses a Gunslinger's bandoleer and uses a variety of 1-handed guns depending on the situation. He'd have a clan pistol or dueling pistol as his "default" gun, a dragon mouth pistol to deal with swarms, a hand cannon just in case he runs into enemies that require slashing damage to deal with, and an air repeater in case it rains.


Gunsword is a weapon I really want to make a build around, because I love it conceptually.

I agree that the Jezail is probably a little out of line compared to the Arquebus. If you want a 2h gun and don't want kickback (probably because you didn't go to 14 str), the Jezail is a no-brainer.

Harmona Gun. Who doesn't love the big old elephant gun?


Dubious Scholar wrote:

Gunsword is a weapon I really want to make a build around, because I love it conceptually.

I agree that the Jezail is probably a little out of line compared to the Arquebus. If you want a 2h gun and don't want kickback (probably because you didn't go to 14 str), the Jezail is a no-brainer.

Harmona Gun. Who doesn't love the big old elephant gun?

The jezail has it's place. Snipers have options. If you start with 14 str, arquebus is clearly better. If not, you have a gun that does less damage and has less range. It's an interesting option for drifters as well if you plan to punch things.


Harmona gun and jezail.
The first one is pretty obvious since i really like a big 700 nitro express Elephant Gun, the second one is a bit more subtle since I tend to identify it's role as the 44 mag. of the setting.
A big gun that you can one hand but you probably shouldn't because it will loose accuracy (and possibly break your wrist).


Jezail seems like good starting option, unless you have a good strength. With increasing strength/levels arquebus will take it’s place. But kickback and range don’t do so much …… especially as you can ignore range increments at some level. However in theory a jezail can even go into a gunner’s bandolier …


Berhagen wrote:
Jezail seems like good starting option, unless you have a good strength. With increasing strength/levels arquebus will take it’s place. But kickback and range don’t do so much …… especially as you can ignore range increments at some level. However in theory a jezail can even go into a gunner’s bandolier …

The feat you're thinking of is 18th level. But I do see a lot of snipers taking a jezail if they're bumping intelligence or wisdom over strength. Vanguards are probably more likely to pick a kickback gun.


Harmona gun seems like a bummer for a legendary weapon class like the gunslinger to give up fatal, but it performs pretty well with abilities that deal with map like risky reload, dance of thunder, and blast tackle. Good consistent damage. Also the best option for flesh wound on a failure.


I wonder if there's gonna be a "secrets of tech" or something to add some new guns in the future. I'm probably being greedy since GnG has so many, but it feels like there's more room. I'd like to see some crazy advanced guns. Double barrel scatter guns, d8 kickback one handed gun. What else could fit?


aobst128 wrote:
I wonder if there's gonna be a "secrets of tech" or something to add some new guns in the future. I'm probably being greedy since GnG has so many, but it feels like there's more room. I'd like to see some crazy advanced guns. Double barrel scatter guns, d8 kickback one handed gun. What else could fit?

I would be shocked if we didn't get any new guns in the Outlaws of Alkenstar AP backmatter.

I'd probably go for the clan pistol or double-barreled pistol as my personal fave. Double-barreled weapons seem very friendly to duel-wielding gunslingers, which is the sort I'd want to build first, and the clan pistol is just the dueling pistol but longer range and cheaper, so not difficult to decide there.
The slide pistol would also make my list if its bulk wasn't so insanely high.

Also, I like air repeaters more than I thought I would. They are a surprisingly helpful addition to a caster who doesn't know what to do with their third action.


Perpdepog wrote:
aobst128 wrote:
I wonder if there's gonna be a "secrets of tech" or something to add some new guns in the future. I'm probably being greedy since GnG has so many, but it feels like there's more room. I'd like to see some crazy advanced guns. Double barrel scatter guns, d8 kickback one handed gun. What else could fit?

I would be shocked if we didn't get any new guns in the Outlaws of Alkenstar AP backmatter.

I'd probably go for the clan pistol or double-barreled pistol as my personal fave. Double-barreled weapons seem very friendly to duel-wielding gunslingers, which is the sort I'd want to build first, and the clan pistol is just the dueling pistol but longer range and cheaper, so not difficult to decide there.
The slide pistol would also make my list if its bulk wasn't so insanely high.

Also, I like air repeaters more than I thought I would. They are a surprisingly helpful addition to a caster who doesn't know what to do with their third action.

Double barrel pistol is handy. The breech ejectors make the double barrel options go from an ok choice to a darn good one, as long as you have a supply of ejectors. I've got a pistolero with a clan pistol currently. Pistol twirl from 80 feet away is nice.


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The mace multipistol is a bit disappointing for damage dice and range, but it can fire three shots without reloading.

A piercing wind might be a better choice than a gunsword for a combination weapon with the Finesse, Forceful, and Sweep melee properties.

Beast guns are extremely interesting conceptually and the effects can sometimes be more effective than straight damage.


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Dragonchess Player wrote:

The mace multipistol is a bit disappointing for damage dice and range, but it can fire three shots without reloading.

A piercing wind might be a better choice than a gunsword for a combination weapon with the Finesse, Forceful, and Sweep melee properties.

The capacity trait only means that you don't need a free hand to reload it up to it's capacity.


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I love the combination and critical fusion weapons but they just perform as their individual parts, but worst.

In my upcoming iron gods conversion stream I've allowed the gun sword to be a one handed weapon rather than two handed, giving it longsword damage one handed and the ability to shift to gun mode as one action.

Might up it on the power level a bit but otherwise there's really no incentive to use these, and if another player wants a combination weapon I'll problt tweak it to make it appealing too.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Dwarven Scattergun is a favorite pickup of mine for human vanguards. I like big numbers and scatter makes it effectively as big as a harmona gun... plus kickback, which doesn't scale great but is still fun.

Air Repeater is a nice jumping off point for a rogue or bullet dancer if you're looking for ways to make a lot of attacks, it's kind of fun.

Dishonorable mention for almost all combination weapons, what I was most excited for when the book was announced by they feel way too conservative to justify the hoops to jump through to make them work (and gunslingers can't even use their unique feature). Hoping for a combination way in a few years to maybe make them more interesting.


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Honorable mention for a very specific senario in which a drifter using a one handed combination weapon crits their first strike with rebounding assault. You toss your dagger pistol at the enemy scoring a crit and activating critical fusion and discharge it by firing your second strike directly at the trigger causing it to fire itself at great speeds towards your unfortunate target.


Drifters with combination weapons are pretty good with stab and blast. Before then, they're mostly a gimmick.


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What guns might work best for a gunslinger with the spellshot archetype?


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Nikofaust wrote:
What guns might work best for a gunslinger with the spellshot archetype?

Blunderbuss with alchemical shot. Recall knowledge will help identify weaknesses. Alchemical shot will change the damage type of your splash damage, ideally triggering weakness of 2 or more targets. But more likely is a jezail. Dual wielding is also an option with a slide pistol and an air repeater. RK is effective at any range unlike the pistolero's reload.


I'm interested in how kickback is measured for trait budget. It's roughly equivalent to propulsive and that's a neutral trait I'm assuming since bows have propulsive and non propulsive options with no other differences. There's no kickback option for 1 handed guns. I wonder if that's intentional or if they're planning on them in the future. There's precident with regular sling being 1 handed with propulsive. With abilities that can bring it to a d8. So hypothetically, there exists a space for a d8 kickback 1 handed martial firearm. Would be great for a drifter.


aobst128 wrote:
The jezail has it's place. Snipers have options. If you start with 14 str, arquebus is clearly better. If not, you have a gun that does less damage and has less range. It's an interesting option for drifters as well if you plan to punch things.

Give me a good reason for tripods to exist if the intent is that you use an arquebus if you have a +2 Strength modifier or higher or a jezail otherwise.


GM_3826 wrote:
aobst128 wrote:
The jezail has it's place. Snipers have options. If you start with 14 str, arquebus is clearly better. If not, you have a gun that does less damage and has less range. It's an interesting option for drifters as well if you plan to punch things.
Give me a good reason for tripods to exist if the intent is that you use an arquebus if you have a +2 Strength modifier or higher or a jezail otherwise.

If you want more range and damage. Can't the intent go both ways? You can still use both but you have to pay with either stat requirements or action cost with tripods.


aobst128 wrote:
If you want more range and damage. Can't the intent go both ways? You can still use both but you have to pay with either stat requirements or action cost with tripods.

The range on the arquebus is overkill in many cases and +1 damage is an extremely minor bonus. If I had the choice between using a jezail or an arquebus without investing in Strength, I'd use the jezail. They are not created equal.


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GM_3826 wrote:
aobst128 wrote:
The jezail has it's place. Snipers have options. If you start with 14 str, arquebus is clearly better. If not, you have a gun that does less damage and has less range. It's an interesting option for drifters as well if you plan to punch things.
Give me a good reason for tripods to exist if the intent is that you use an arquebus if you have a +2 Strength modifier or higher or a jezail otherwise.

Overly cautious design, resulting in not relevant (or extremely situational) options. A sniper has to effectively move/hide, which is not particularly combinable with the tripod.


GM_3826 wrote:
aobst128 wrote:
If you want more range and damage. Can't the intent go both ways? You can still use both but you have to pay with either stat requirements or action cost with tripods.
The range on the arquebus is overkill in many cases and +1 damage is an extremely minor bonus. If I had the choice between using a jezail or an arquebus without investing in Strength, I'd use the jezail. They are not created equal.

The action cost of tripods is a higher cost than the stats I'd agree. But it's not just snipers that are making the choice. Arquebus is very good for vanguards since they can more easily than most get their strength to 18 to get a more sizable +2. That and their later level abilities specifically call for kickback guns or scatter guns. So it's good that we have 2 different options for snipers without strength and vanguards. I could still see some snipers perching 100+ feet away and using snipers aim when they don't have the actions to set up a tripod.


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Combination weapons are thematically cool but I agree on them being too conservative.

Most of them have anemic damage dice on at least one mode. Most of them suffer from needing STR to hit in melee and DEX at range, which is costly.

In a pure stats situation, the explosive dogslicer is the best, but it doesn't have a lot of shooting range (but it's 1d6 in both modes and uses dex to hit either way at least).

Gun sword is 1d8 either mode and has a respectable 50ft range increment... except that hitting with it in melee requires STR, which is a limiting factor.


Berhagen wrote:
Overly cautious design, resulting in not relevant (or extremely situational) options. A sniper has to effectively move/hide, which is not particularly combinable with the tripod.
aobst128 wrote:
The action cost of tripods is a higher cost than the stats I'd agree. But it's not just snipers that are making the choice. Arquebus is very good for vanguards since they can more easily than most get their strength to 18 to get a more sizable +2. That and their later level abilities specifically call for kickback guns or scatter guns. So it's good that we have 2 different options for snipers without strength and vanguards. I could still see some snipers perching 100+ feet away and using snipers aim when they don't have the actions to set up a tripod.

There's this clause in the description of the tripod:

Quote:
However, deploying or retrieving a tripod with an Interact action doesn't automatically make you observed, so long as you don't set up or remove the tripod when it's in a spot where creatures can see the tripod itself.

In this case, rules as intended seems to be that in an environment where you can afford to stay in one place, you Avoid Notice during exploration, move to a spot where you can see the enemies but they can't see you, set up the tripod, and then roll initiative. If this was intended to balance out the higher damage die, it would make sense. But jezails have the same damage die. I don't think the intent is for vanguards to be the only characters who want to use arquebuses, I think the intent is for snipers to use arquebuses in situations where they can afford to mount the weapon and otherwise stick to a pistol. This intent is ignored because jezails exist. Otherwise if you're playing as a sniper it is best for you to import guns from Vudra, which doesn't reflect the fiction where several career soldiers in Alkenstar are snipers.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Jezail has one drawback that isn't immediately obvious, buried in the fatal aim trait. 2e does like hiding stuff in traits hah.

With a normal 2handed firearm, you can release, do something, then regrip as part of your reload, saving an action. Fatal aim is clear however that it needs an action to change grips on the gun, and it specifically says reload can't do it.

So if you plan on going back to a 2handed grip with a reload, Jezail is going to need an extra action there.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

You also can't hold a weapon or shield (or 'other things') while wielding the Jezail one-handed.

TBH with how restrictive the fatal aim trait is, the Jezail should probably be listed as a two-handed weapon by default. I've seen a lot of players take a cursory glance and assume it's meant to be the firearm equivalent of the two-hand trait, when really it's a lot more limited in one-hand mode.


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CaffeinatedNinja wrote:

Jezail has one drawback that isn't immediately obvious, buried in the fatal aim trait. 2e does like hiding stuff in traits hah.

With a normal 2handed firearm, you can release, do something, then regrip as part of your reload, saving an action. Fatal aim is clear however that it needs an action to change grips on the gun, and it specifically says reload can't do it.

So if you plan on going back to a 2handed grip with a reload, Jezail is going to need an extra action there.

Hmm... That is a good catch. I'm reading that as a bimodal operation. So if you are already using a Jezail two-handed, then you can still change grip and re-grip two-handed for free as part of doing a reload. But if you are using it one-handed, it will still be held one-handed after doing a reload - you don't get to switch to two-handed for free as part of the reload.


GM_3826 wrote:
Berhagen wrote:
Overly cautious design, resulting in not relevant (or extremely situational) options. A sniper has to effectively move/hide, which is not particularly combinable with the tripod.
aobst128 wrote:
The action cost of tripods is a higher cost than the stats I'd agree. But it's not just snipers that are making the choice. Arquebus is very good for vanguards since they can more easily than most get their strength to 18 to get a more sizable +2. That and their later level abilities specifically call for kickback guns or scatter guns. So it's good that we have 2 different options for snipers without strength and vanguards. I could still see some snipers perching 100+ feet away and using snipers aim when they don't have the actions to set up a tripod.

There's this clause in the description of the tripod:

Quote:
However, deploying or retrieving a tripod with an Interact action doesn't automatically make you observed, so long as you don't set up or remove the tripod when it's in a spot where creatures can see the tripod itself.
In this case, rules as intended seems to be that in an environment where you can afford to stay in one place, you Avoid Notice during exploration, move to a spot where you can see the enemies but they can't see you, set up the tripod, and then roll initiative. If this was intended to balance out the higher damage die, it would make sense. But jezails have the same damage die. I don't think the intent is for vanguards to be the only characters who want to use arquebuses, I think the intent is for snipers to use arquebuses in situations where they can afford to mount the weapon and otherwise stick to a pistol. This intent is ignored because jezails exist. Otherwise if you're playing as a sniper it is best for you to import guns from Vudra, which doesn't reflect the fiction where several career soldiers in Alkenstar are snipers.

I don't see how it's not working as intended. If you just want to shoot and stealth like a sniper is meant to, the strength requirement is a non problem for kickback, if you choose to specialize in int or charisma, you have 2 options, either use a jezail or a bipod. The jezail is probably optimal but bipods aren't absolutely worthless. Plus snipers aim exists.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
breithauptclan wrote:
CaffeinatedNinja wrote:

Jezail has one drawback that isn't immediately obvious, buried in the fatal aim trait. 2e does like hiding stuff in traits hah.

With a normal 2handed firearm, you can release, do something, then regrip as part of your reload, saving an action. Fatal aim is clear however that it needs an action to change grips on the gun, and it specifically says reload can't do it.

So if you plan on going back to a 2handed grip with a reload, Jezail is going to need an extra action there.

Hmm... That is a good catch. I'm reading that as a bimodal operation. So if you are already using a Jezail two-handed, then you can still change grip and re-grip two-handed for free as part of doing a reload. But if you are using it one-handed, it will still be held one-handed after doing a reload - you don't get to switch to two-handed for free as part of the reload.

I disagree. I think the fatal aim trait is pretty clear that it doesn't work with reload. I understand the argument "hold it in on hand but not wielding it in one hand so fatal aim doesn't apply" but I disagree with it. That right there is the drawback on the Jezail. If you don't want that, you can use an arquebus hah.


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CaffeinatedNinja wrote:
I disagree. I think the fatal aim trait is pretty clear that it doesn't work with reload.

Well, here is how I am parsing and interpreting the trait rule text.

Fatal Aim wrote:
Holding the weapon underarm stably enough to fire is significantly more complicated than just releasing one hand from the weapon, so to switch between the two grips, you must do so with an Interact action rather than Releasing or as part of reloading.

'Holding the weapon underarm stably enough to fire' is meaning the 1-hand grip.

'to switch between the two grips' = changing from 1-handed mode to 2-handed mode or back.

'you must do so with an Interact action rather that Releasing' Obvious enough. Requires an Interact action rather than just the free action Release that can be done with 2-hand melee weapons.

'or as part of reloading' This is still referencing how you switch between the two grip modes of the weapon. This doesn't override the Reload rule stating (effectively) that you can use your hands to reload even if they are both currently in use wielding the weapon. All it does is prevent using Reload as a free action way of changing grip on the weapon.

-------

So now I am curious how you are parsing and interpreting the trait to come to the conclusion that you are.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
breithauptclan wrote:
CaffeinatedNinja wrote:
I disagree. I think the fatal aim trait is pretty clear that it doesn't work with reload.

Well, here is how I am parsing and interpreting the trait rule text.

Fatal Aim wrote:
Holding the weapon underarm stably enough to fire is significantly more complicated than just releasing one hand from the weapon, so to switch between the two grips, you must do so with an Interact action rather than Releasing or as part of reloading.

'Holding the weapon underarm stably enough to fire' is meaning the 1-hand grip.

'to switch between the two grips' = changing from 1-handed mode to 2-handed mode or back.

'you must do so with an Interact action rather that Releasing' Obvious enough. Requires an Interact action rather than just the free action Release that can be done with 2-hand melee weapons.

'or as part of reloading' This is still referencing how you switch between the two grip modes of the weapon. This doesn't override the Reload rule stating (effectively) that you can use your hands to reload even if they are both currently in use wielding the weapon. All it does is prevent using Reload as a free action way of changing grip on the weapon.

-------

So now I am curious how you are parsing and interpreting the trait to come to the conclusion that you are.

Oh, I don’t disagree that you can hold it in two hands and reload it. Be kind of useless otherwise.

I just mean that you can’t say release one hand. Then battle medicine or something, then reload and regrip in both hands as part of the reload action, like you can with other weapons, since the Jezail requires an action to do that which can’t be part of the reload.


CaffeinatedNinja wrote:
Oh, I don’t disagree that you can hold it in two hands and reload it. Be kind of useless otherwise.

Oh... Well then...

CaffeinatedNinja wrote:
I just mean that you can’t say release one hand. Then battle medicine or something, then reload and regrip in both hands as part of the reload action, like you can with other weapons, since the Jezail requires an action to do that which can’t be part of the reload.

This still seems off since it is the 1-handed mode that is described as being the more difficult one to be in. If you are using it 2-handed and do use the Release action to change to a 1-handed grip, then it would be only a 1-hand hold, not a 1-hand wield. You would then need to spend an action on Change Grip to get back to a 2-hand wield - or an Interact action to change to a 1-hand wield.

But I think that ultimately I would agree with your assessment of action cost in the scenario of: Release, Battle Medicine, Reload. Because at the end of that you would still be in a 1-hand hold of the Jezail - not either of the wield modes. Because the Reload rule allowing the free action re-grip only applies if you also used it to switch to the free-hand grip to begin with as part of the reload. If you were already in a 1-hand carry of a 2-hand ranged weapon then the reload action wouldn't cause you to re-grip in a 2-hand wield.


Hmm, if you release a hand without spending the action to switch to one handed, wouldn't it work like a typical 2 handed gun? I don't see how it would work differently.


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aobst128 wrote:
Dragonchess Player wrote:

The mace multipistol is a bit disappointing for damage dice and range, but it can fire three shots without reloading.

A piercing wind might be a better choice than a gunsword for a combination weapon with the Finesse, Forceful, and Sweep melee properties.

The capacity trait only means that you don't need a free hand to reload it up to it's capacity.

"Reload" in the linguistic sense of replacing fired ammunition, not game mechanics of "Reload 0" between shots.


aobst128 wrote:
Hmm, if you release a hand without spending the action to switch to one handed, wouldn't it work like a typical 2 handed gun? I don't see how it would work differently.

I would think so. Isn't that what I said?

Or are people saying that you can be in 1-hand hold of a 2-handed ranged weapon, Reload, and then end up in 2-hand wield of the weapon?

That seems wrong to me because the Reload rule says

Reload wrote:
Switching your grip to free a hand and then to place your hands in the grip necessary to wield the weapon are both included in the actions you spend to reload a weapon.

And I'm pretty sure that this entire sentence was added so that it is possible to reload a 2-hand ranged weapon without it taking 3+ actions to do so - by allowing you to use one of the hands you use to wield the weapon.


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aobst128 wrote:
Hmm, if you release a hand without spending the action to switch to one handed, wouldn't it work like a typical 2 handed gun? I don't see how it would work differently.

The reload trait lets you adjust your grip as part of reloading. So if you're holding an arquebus in one hand, you can reload and be ready to shoot it in one action.

The fatal aim trait specifically disallows this.

If you don't need to reload, then yeah they basically work the same.


breithauptclan wrote:
aobst128 wrote:
Hmm, if you release a hand without spending the action to switch to one handed, wouldn't it work like a typical 2 handed gun? I don't see how it would work differently.

I would think so. Isn't that what I said?

Or are people saying that you can be in 1-hand hold of a 2-handed ranged weapon, Reload, and then end up in 2-hand wield of the weapon?

That seems wrong to me because the Reload rule says

Reload wrote:
Switching your grip to free a hand and then to place your hands in the grip necessary to wield the weapon are both included in the actions you spend to reload a weapon.
And I'm pretty sure that this entire sentence was added so that it is possible to reload a 2-hand ranged weapon without it taking 3+ actions to do so - by allowing you to use one of the hands you use to wield the weapon.

Ok. I think we're all on the same page. Just got lost along the way. If you never switch to one handed, you don't need to change your tactics. If you want to use both modes, you do need to spend an action switching modes regardless of the reload rules.


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Dubious Scholar wrote:

Combination weapons are thematically cool but I agree on them being too conservative.

Most of them have anemic damage dice on at least one mode. Most of them suffer from needing STR to hit in melee and DEX at range, which is costly.

In a pure stats situation, the explosive dogslicer is the best, but it doesn't have a lot of shooting range (but it's 1d6 in both modes and uses dex to hit either way at least).

Gun sword is 1d8 either mode and has a respectable 50ft range increment... except that hitting with it in melee requires STR, which is a limiting factor.

It's not the best way to handle it, but taking the Inventor Dedication (choose piercing wind as your weapon innovation) and then Basic Modification (for Dynamic Weighting*) can improve the piercing wind's melee damage to 1d6 S (Two-Hand), while also gaining versatile B. Plus both melee (Finesse) and ranged attacks use Dex.

*- since it is a 1-handed melee weapon without the Agile, Attached, or Free-hand traits

Tangent:
I spent a couple hours last month planning out an automaton (sharpshooter heritage) gunslinger (Way of the Sniper)/free archetype (Inventor Dedication only) with Munitions Crafter, Alchemical Shot/Brilliant Crafter, and Integrated Armament (piercing wind).


Dragonchess Player wrote:
Dubious Scholar wrote:

Combination weapons are thematically cool but I agree on them being too conservative.

Most of them have anemic damage dice on at least one mode. Most of them suffer from needing STR to hit in melee and DEX at range, which is costly.

In a pure stats situation, the explosive dogslicer is the best, but it doesn't have a lot of shooting range (but it's 1d6 in both modes and uses dex to hit either way at least).

Gun sword is 1d8 either mode and has a respectable 50ft range increment... except that hitting with it in melee requires STR, which is a limiting factor.

It's not the best way to handle it, but taking the Inventor Dedication (choose piercing wind as your weapon innovation) and then Basic Modification (for Dynamic Weighting*) can improve the piercing wind's melee damage to 1d6 S (Two-Hand), while also gaining versatile B. Plus both melee (Finesse) and ranged attacks use Dex.

*- since it is a 1-handed melee weapon without the Agile, Attached, or Free-hand traits

This is true. I do wonder how some of the innovations work with combination weapons though. Like if you increase the die size at 15th level, would it increase the damage of one or both modes?


Another weird thing is whether or not you can reload a combination weapon while it's in melee mode.


I think I've come around on the idea of drifters with combination weapons. By 8th level, you can skirmish pretty well with stab and blast if you're wielding 2 combo weapons. Even though you're limited to basically simple attacks, the fact that the 2 modes share runes means that your 2 weapons are a lot more affordable to stab and blast with. With blazons of shared power, you quadruple your fundamental runes with 2 combination weapons.

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