Why are Urdefhan healed by negative energy?


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion

Dark Archive

So don't get me wrong, makes perfect sense for me that Urdefhan as omnicidal living beings are actually only example of negative energy based mortal life, but I don't think I've ever heard lore like that so I'm curious about this if I've just missed this :D I know from checking up that one of Urdefhan in previous edition had negative energy affinity, but all 2e Urdefhan seem to share negative healing and positive weakness so I'm curious of this


Presumably it was to make them more destructive. Urdefhans were created by daemons, and are often referred to as vampires, so they could have been animated with negative energy as a daemonic middle finger to the rest of the multiverse.
It also means that the explosions of negative energy their clerics would wield would heal their followers while killing everyone else.

Liberty's Edge

2 people marked this as a favorite.

According to Pathfinderwiki, James Jacobs gave the following explanation :

"These creatures possess "un-souls" made of negative energy that constantly drive them toward death. While an urdefhan's "un-soul" allows it to be healed by negative energy in a similar fashion to how mortal creatures are healed by positive energy, it also allows the urdefhan to effectively detonate its volatile soul, killing it and releasing its energy in a wide-ranging, destructive burst."

So Perpdepog was exactly right.

Dark Archive

Which means Daemons screwed over by Scaedunars by somehow creating negative energy soul :D


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Actually, it was reading about urdefhan and their negative 'un-soul' which inspired the (admittedly somewhat rambling) observations made in this thread I started several months ago. I don't really have any new insights to add, yet, but I thought perhaps it might interest you to browse as it is mostly about the interaction between souls and creatures powered by negative energy (esp. living negative creatures, such as dhampirs, mortics, and urdefhan)

https://paizo.com/threads/rzs43g6t?Souls-Negative-Energy


The Raven Black wrote:

According to Pathfinderwiki, James Jacobs gave the following explanation :

"These creatures possess "un-souls" made of negative energy that constantly drive them toward death. While an urdefhan's "un-soul" allows it to be healed by negative energy in a similar fashion to how mortal creatures are healed by positive energy, it also allows the urdefhan to effectively detonate its volatile soul, killing it and releasing its energy in a wide-ranging, destructive burst."

So Perpdepog was exactly right.

Them being able to detonate their souls also fits with the daemonic belief that all of existence is a zero sum game, and the only way to win is to be the last thing standing to appreciate everyone else being dead before also disappearing. No souls means nobody goes to the Boneyard to be judged, or eventually becomes quintessence to help perpetuate the outer planes.


Perpdepog wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:

According to Pathfinderwiki, James Jacobs gave the following explanation :

"These creatures possess "un-souls" made of negative energy that constantly drive them toward death. While an urdefhan's "un-soul" allows it to be healed by negative energy in a similar fashion to how mortal creatures are healed by positive energy, it also allows the urdefhan to effectively detonate its volatile soul, killing it and releasing its energy in a wide-ranging, destructive burst."

So Perpdepog was exactly right.

Them being able to detonate their souls also fits with the daemonic belief that all of existence is a zero sum game, and the only way to win is to be the last thing standing to appreciate everyone else being dead before also disappearing. No souls means nobody goes to the Boneyard to be judged, or eventually becomes quintessence to help perpetuate the outer planes.

It is true that eventually the current multiverse with Pharasma as it's inceptor and perpetuator will end (she knows her creation is flawed, she was from a previous iteration of multiverse) but she also has a successor appointed and another iteration will take place. So the demon isn't exactly wrong, existence is more of less meaningless but also not quite right because while this existence will cease, there will be another.

Liberty's Edge

I do not know that the successor can really be chosen.

Also, with prophecy broken, no one really knows if things will be the same as they were supposed to be.

Maybe this existence will not cease.


The Raven Black wrote:

I do not know that the successor can really be chosen.

Also, with prophecy broken, no one really knows if things will be the same as they were supposed to be.

Maybe this existence will not cease.

Pharasma has a designated psychopomp she considers her daughter (Atropos) who is supposed to create the next multiverse. It's fair to question if something will happen to interrupt that, but Pharasma has definitely already decided and been training her.

Liberty's Edge

I see. But no one knows if Pharasma herself was chosen or just a random nobody who happened to become the Survivor.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
The Raven Black wrote:
I see. But no one knows if Pharasma herself was chosen or just a random nobody who happened to become the Survivor.

It's unclear if Pharasma knows. I'm not sure if she's told anyone else. It's been a while since I read the description from the book (I can't even remember which one) but I believe it was implied Pharasma simply remembered existing outside of nothing, and then knew to create the multiverse.

Edit: I found this, which I believe is what I remembered.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Claxon wrote:
Perpdepog wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:

According to Pathfinderwiki, James Jacobs gave the following explanation :

"These creatures possess "un-souls" made of negative energy that constantly drive them toward death. While an urdefhan's "un-soul" allows it to be healed by negative energy in a similar fashion to how mortal creatures are healed by positive energy, it also allows the urdefhan to effectively detonate its volatile soul, killing it and releasing its energy in a wide-ranging, destructive burst."

So Perpdepog was exactly right.

Them being able to detonate their souls also fits with the daemonic belief that all of existence is a zero sum game, and the only way to win is to be the last thing standing to appreciate everyone else being dead before also disappearing. No souls means nobody goes to the Boneyard to be judged, or eventually becomes quintessence to help perpetuate the outer planes.
It is true that eventually the current multiverse with Pharasma as it's inceptor and perpetuator will end (she knows her creation is flawed, she was from a previous iteration of multiverse) but she also has a successor appointed and another iteration will take place. So the demon isn't exactly wrong, existence is more of less meaningless but also not quite right because while this existence will cease, there will be another.

True, though I don't think that will stop them from trying to end everything anyway, and they likely wouldn't listen if someone tried to explain things to them. It's the daemonic raison d'etre, after all.

Though it would be neat to write a daemon who realizes the fact that existence will keep on existing, and discovers the futility of futility to begin redeeming themself. I don't think we've ever had a redeemed daemon.


A think the daemon would rather attempt to kill Pharasma and Atropos and prevent the next multiverse than redeem themselves, but still not impossible either.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Perpdepog wrote:
Claxon wrote:
Perpdepog wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:

According to Pathfinderwiki, James Jacobs gave the following explanation :

"These creatures possess "un-souls" made of negative energy that constantly drive them toward death. While an urdefhan's "un-soul" allows it to be healed by negative energy in a similar fashion to how mortal creatures are healed by positive energy, it also allows the urdefhan to effectively detonate its volatile soul, killing it and releasing its energy in a wide-ranging, destructive burst."

So Perpdepog was exactly right.

Them being able to detonate their souls also fits with the daemonic belief that all of existence is a zero sum game, and the only way to win is to be the last thing standing to appreciate everyone else being dead before also disappearing. No souls means nobody goes to the Boneyard to be judged, or eventually becomes quintessence to help perpetuate the outer planes.
It is true that eventually the current multiverse with Pharasma as it's inceptor and perpetuator will end (she knows her creation is flawed, she was from a previous iteration of multiverse) but she also has a successor appointed and another iteration will take place. So the demon isn't exactly wrong, existence is more of less meaningless but also not quite right because while this existence will cease, there will be another.

True, though I don't think that will stop them from trying to end everything anyway, and they likely wouldn't listen if someone tried to explain things to them. It's the daemonic raison d'etre, after all.

Though it would be neat to write a daemon who realizes the fact that existence will keep on existing, and discovers the futility of futility to begin redeeming themself. I don't think we've ever had a redeemed daemon.

There is! The Pale Horse is a Psychopomp Usher who used to be a daemon.


Oh that's very cool! Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Lost Omens Campaign Setting / General Discussion / Why are Urdefhan healed by negative energy? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.