For those interested in rule changes from the tabletop game to Wrath of the Righteous video game...


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


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As most of you likely know, Owlcat games has released Wrath of the Righteous as a PC game, which is coming to consoles this March.

I have a blog page where I post various things. I bought the PC game not long after it came out, and there was a definite learning curve in the differences in many of the rules in the game. Skills have changed, some of the races have changed, several archetypes of classes have changed along with new ones being introduced, etc.

I haven't been able to find a site that summarizes all of the changes, so I decided to write a summary of them myself. There are absolutely no plot spoilers of any kind. I'm not good at HTML code for this place, but here is the site of my first post.

In this first post I give a general overview and summarize the significant differences in the skills, as well as an indication of what I'll be covering next. Please feel free to give any feedback as to whether it's clear and understandable, and if there is anything else folks would like included!

J

Scarab Sages

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One thing that probably is worth mentioning (I assume this is purely mechanical and not touching on the many plot differences) is that the enemies are able to have up to 30 ac and 20 levels more than their canon counterparts and its not a universal change e.g. "Generic Enemy A" is as the pen and paper stats while "Generic Enemy A - variant" has more levels/skill ranks/other so you can't assume this cambion is the same as that cambion and bosses are worse most of them have increased values.

Its well organized but the skills have a number of things that aren't right. Just a quick look over lunch, I can post more after work when I can sit down and go through it...

Knowledge (Arcane) is scribing arcane scrolls.
Knowledge (world) is brewing potions.
Knowledge (religion) is scribing divine spells.
Knowledge (Nature) apparently delays fatigue when camping.
Knowledge (Planes) I think got rolled into Knowledge (religion) not knowledge (arcane).

Scarab Sages

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Another one I noticed taking a closer look the pen and paper communual spells that are 10 min/level divided up amongst the party have become just 10 minutes flat duration.

Liberty's Edge

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And several effects that normally wuldn't stack instead stack, at least for the opponents. Plus most opponents start the combat already buffed.

Scarab Sages

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Diego Rossi wrote:
And several effects that normally wuldn't stack instead stack, at least for the opponents. Plus most opponents start the combat already buffed.

True I forgot that, I've been deliberately using fire body not fire + ice body because while in the game you can have both in pen and paper they both stipulate the negation of other polymorphing effects so you can't have both active at the same time.

Buffing I could live with what bugs me is the auto-cast spells. Had one just recently actually where it went like this . . .
Party member sneaks up.
Party member sneak attacks.
Party gets hit with AOE spell.
Party member's sneak attack hits.
Roll initiative.

The spell was coded to happen first so it happened before the sneak attakc that started combat and before the party member who won initiative come to think of it went spell, sneak attack, party member, enemy.


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Bite and gore attacks stack in the CRPG.

One can get builds with about 13-14 attacks per turn using this.
Especially fun as Demon.


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Being that you can always save the game and try again, the video game basically has to be harder than the TTRPG version.


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Senko wrote:

One thing that probably is worth mentioning (I assume this is purely mechanical and not touching on the many plot differences) is that the enemies are able to have up to 30 ac and 20 levels more than their canon counterparts and its not a universal change e.g. "Generic Enemy A" is as the pen and paper stats while "Generic Enemy A - variant" has more levels/skill ranks/other so you can't assume this cambion is the same as that cambion and bosses are worse most of them have increased values.

Its well organized but the skills have a number of things that aren't right. Just a quick look over lunch, I can post more after work when I can sit down and go through it...

Knowledge (Arcane) is scribing arcane scrolls.
Knowledge (world) is brewing potions.
Knowledge (religion) is scribing divine spells.
Knowledge (Nature) apparently delays fatigue when camping.
Knowledge (Planes) I think got rolled into Knowledge (religion) not knowledge (arcane).

Thanks, you're right Planes got rolled into Lore Religion, I've corrected that. I already included most of the things from your list, though I'll add the bit about brewing potions. One thing I didn't do is summarize what the new skills do, so I'll add a brief section on that. I'm not sure that scribing divine spells uses a different skill, I haven't run into that.

J


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For those interested, I've posted all about races next!

I included all of the available races and subraces (now called Heritages) in the game, along with any abilities that have changed. Spoiler: other than Elves, Humans and Gemsoul Oreads every race has some changes, and a couple are straight upgrades. There are no alternate racial traits available, but there are also a couple of new subraces! Here is the link to my race page.

Again, feedback is welcome. I really did try to make describing the changes as brief as possible, but if it feels too lengthy I can snip some things.

J

Scarab Sages

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Not really used the scribing option myself but the skill description says religion is used to scribe divine scrolls.

The potion one felt worth mentioning because in table top you need brew potion as a feat/class ability in the game you need the skill and there's dcs for different potions and a feat to expand the level to 6th level spells if I remember right.

Melkiador wrote:
Being that you can always save the game and try again, the video game basically has to be harder than the TTRPG version.

That's a matter of opinion I feel the save/reload is offset by idiot party members running into traps they know are there, into melee rather than standing back and using their spells, not taking a 5 foot step away from the enemy running up to melee them, running back and forth blindly giving enemies multiple aoos because they can't path a way to where they want to go, forced reloads if the mc dies despite having a cleric with breath of life and raise dead standing next to them, etc. However this isn't the thread to debate this so I'll stop here.

The Exchange

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Senko wrote:

Buffing I could live with what bugs me is the auto-cast spells. Had one just recently actually where it went like this . . .

Party member sneaks up.
Party member sneak attacks.
Party gets hit with AOE spell.
Party member's sneak attack hits.
Roll initiative.

The spell was coded to happen first so it happened before the sneak attakc that started combat and before the party member who won initiative come to think of it went spell, sneak attack, party member, enemy.

Have not played the computer game, but that could happen in the TTRPG as well.

There isn't a really clear definition of what actions a contingency can interrupt, so it's up to the GM/author to decide. I played one PFS scenario where an enemy had a contingency to immediately teleport away if anyone attempted to attack him with a spell or weapon. Key word being "attempted." The author intended that as soon as Sneaky McRogue started stabbing the teleport would happen and he would be gone before he was aware of the rogue or the attack landed. Because magic.


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The other thing that makes CRPG much easier is that you fully control your characters, which is emphathetically not the case in a PnP.
Play turn based mode for hard fights.

On unfair, there are triple digit ACs, I do not recommend unfair as you essentially need to know which fights to avoid beforehand. The triple digit AC can be gottena around, jerks with a DC for unholy nimbus in the mid 40s are far more annoying. Especially if its not limited to 3 times per day.


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Oh, for anyone that is curious...

The hexes from the Witch class and the Shaman classes do NOT interact with each other. Chant (Shaman) will not extend hexes from the Witch list of hexes, nor will Cackle extend Shaman hexes. When they SHOULD. I play Camilla and Ember together for doubling up Protective Luck and found this out the hard way.

Scarab Sages

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Another one touched on earlier is that the mythic spells in the game are unique e.g. ward against weakness protecting against a range of effects not an upgrade of an existing spell like in table top.


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The strongest fairly unfair viable build I did so far is all the bite attacks + Demon (which at tier 7 treats secondary natural attacks as primary attacks) + Mythic mage armor abuse.
You do not care about enemy AC (you do your STR as damage on a miss, if enemy has DR apply party wide smite from Seelah), but whenever you actually hit something it dies.
Probably go Nocticula doormat for this one, the +6 +4 on you is probably worth more then handing out +2s to everyone (which you can do if you ursurp her, dont forget to profane gift yourself!), also, Nocticula on unfair is not a fun fight. Your best bet is that she dominates everyone at the same time, and the dominate will then run out at the same time, wasting her resources. However, many of you buffs will also run out.

--Encounters to avoid: Water elemental, monitor lizards in pre Kenabres, Market place revisit Nalfeshnee in Kenabres, do Shivial after you are mythic 2 not before it, mythic nimbus a+%#*!+# in the lab.
The final thanatotic fight is pretty involved, consider flooding the board with summons, and tactically teleporting your hitters into their DPS. I strongly recommend to take out the Succubus archers first.

Act 5 and 6 were, Korramzadeh nonwithstanding relatively easy. Enigma was a boring slog, but it always is.

The unfortunate thing is that you lose Arue on Demon path, who is probably the second strongest NPC for this build after Seelah (because whole party smite is just to good). Evilrue is sadly just a shadow of herself.


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At least one creature, (the mythic crystal creature in the warded circle), has two DRs listed and it stacks them (lists the creature as having 25DR and 10DR, damage for less then 36 did nothing). But that might be some mythic ability it has.

The save to avoid dying from a coup de grace isn't 10+ damage dealt from the attack. Not sure what it is exactly but I was coup de gracing a creature for well over 100 damage and it was making it's saves on a 35ish. Maybe it is doing 10+base damage for the attack and not including the autocrit damage.

Animal companion stats are either way off (as they were in Kingmaker) or I have been misinterpreting the druid animal companion table. The animal companion stats are much higher then they should be, including natural armor bonus, which makes them really great at avoiding taking hits and laughing off the damage when something does actually hit them.

All you need to do to flank an opponent is have at least one other person threatening them. Makes it absurdly easy to do precision damage.


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DeathlessOne wrote:

Oh, for anyone that is curious...

The hexes from the Witch class and the Shaman classes do NOT interact with each other. Chant (Shaman) will not extend hexes from the Witch list of hexes, nor will Cackle extend Shaman hexes. When they SHOULD. I play Camilla and Ember together for doubling up Protective Luck and found this out the hard way.

Thanks, I didn't know that. I'm not a huge fan of Camellia anyway.

I hope everyone is finding my first two posts helpful. I am currently working on a class/archetype/PRC set of posts that I hope will be helpful as well. It may also help guide me for my second playthrough.

J


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FYI, here is my latest post, describing the differences between the classes and archetypes.

This is just the A's, but there are three new archetypes in the video game.

J

Liberty's Edge

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I haven't played for some time, but I think that the Knowledge World skill is what you use to cook your meals when resting. The effect of food is very important. Giving all your party fast healing 1 helps.


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Oh, spells that increase your size (enlarge person, etc) increase the damage of ranged weapon attacks (bows, throwing axes, etc not rays).


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You are correct Diego, it does.

I've added my second post on the classes and archetype differences. This one got a little long so I left off Bloodragers for now. Bards have been altered the most of any class so far, and there are three new archetypes listed. Here is the link to my newest post.

J


Whew, I've completed the classes starting with B's and have begun C's. Click here for my new post. Bloodragers have a new bloodline and two new archetypes, each of which has changed except for the Primalist archetype.

Cavaliers now have 5 orders to pick from, and a new archetype as well.

Clerics have undergone the most significant changes, and really took the majority of my post! There are two new archetypes, subdomains are gone, and domains themselves have gone through several changes. One or two domains, such as Liberation, are virtually unchanged, while others like Artifice and Knowledge are almost completely changed. I detail the difference in every power, and every domain spell in my guide.


I've done more work!

Here is the post covering Druids and Fighters.

Here is the post covering Hunters, Inquisitors and Kineticists.

Here is the post covering Magus and Monks.

There are several changes but also several new archetypes as well--possibly my favorite is the Sword Saint. If you wanted to play an unchained monk but wanted access to some of the old chained archetypes, now you can. A couple of racial-specific archetypes made it in, including Student of Stone and Spell Dancer.

If there's anything I missed or you think should be included, let me know.


I've done some more work and completed all classes and archetypes through the letter M.

Here is my post for Druids and Fighters.

Here is my post for Hunters, Inquisitors and Kineticists.

Here is my post for Magus and Monks.

There are some nice changes to some of the archetypes, and several are now available to the unchained monk. My favorite new one is the Sword Saint. A few racial archetypes made it in as well, such as Student of Stone and Spell Dancer. Worth taking a look.

If anyone sees mistakes, or want something else included, please let me know.

J


Belafon wrote:

Have not played the computer game, but that could happen in the TTRPG as well.

There isn't a really clear definition of what actions a contingency can interrupt, so it's up to the GM/author to decide. I played one PFS scenario where an enemy had a contingency to immediately teleport away if anyone attempted to attack him with a spell or weapon. Key word being "attempted." The author intended that as soon as Sneaky McRogue started stabbing the teleport would happen and he would be gone before he was aware of the rogue or the attack landed. Because magic.

lol... I know I played a PFS scenario hosted by the author who basically had no idea how DnD3.5 or PF mechanics worked but kept boasting about his writing skills. It was quite amusing. I got my chronicle, yay.

Really I think you have to stick to actual actions that happen rather than intent, targeting, or declarations of intended actions. Otherwise Contingency and Readied actions get rather nebulous.

With software you have to make decisions based on a defined state. That procedure has to be defined and coded, then tested and retested with the bulk of the coding. Inputs that don't meet that criteria (if allowed) essentially never trigger anything as there's no matching state. Expert software tries with matching probabilities of veracity but that is usually more complex than gaming software.


Working on the oracle class was so much work it took up an entire post. Between the changes to the mysteries, bonus spells, revelations and archetypes, you can likely see why.

In the video game there are nine curses, nine mysteries and seven archetypes, one of which is brand new. Between two and four revelations are removed for each mystery, and some mysteries have their entire bonus spell list changed. Take a close look for those wanting to play oracles.

Here is my latest post.

J


Finished my updates for the changes to the Paladin, Ranger, Rogue and Shaman classes. I'll let you guess which was more work!

Paladins translate pretty well as you might expect, and the game includes 15 mercies, which seems plentiful to me. While the vanilla paladin is one of the best, there still 7 archetypes that made it, including the new Divine Scion.

Rangers lose the Track, Wild Empathy, Woodland Stride, Swift Tracker, Hide in Plain Sight features. Admittedly most would not translate well to a video game, but HiPS would have been nice. There are six archetypes, including the new Espionage Expert and Nomad.

Rogues thankfully the unchained version, and quite a few of the talents and advanced talents are preserved. There are also seven archetypes including two new ones the Master of All and the Rowdy.

Shamans are generally preserved and translated well, though as usual the bonus spells for the 9 included spirits are significantly changed. There are also two new archetypes including the powerful Shadow and the new Spirit Hunter.

Click here for my Paladin/Ranger post.

Click here for my Rogue/Shaman post. Next up are the Skald and Sorcerer!

J


Alright, I've finished up the classes and archetypes section of the guide. I'll give you a big sexy You're Welcome and provide the links below:

My Skald and Slayer post

My Sorcerer post

My Warpriest and Witch post

My Wizard post

The next and final phase is updating everyone on the changes to the 13 Prestige Classes included in the video game. To be concluded!

J


Alright, I've concluded covering the rule changes to all of the classes and archetypes. Before I move on to the Prestige Classes I'll give out a big sexy You're Welcome and provide the links to my posts:

My Skald and Slayer post

My Sorcerer post

My Warpiest and Witch post

My Wizard post

Next up is documenting the changes to the 13 PrC's included in the video game. To be concluded!


Okay, I finished up all of the changes to the Prestige Classes, and was able to do it in only two relatively short pages.

Here is the first.

[url=https://sagaofthejasonite.wordpress.com/2022/03/24/wrath-of-the-righteous-prestige-classes-part-2/Here is the second.[/url]

If there is anything else folks would like, let me know. My posts are the only ones on the internet I've ever found that cover the changes from the tabletop to the video game.

J


Whoops, here is the corrected link:

Here is the second.

J


At the risk of necroing my thread, I've started posting some power builds for those wanting to excel in the harder difficulties of WotR.

The first is a great one for those who want to make the best use of the Angel Mythic path, the Angel Oracle.

J


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I've created more power builds.

For those interested in an arcane caster, check my Lich Wizard build

For those wanting to know how to make the best use your party, here is my post regarding it

This naturally leads to my next build, which is the perfect complement to those party members, utilizing the Trickster mythic path

Finally, the strongest martial build in the game, capable of inflicting 40k worth of damage. It's most suited for the Demon mythic path, but ther is a version for the Trickster path also.

I've got one or two more in mind as well, including those wanting to build toward the Azata mythic path, a magus build, and a shield bashing build with the most highly enchanted item in the entire game.

J


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For my final builds, all of which are unfair viable:

I've got two variations on rogue builds, one of which uses the new archetype for the game.

I also put together a great druid shapeshifter build. There is also a more powerful variation that uses the Demon mythic path instead of Angel if people are interested.

Last but not least, I've put two variations of archer builds. Archers are awesome, and I saved it for last because there are several archer NPCs you can pick up. Still, I played an archer on my first playthrough and I loved it, so here are two good choices.

I've been playing around with a nice kineticist build, as well as a shadow shaman and a warpriest build, so if requested I can put that together too.

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