As I understand it, a halfling can use a small longspear to attack things 10 feet away, because small creatures have the same reach (5 ft) as medium creatures.
Also (from the SRD):
Inappropriately Sized Weapons: A creature can't make optimum use of a weapon that isn't properly sized for it. A cumulative –2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder. If the creature isn't proficient with the weapon, a –4 nonproficiency penalty also applies.The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder's size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. For example, a Small creature would wield a Medium one-handed weapon as a two-handed weapon. If a weapon's designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can't wield the weapon at all.
So what happens when a human picks up the halfling's small longspear? It seems to me that the human takes the -2 penalty from the first paragraph, and can wield the spear as a one-handed weapon because of the second paragraph. However, it's still a reach weapon.
I can't think of anything broken to do with it yet, but does this work?
It does appear that would be the case. Neither the reach weapon rules nor the rules for inappropriately sized weapons mention a reach weapon of the wrong size.
However, I think that any reasonable GM would house-rule that it grants reach as appropriate for a wielder of the correct size. (I'd say that it loose the reach property for a larger wielder, but that means a human with a Small longspear has less reach than a halfing with the same longspear.)
If the reasoning for that isn't obvious, consider an Orge (size Large) with a Small longspear. He is wielding a weapon the size of a short sword, but somehow is able to attack 20 feet away.
Going by the rules, I don't see anything horribly broken about it. You could dual wield two longspears and still have reach, but you would be at -6 on all of your attacks. (-2 for the wrong size weapon, -4 for dual wielding one-handed weapons.) You could reduce that to -4/-2 if you used a Small longspear and a Medium short sword, but then you would have to take a five foot step in the middle of your attacks or divide them between different targets.
You could also fight with a Medium long sword in your primary hand, a Small longspear in your off hand and a Medium buckler on your off arm. You would then have reach (for AoO) and the ability to attack neighboring foes. If you didn't use two weapon fighting, you wouldn't take any penalties with your primary had and only -3 with the off hand (-2 for weapon size, -1 for wearing a buckler). If you don't attack with the longspear, this only loses 1 AC compared to longsword and heavy shield. Eventually, this will get expensive as you would have two weapons and a buckler that need enchanting and you are getting less use out of the weapons that a standard two weapon fighter would.
Does this mean that an ogre's longsword is technically a reach weapon? Since it's sized for a large creature?
|
So what happens when a human picks up the halfling's small longspear? It seems to me that the human takes the -2 penalty from the first paragraph, and can wield the spear as a one-handed weapon because of the second paragraph. However, it's still a reach weapon.
The final D&D 3.5 FAQ uses the idea that reach weapons have to be of appropriate size to gain the benefit reach. If the weapon is either too big or too small, it doesn't gain the benefit of reach. This is based on the same text (to the best of my knowledge, I haven't nailed it down exactly) as PF uses. This will not be an answer that all readers find useful. This is an extension of the rules, not a clarification of text. Either due to that or due to where a reader places themselves on the continuum of whether PF is a new game or an extension of an existing game, it may or may not carry weight.
(thread necromancy is alive and well...links do that. :) )
Howie23 my problem with that is that the small reach weapon reaches exactly like a medium reach weapon.
So if it's long enough for the small creature why isn't it long enough for the medium creature that should have a larger natural reach in the first place?
|
|
Howie23 my problem with that is that the small reach weapon reaches exactly like a medium reach weapon.
So if it's long enough for the small creature why isn't it long enough for the medium creature that should have a larger natural reach in the first place?
I agree it's a bit off in that regard, Abraham. The main reason I would see for applying it is for consistency for those who care about such things. I could see reasonable rulings that it small reach used by Medium creature giving reach. I could also see it working when used with two hands only. These seem to be reasonable ways to approach it if not concerned with balance associated with TWF, shield use, etc.
Howie23 my problem with that is that the small reach weapon reaches exactly like a medium reach weapon.
So if it's long enough for the small creature why isn't it long enough for the medium creature that should have a larger natural reach in the first place?
I was having this discussion recently with a good friend. I tend to take the position that the Reach quality stays active even with the size change as there doesn't appear to be anything in the text to prevent it from being the case. It makes certain Fighter options really interesting.
I agree it's a bit off in that regard, Abraham. The main reason I would see for applying it is for consistency for those who care about such things. I could see reasonable rulings that it small reach used by Medium creature giving reach. I could also see it working when used with two hands only. These seem to be reasonable ways to approach it if not concerned with balance associated with TWF, shield use, etc.Howie23 my problem with that is that the small reach weapon reaches exactly like a medium reach weapon.
So if it's long enough for the small creature why isn't it long enough for the medium creature that should have a larger natural reach in the first place?
Yeah -- my current magus uses a small sized bardiche to have a one handed reach weapon -- but I spent an exotic weapon proficiency feat to get rid of the size penalty to using it. As the GM and I figure it if exotic weapon proficiency is enough to get rid of a -4 non-proficiency penalty then it's good enough to get rid of a -2 wrong size penalty.
|
|
Yeah -- my current magus uses a small sized bardiche to have a one handed reach weapon -- but I spent an exotic weapon proficiency feat to get rid of the size penalty to using it. As the GM and I figure it if exotic weapon proficiency is enough to get rid of a -4 non-proficiency penalty then it's good enough to get rid of a -2 wrong size penalty.
I think the EWP is an excellent solution to get there, and agree with Serisan above about how some weapon use concepts come into play. When 300 was out, shield and spear concepts were all the rage, yet the game rules don't support them that well.
Yeah -- my current magus uses a small sized bardiche to have a one handed reach weapon -- but I spent an exotic weapon proficiency feat to get rid of the size penalty to using it. As the GM and I figure it if exotic weapon proficiency is enough to get rid of a -4 non-proficiency penalty then it's good enough to get rid of a -2 wrong size penalty.I think the EWP is an excellent solution to get there, and agree with Serisan above about how some weapon use concepts come into play. When 300 was out, shield and spear concepts were all the rage, yet the game rules don't support them that well.
Yeah I was ecstatic to see the phalanx fighter Archetype. I'm not 100% about it but a full 90% and love using it for a dip before going into cavalier.
This sounds like something that could be placed in maybe Ultimate Combat as a feat. Maybe there could be a feat that allows a character to use a specific weapon within one size level of their current size with no penalties. The character would have to be proficient with the weapon and be able to physically wield it. There is already a bit of a precedent for this with Amiri, the iconic barbarian who wields a large bastard sword. In her character description it states that she is using the weapon with the penalty included.
|
|
Smaller doesn't necessarily mean shorter, it could simply have a smaller diameter as compared to a medium but with the same length. Think needle vs. toothpick, more or less the same length but the toothpick will do more damage.
Ultimately, the entire issue is based on the fact that Small and Medium uniquely have the same reach. In itself, it's an accommodation within the rules related to the PC races. It exists just to make it so that gnomes and halflings weren't impossible to play. Both taking advantage of it (what the FAQ attempts to avoid) and explain it (like the needle-toothpick bit) don't take this into account. Since the purpose is pure rules-balance, leaving the solution in pure rules-land doesn't introduce extraneous justification and corner cases. YMMV.