Is the mirror of mental prowess portal tied to the user or to use?


Rules Questions

Scarab Sages

I recently was looking for crystal balls or their variants and found the mirror of mental prowess which is an interesting item. However one thing that stood out was the third power it has . . .

Use it as a portal to visit other places. The controller first views the place with the clairvoyance function, then steps through the mirror to the place pictured. Others can follow her through the mirror if they like. An invisible portal remains on the other side where she arrives, and she can return through that portal. Once she returns, the portal closes. The portal closes on its own after 24 hours (trapping the user if she’s still in the other place), and the user can also close it with a command word. Creatures with Intelligence scores of 12 or higher might notice the portal just as they might notice a magical sensor from a scrying spell. Any creature who steps through the portal appears in front of the mirror.

The fact that it specifies other creatures can notice, and use the portal if you don't close it left me wondering is the portal tied to the original USER or merely to USE.

That is you view a city (lets say new york) and find a nice quiet alley to open a portal in then you step through the mirror (probably crouching as I believe they're 5 by 2 feet in size so a bit smaller than comfortable) and leave the portal open either because your just buying a sandwich or you didn't memorize teleport/planeshift this morning. While your away some one comes along and either notices the portal or has the bad luck to stumble through it appearing in front of the mirror in your house.

Now here's where I'd appreciate some help on the rooms is the portal still open because the person who made it (you) haven't gone back through it allowing the other person to come and go freely or has the portal closed as its been used for a return trip? Meaning the person who went through is now stuck in your house (barring a use magic device check on the mirror) and your stuck in new york.

Liberty's Edge

The porta is tied to the person that activated the mirror.

"The controller first views the place with the clairvoyance function
...
and she can return through that portal. Once she returns, the portal closes."

Scarab Sages

Diego Rossi wrote:

The porta is tied to the person that activated the mirror.

"The controller first views the place with the clairvoyance function
...
and she can return through that portal. Once she returns, the portal closes."

True but the last two sentences talk about other creatures seeing the portal and using it. So its something I'd rather like to know if there's any kind of rule applied to it. As it makes a big difference . . .

Scenario 1
You go to do something and someone loots your stronghold by going in and out of the portal and helping themselves to things. However you can open a portal to someone and allow groups to evacuate into your stronghold with minimal spell casting.

Scenario 2
Anyone going through gets trapped in your stronghold (if on another plane) till you deal with them. However you can get stuck somewhere if someone else goes through and closes the portal.

Basically trying to figure out if the emphasis is meant to be Once she returns the portal closes or once she returns the portal closes. Is it specific to who returns or to anyone returning.

Logically I'd agree with you that it makes more sense for it to be clause a and clause b seperate and distinct but that leaves open the possibility of things like making two mirrors, sending one to say the city of brass then opening portals each day and allowing people to just travel through them all day long commuting between Absalon and the City of Brass because by the logical reading the portal wont close until (1) the person who opened it goes back through, (2) 24 hours pass or (3) the person who opened it say's the command word to shut it.

Given even gate only lasts up to 1 round a level and the mirror can view/open portals to other planes that is a really powerful reading of its ability which is why i'm inclined to think its meant to be two one way trips . . .

clairvoyance - mirror - portal - return - portal closes.

Even with that I'd be putting a limit of if the mirrors used to open a portal somewhere else it closes an existing one but raw I don't see anything like that, hence my asking about the rules in case there's something I've missed.

Liberty's Edge

If as soon as someone return the portal close, every time more than a person has moved away through it there is someone that is left stranded.

Let's make an example:
Jack is the person that use the mirror, speaking its command word. Bob, Sheila and Jack go to New York to do some shopping. When they return Bob is the first to pass through the mirror. The mirror close. Bob speak the command word and open the mirror into the same New York alley and pass through it. Sheila and Jack pass through the mirror, as they aren't returning, Bob then return through the mirror closing it.
It seems a logical procedure to you? To me, it doesn't.

The subject of the rule text is always "the controller", it seem counterintuitive to say that who is the controller changes simply because someone pass through the mirror.

BTW, to open a new portal you need to speak the command word, and that close the existing portal.

"Powerful": the price tag is 175,000 gp. Yes, it is powerful and it meant to be.


The answer you are looking for is in the first section of the description.
This mirror resembles an ordinary looking glass 5 feet tall by 2 feet wide. A creature who knows the proper commands can cause it to perform as follows.

It specifies that you need to use a command word to use it. Latter in the description it gives an exception that any creature can step through an open portal. That is all a creature that does not know the command word can do. They cannot close the portal nor do anything else.

Use it as a portal to visit other places. The controller first views the place with the clairvoyance function, then steps through the mirror to the place pictured. Others can follow her through the mirror if they like. An invisible portal remains on the other side where she arrives, and she can return through that portal. Once she returns, the portal closes. The portal closes on its own after 24 hours (trapping the user if she’s still in the other place), and the user can also close it with a command word. Creatures with Intelligence scores of 12 or higher might notice the portal just as they might notice a magical sensor from a scrying spell. Any creature who steps through the portal appears in front of the mirror.

The section on the using it as a portal also specifies that other others can follow through the mirror. The way I interpret that is that it opens up a one way portal to the destination. Once the last creature goes through the portal it becomes a return portal that takes anyone stepping through it to the space in front of the mirror. The user can closed down the return portal in one of two ways. The first is if he uses it to return it is automatically closed. The second way is to use the command word to close the portal.

Scarab Sages

Fair enough.


It can be used back and forth by any number of creatures (other than you, the controller) to come and go for 24 hours at least.

-----------------------------------------

'Senko' wrote:
True but the last two sentences talk about other creatures seeing the portal and using it.

Yes, so while in vernacular they might be said to be 'users of the portal' they are not the user described in the power itself. The user is always described as the one who created/stepped into the portal, thus opening it. Just like you might be the creator, controller, or user of an item that creates wind, some other creature might be flying on that wind or using it to do something, thus by wording they might be 'users of the wind' they aren't the 'user' of the item, its power, or the wind in most instance of an item describing its 'user'. (And if they were, the wording would make that clear).

Once the controller, uses the power of clairvoyance and then steps through the mirror, it creates a portal to that location. [as per wording]

The portal is open at the mirror's location and anyone else can step into the mirror and go to the viewed location.

Quote:
Others can follow her through the mirror if they like.

There is nothing that says it closes from this use. So any number of other creatures passing through (to the shown location) does not change anything about the portal.

The portal (on both ends) remains open for 24 hours, until the controller (the one who used the mirror to create the portal) uses a command word to close it prematurely, or the controller passes back through it (to the mirror location). [as per the wording]

No amount of any other creatures passing through from either side, willingly or unwillingly will close the portal at either end. Only the controller (the one who created the portal) can close it (or 24 hours pass).


Use it as a portal to visit other places. The controller first views the place with the clairvoyance function, then steps through the mirror to the place pictured. Others can follow her through the mirror if they like. An invisible portal remains on the other side where she arrives, and she can return through that portal. Once she returns, the portal closes. The portal closes on its own after 24 hours (trapping the user if she’s still in the other place), and the user can also close it with a command word. Creatures with Intelligence scores of 12 or higher might notice the portal just as they might notice a magical sensor from a scrying spell. Any creature who steps through the portal appears in front of the mirror.

The first bolded section specifies the portal only remains open on the side where the user traveled to. The second bolded section clearly states that any creature who steps through the portal appears in front of the mirror. That makes it pretty clear that the mirror is not creating a two way portal.

In order for use the mirror to travel you have to be using the clairvoyance function. Nothing in the description of that function indicates it continues to function when the controller is no longer there. That would indicate that when the controller leaves the mirror goes back to acting like a normal mirror and shows what is reflected in the mirror.

Scarab Sages

Mysterious Stranger wrote:

Use it as a portal to visit other places. The controller first views the place with the clairvoyance function, then steps through the mirror to the place pictured. Others can follow her through the mirror if they like. An invisible portal remains on the other side where she arrives, and she can return through that portal. Once she returns, the portal closes. The portal closes on its own after 24 hours (trapping the user if she’s still in the other place), and the user can also close it with a command word. Creatures with Intelligence scores of 12 or higher might notice the portal just as they might notice a magical sensor from a scrying spell. Any creature who steps through the portal appears in front of the mirror.

The first bolded section specifies the portal only remains open on the side where the user traveled to. The second bolded section clearly states that any creature who steps through the portal appears in front of the mirror. That makes it pretty clear that the mirror is not creating a two way portal.

In order for use the mirror to travel you have to be using the clairvoyance function. Nothing in the description of that function indicates it continues to function when the controller is no longer there. That would indicate that when the controller leaves the mirror goes back to acting like a normal mirror and shows what is reflected in the mirror.

Oh I never meant to imply it was a two way portal I suggested using two mirrors to create a two way system. That is. . .

Mirror 1 - Clairvoyance - Portal to City of Brass, portal can be used by anyone other than the one who opened it in city of brass to appear in front of mirror 1 without closing the portal.

Mirror 2 - Clairvoyance - Portal to Absalom, portal can be used bny anyone other than the one who opened it in city of absalom to appear in front of mirror 2 without closing the portal.

Therefore you go through the return portal for mirror 2 to travel to the city of brass then the return portal for mirror 1 to come back. At the end of the day's commuting the person who opened each portal goes back through them closing the return portal.

If you see what I mean?


My second post was I response to Pizza Lord’s post. He is the one that said it created a two way portal that lasts for 24 hours.

If you had two mirrors I see no reason you could not setup a round trip return portal. Considering the cost of the mirror’s it would be pretty expensive. A cheaper way would be to create two permanent teleportation circles.

Scarab Sages

Mysterious Stranger wrote:

My second post was I response to Pizza Lord’s post. He is the one that said it created a two way portal that lasts for 24 hours.

If you had two mirrors I see no reason you could not setup a round trip return portal. Considering the cost of the mirror’s it would be pretty expensive. A cheaper way would be to create two permanent teleportation circles.

Ah and true though I've never been able to visualize those myself. Still I can see this as a government investment one in the capital one in remote cities where a teleportation circle's being built but not yet active.

Liberty's Edge

It is a two-way portal.
Others can follow her through the mirror if they like.
There is no time limit for following her. So, if we use your interpretation, how many people can follow the person opening the portal? How long does it stay open?

You are creating limitations that aren't in the item description.

An invisible portal remains on the other side where she arrives
All that piece says is that there is a portal on the other terminus of the gate, too, not that the other terminus is closed.


Mirror of Mental Prowess wrote:
... Others can follow her through the mirror if they like. ...

That seems pretty definitive that the not only can others follow, meaning the portal must still be open and they don't bounce off the mirror...

... and that it's on the mirror side.

Anyone entering the mirror will go through it. Once the portal is made (until 24 hours pass or the user closes it sooner or returns through it), someone could move the mirror to a new location and anyone passing through at the other end will appear in front of it.

They could put in a jail cell, or arrange it next to a pit so when the user (or anyone else coming through) returns they fall in, they could lay it face up at the bottom of a pit and anyone falling down the pit and landing on the mirror will pop out at the viewed location...

Scarab Sages

Diego Rossi wrote:

It is a two-way portal.

Others can follow her through the mirror if they like.
There is no time limit for following her. So, if we use your interpretation, how many people can follow the person opening the portal? How long does it stay open?

You are creating limitations that aren't in the item description.

An invisible portal remains on the other side where she arrives
All that piece says is that there is a portal on the other terminus of the gate, too, not that the other terminus is closed.

I missed that entirely on multiple readings, interesting.


They can follow her through the mirror. If I walk through a door and you walk behind me you have followed me through the door. If I walk through a door and an hour latter you happen to walk through the door you have not followed me through the door, you have gone through the door yourself.

An invisible portal remains on the other side where she arrives. The description is clear that the portal remains on the other side. The fact that they specified it remains on the other side means it is not at the departure point. The last line also clearly states “Any creature who steps through the portal appears in front of the mirror.”. So even if the portal is open on the departure point stepping through it would cause you to appear in front of the mirror.

Liberty's Edge

You can follow someone's tracks even after a week. You are overthinking it.


Following someone’s tracks is completely different than following the person.

The whole argument about following is really not important. The description clearly states that a portal remains for 24 hour. It also states what happens when someone steps through the portal.

An invisible portal remains on the other side where she arrives, and she can return through that portal. Once she returns, the portal closes. The portal closes on its own after 24 hours (trapping the user if she’s still in the other place), and the user can also close it with a command word. Creatures with Intelligence scores of 12 or higher might notice the portal just as they might notice a magical sensor from a scrying spell. Any creature who steps through the portal appears in front of the mirror.

Even if the portal is open on both sides a creature stepping through the portal at the location of the mirror would be end up in front of the mirror. Since the mirror does not exist at the place you traveled to that would mean they end up right where they started from.

Liberty's Edge

I can only repeat the previous comment:
"You are overthinking it."

1) The people entering from the mirror side enter the mirror side, the description says "An invisible portal remains on the other side", so if we follow your line of thinking we have an entry that is the mirror and an entry that is the portal sans mirror.

2) "Creatures with Intelligence scores of 12 or higher might notice the portal just as they might notice a magical sensor from a scrying spell. Any creature who steps through the portal appears in front of the mirror."
You are aware that the porta that needs to be noticed is the one at the destination point? The portal on the mirror side is evident.
"Mirror of Mental Prowess
Description
This mirror resembles an ordinary looking glass 5 feet tall by 2 feet wide.
...
The controller first views the place with the clairvoyance function, then steps through the mirror to the place pictured."
An ordinary mirror that doesn't reflect the one looking at it but instead shows a different location. Hard to miss that.


Nothing in the description of the clairvoyance function indicates it continues to display the location when the user is not there. That would indicate the once the use is no longer using it, it goes back to being a normal mirror. Since the mirror is no longer displaying the location, no one else can go through it.

The description also specifies that a portal remains on the other side for 24 hours. That means the portal only remains on one side. If the portal remained open on both sides why are they specifying it is on the other side?

You are also ignoring the fact last line that clearly states that ”Anyone stepping through the portal appears in front of the mirror”. This is a clear indication that once the initial travel is done the portal changes to a one way trip back to the mirror.


Mysterious Stranger wrote:

The description also specifies that a portal remains on the other side for 24 hours. That means the portal only remains on one side. If the portal remained open on both sides why are they specifying it is on the other side?

Because the mirror is what's stepped through on the mirror side (obviously). Since that never stops existing, they don't have to specify it. The mirror is always where the mirror is by the very nature of being the mirror. Only the invisible portal that appears at the viewed destination has a limited duration. Once that closes, you can't step through the mirror to that location unless its opened again, but that doesn't mean the mirror ceases to exist.

Once the portal opens at the viewed location, you or anyone else can move the mirror around to anywhere and step into it and you will come out at the destination portal. Anyone at the portal stepping into it will appear in front of the mirror, wherever that is and whether that's the original location the mirror was in when the portal was opened.

Mysterious Stranger wrote:
They can follow her through the mirror. If I walk through a door and you walk behind me you have followed me through the door. If I walk through a door and an hour latter you happen to walk through the door you have not followed me through the door, you have gone through the door yourself.

What are you talking about? You can follow someone whether you are immediately walking behind them or you follow them 10 seconds behind or 1 hour behind or 1 month behind them. That has no bearing on anything.

You can walk through a door and I can wait 10 second and then follow you through it. I can even close the door open it, close it again, reopen it, and then follow you through it.

In the case of the mirror's power specifically, the only thing that would change would be the person reopening the portal to the same viewed location to follow you would be the new creator of the destination portal and the original 'user' would then be able to step back in and pass through the portal to appear in front of the mirror and it wouldn't close the portal, since it's now keyed to the new user... who could follow them back through... either immediately or up to 24 hours later.

Scarab Sages

I have to say I'm on the side of the mirror showing the view from the portal. It just holds together more for me.

Stronghold, look at mirror see view as if from portal, step through have invisble portal back but the mirrors still showing that view as the portals still there.

Makes more sense to me than.

Stronghold, look at mirror see yourself reflected, step into your reflection have invisble portal back.

If anything the former gives warning to anyone looking at the mirror it's in use and some idea of where it's set too ,(forest, city, etc)

Then again personally I'm not happy with the portal and would prefer fully invisible/unnoticeable or fully visible "Hey that wall has a hole in it." And admitedly this does leave it open for the clairvoyance function to be till switched off rather than concentration.

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